Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Nineteen67]

3 years 7M seems pretty much in line with what bis comps are making

Stamkos - upcoming we see what he takes

Kopitar - 4 years older and got 2 years 7M

Malkin - 5 years older and got 4 years 6.25M

Giroux - 2 years older and got 3 years 6.5M

Nik Backstrom - signed at 32 but got 5 years and 9.2M

Even if you have tavares as the worse of that group at and of his current deal, if hes still putting 60-70 pts he will find himself valued at 6M-7M on 3 year deal.

He might take less if he wants to stay in toronto and turn that to 4.5-5M for 2 years but cant see it any less than that

Great examples of what they should avoid. Those teams, other than Ottawa, are rewarding success.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah Im not sure if I want JT back at 7M for 3 years

But I just dont know who our 2C would be then if hes gone

Cowan and Minten dont project to be good 2Cs (good 3C more likely) and both are 3+ years out.

Maybe we make a trade in 2024-2025 to get a 2C and then see if JT is open to 2 years at 4.5M as a winger

Well, two years at 4.5M sounds great! Three years at 7M sounds risky to put it mildly.

Great examples of what they should avoid. Those teams, other than Ottawa, are rewarding success.

Yeah I was thinking the same. I can't be bothered to go through them all to see if they're earning their keep but yeah, gotta have success before rewarding and we're still working on that part of things. I think Malkin is earning his keep but then, JT and Malkin aren't on the same tier anyway.

 

[therealkoho]

They’re thinking the cap is going up significantly in the next few years and they’re planning around that expectations. In this environment there’s no guarantee in a gate driven league, however they may as well assume it does.
Having said that, if they can sign Nylander for a reasonable(9-9.5) AAV then they’ll a lot of cap space in two years and the core is still young enough to build around.
If he doesn’t, no loss, they can trade him and acquire some assets to go along with his freed up cap hit.

predicting the future is kind of like time travel, no?

 

[therealkoho]

Oh. crap. Cue the emotionally distraught examples of the Dunning Kruger effect. The crap might fly with the casual fans but anyone with a clue can spot the lacking grasp of the game.

you may have missed the point I was illuminating, but whatevs s'all good i suppose

 

[Mess]

Agreed but that is the hand Tre has been dealt. Personally I am not sold on Nylander being a $9m player. And on a team with 3 forwards making $33+m, he's the one who will be thrown overboard.

Process of elimination with the other 3 having full NMC that makes Nylander the only one of the core 4 really available to trade if the right deal came along.

 

[Nineteen67]

predicting the future is kind of like time travel, no?

There are reasonable predictors they can use to forecast and budget, but in a gate driven league there are few barriers that they’d better consider.

 

[therealkoho]

I was all for signing Tavares for $10-10.5m but how do you give him $11m and following it up by giving Nylander, Matthews and Marner $30m, all the while knowing you have that 3rd year of Marleau to dump? Clearly he was not thinking one move ahead. The first for Marleau turning into Jarvis added salt to the wound for a GM in training. Shanny deserves full blame.

I'm thinking that Kyle was thinking there would be a line-up of GM's ready and anxious to polish their own star by taking on a burnt out winger making 5m too much and actually part with assets to do it, but then again it was Kyle and they may have realized that if they asked politely, Kyle just might give them a nice fat 1st round pick for helping him out of a web he helped to create. The contract was also buy-out proof if I recall.

 

[Notsince67]

you may have missed the point I was illuminating, but whatevs s'all good i suppose

No...I got it. Was just hoping it wasn't triggering to the kabal of misery. I wasn't directing anything your way

 

[therealkoho]

Agreed but that is the hand Tre has been dealt. Personally I am not sold on Nylander being a $9m player. And on a team with 3 forwards making $33+m, he's the one who will be thrown overboard.

If they look hard enough I'm sure they'd find a GM willing to go the limit with will to resign him. Playing chicken with Willie didn't work the first time around. it aint going to work now!

All the talk of not getting anything back is silly, firstly he won't go anywhere that won't pay him, secondly even though there's 21 teams he can't say no to, he will still have preferred destination(s). Among those places I'm sure there is one that see's Willie as deserving of whatever his ask is, or at least something reasonably close.

So it's just a matter of sussing out that team and that GM and working out an acquisition that gives the Leafs something they really need, which is a real live top 4 guy.

Someplace like St Lou or Dallas. Parayko or Lindell maybe

 

[ToneDog]

If they look hard enough I'm sure they'd find a GM willing to go the limit with will to resign him. Playing chicken with Willie didn't work the first time around. it aint going to work now!

All the talk of not getting anything back is silly, firstly he won't go anywhere that won't pay him, secondly even though there's 21 teams he can't say no to, he will still have preferred destination(s). Among those places I'm sure there is one that see's Willie as deserving of whatever his ask is, or at least something reasonably close.

So it's just a matter of sussing out that team and that GM and working out an acquisition that gives the Leafs something they really need, which is a real live top 4 guy.

Someplace like St Lou or Dallas. Parayko or Lindell maybe

PLD supposedly was only wanting to go to MTL but the Jets managed to find a place he would extend and got a nice return. No reason why Tre can't make a similar trade for Nylander if Willie does not come down from his $10+m ask.

 

[ShaneFalco]

PLD supposedly was only wanting to go to MTL but the Jets managed to find a place he would extend and got a nice return. No reason why Tre can't make a similar trade for Nylander if Willie does not come down from his $10+m ask.

The team has holes
At some point someone has to to stand firm with the mercenaries
I think they keep MM (I would rather trade him tbh) but I think Willy needs to go

 

[34]

Highly unlikely a contract extension in Toronto gets done with Nylander. Looks like he has his heels firmly dug in at $10M + a season. The Leafs just don’t have the cap. I also think he does not care where he plays, the money means more to him. He would rather play on the worst team in the nhl and make $11M a season than a contender at $9M aav.

 

[Notsince67]

Highly unlikely a contract extension in Toronto gets done with Nylander. Looks like he has his heels firmly dug in at $10M + a season. The Leafs just don’t have the cap. I also think he does not care where he plays, the money means more to him. He would rather play on the worst team in the nhl and make $11M a season than a contender at $9M aav.

If that is the difference, I don't blame him.

 

[Sypher04]

Highly unlikely a contract extension in Toronto gets done with Nylander. Looks like he has his heels firmly dug in at $10M + a season. The Leafs just don’t have the cap. I also think he does not care where he plays, the money means more to him. He would rather play on the worst team in the nhl and make $11M a season than a contender at $9M aav.

Way too early in the process and way too not involved to make such an assessment.

I’d say the fact we didn’t trade him this off-season despite knowing his ask indicates pretty clearly that management thinks they can find common ground for a deal

 

[Menzinger]

Way too early in the process and way too not involved to make such an assessment.

I’d say the fact we didn’t trade him this off-season despite knowing his ask indicates pretty clearly that management thinks they can find common ground for a deal

Yep. I'm surprised there's as much speculation from some here, despite the fact the obvious time to trade the guy if that was the plan was the draft.

We can even circle back to those Chris Johnson reports following Dubas' firing that Shannys plan was to continue to bet in the core he helped build himself.

As mentioned earlier I think we'll see a Nylander extension sometime in the Nov-March range. Similar to what happened with Pasta last season (for obviously a much lower aav)

 

[hamzarocks]

Way too early in the process and way too not involved to make such an assessment.

I’d say the fact we didn’t trade him this off-season despite knowing his ask indicates pretty clearly that management thinks they can find common ground for a deal

Treliving has a poor history of letting UFAs walk

He let Gaudreau walk after playing out his final year

He basically trapped himself by holding Tkachuk until 1 year before UFA and tkachuk not willing to extend long term

The leafs under Shanny (with both Lou and dubas) also have done way to many own rentals

2018: Bozak, JVR, Komorov
2019: Gardiner
2020: Andersen
2021: Hyman
2022: Campbell
2023: Bunting

There is merit to be concerned that Shanny/Treliving blow this.

They should either have a contract done by early season(first 5-8 games) or this is likely going tbe distance and Nylander will wait until after his years done, and he can see the type of year hes had and guage interest internally with leafs and externally as a UFA

We didnt move him whe we could/should have near the draft, so a trade seems unlikely.

The longer this extends into fall, the more concerned we should become

 

[ACC1224]

Treliving has a poor history of letting UFAs walk

He let Gaudreau walk after playing out his final year

He basically trapped himself by holding Tkachuk until 1 year before UFA and tkachuk not willing to extend long term

The leafs under Shanny (with both Lou and dubas) also have done way to many own rentals

2018: Bozak, JVR, Komorov
2019: Gardiner
2020: Andersen
2021: Hyman
2022: Campbell
2023: Bunting

There is merit to be concerned that Shanny/Treliving blow this.

They should either have a contract done by early season(first 5-8 games) or this is likely going tbe distance and Nylander will wait until after his years done, and he can see the type of year hes had and guage interest internally with leafs and externally as a UFA

We didnt move him whe we could/should have near the draft, so a trade seems unlikely.

The longer this extends into fall, the more concerned we should become

Doesn’t seem too out of the ordinary for good teams.

 

[authentic]

Calgary might not be as nice a city as T.O. and have a hard time attracting FA but T.O has its huge downfalls as well. Some of the worst taxes in the league, a ton of media and fan exposure, with having some terrible media members like Simmons and a large and very unruly fan base at times.

A lot of the terrible contracts in Calgary are similar to the way Lou signs players. He gives out long term deals at high tickets to older guys who are typically power forwards and grinders that don't age well.

He signed a 31 yr old Brouwer to a 4 yr x 4.5M deal, coming off a 39 pt season.

James Neal, another 31 yr old signed to 5.75M x5, coming off a couple 40+pt seasons.

Signed a 31 yr old Kadri to a 7 yr contract paying him 7M til he's 38.

Signed a 29 yr old Coleman to a 6 yr deal paying him 4.9M til he's 35 and has never even had 40 pts.

Huberdeau is going to be making 10.5M til he's 38 yrs old.

Doesn't matter what the situation is in Calgary, these are terrible contracts with a lack of foresight. My hope is that he has learned from it and that Shanny doesn't allow these kinds of signings.

Exactly. What are all the contracts Dubas made that are worse than those? Someone brought up Marleau but wasn't that Lou who signed him?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Exactly. What are all the contracts Dubas made that are worse than those? Someone brought up Marleau but wasn't that Lou who signed him?

IMO the only truly bad contract Dubas is responsible for is Marner. First he backed himself into a corner by publicly saying he wanted to get him signed quickly to avoid the drama that happened with Nylander (really dumb going public with that thought), and the result was that atrocious contract.

People whine about the Tavares contract, but at the time almost everyone was thrilled we signed him.

Other than that, his signings seem fine to me, at least nothing else immediately comes to mind.

 

[Evilhomer]

Yep. I'm surprised there's as much speculation from some here, despite the fact the obvious time to trade the guy if that was the plan was the draft.

We can even circle back to those Chris Johnson reports following Dubas' firing that Shannys plan was to continue to bet in the core he helped build himself.

As mentioned earlier I think we'll see a Nylander extension sometime in the Nov-March range. Similar to what happened with Pasta last season (for obviously a much lower aav)

I think there is virtually no chance Nylander will be traded. They are clearly going to sign him, and the number will not be as scary as some people think. He'll get somewhere between 9 and 9.5, and it will be good value for the team.

The longer this extends into fall, the more concerned we should become

There is no reason at all to be concerned. The longer it extends, the more likely Toronto will simply give him the number that he wants (and it won't be $10 per season).

 

[Gabriel426]

Great examples of what they should avoid. Those teams, other than Ottawa, are rewarding success.

Or they just offer a front load heavy 6 yrs contract to lower the AVV to JT with the intention that he will retire before the end of that contract

 

[Gabriel426]

IMO the only truly bad contract Dubas is responsible for is Marner. First he backed himself into a corner by publicly saying he wanted to get him signed quickly to avoid the drama that happened with Nylander (really dumb going public with that thought), and the result was that atrocious contract.

People whine about the Tavares contract, but at the time almost everyone was thrilled we signed him.

Other than that, his signings seem fine to me, at least nothing else immediately comes to mind.

I was watching Season 2 of the Winning Time, the show about the Lakers Dynasty. When Buss said he is offering those extension to Norms and Cooper before the UFA era begin the NBA. When he was challenged about the high salary numbers by West and he just said, we will look like genius when the UFA eras hit bc players will get more. I am paraphrasing. I could not help but think Dubas or Shanny or both said the same thing a few years ago.

 

[Nineteen67]

Or they just offer a front load heavy 6 yrs contract to lower the AVV to JT with the intention that he will retire before the end of that contract

Why? If they’re gung-ho on giving him money, pay him to coach some Marlies they intend to trade.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Knies Matthews Marner
Bertuzzi Tavares Domi
Holmberg Kampf Nylander

Good luck getting over 8m Willy.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

IMO the only truly bad contract Dubas is responsible for is Marner. First he backed himself into a corner by publicly saying he wanted to get him signed quickly to avoid the drama that happened with Nylander (really dumb going public with that thought), and the result was that atrocious contract.

People whine about the Tavares contract, but at the time almost everyone was thrilled we signed him.

Other than that, his signings seem fine to me, at least nothing else immediately comes to mind.

I would add the Mrazek contract. Other than that, most of Dubas' signings were short term, on cheap deals.