Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[ToneDog]

... With another team.

At the right number, I'd keep him. I doubt he wants to leave at this stage in his life and he will give us that IMO.

 

[Nineteen67]

At the right number, I'd keep him. I doubt he wants to leave at this stage in his life and he will give us that IMO.

In two yrs is he an 800k PP only winger?

 

[ToneDog]

In two yrs is he an 800k PP only winger?

Possible but probably not. He should make a pretty good #3LW at the right price.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

based on the old guy put us under cap hell and the new guy has only made financially reasonable signings and contracts. not counting the reaves deal, but even then it pales in comparison to some of the inflated numbers dubas gave out.

Dubas had some great moments as GM, but the way he handled the big contracts was fukking atrocious. Ya i think it's safe to say Treliving will be an improvment in that aspect alone.

People really need to look at Tree's contract history in Calgary before making these claims.

 

[ACC1224]

People really need to look at Tree's contract history in Calgary before making these claims.

Different environment, different struggles.
Personally, I'll judge him on what he does here.

 

[Sypher04]

Yes the core. They have shown they cannot rise to the important games.
Just rerunning them over and over is a waste of what was the biggest chance the Leafs have had in decades.
without the crazy 11 million given to Tavares I would be on board with keeping the 3 of them but that signing alone has killed at least 5 years of what could have been a great rebuild

To me getting rid of Nylander for what will be a rental return isn’t overly attractive and is unlikely to make us better. The other guys were never moving.

I think we all agree the Tavares deal at this point is a problem. I definitely get not liking it but I think we need to make this year and next work. Losing Nylander now to keep Tavares would be a huge failure imo.

We can still contend those 2 years but we’re going to have to be very smart

 

[Notsince67]

To me getting rid of Nylander for what will be a rental return isn’t overly attractive and is unlikely to make us better. The other guys were never moving.

I think we all agree the Tavares deal at this point is a problem. I definitely get not liking it but I think we need to make this year and next work. Losing Nylander now to keep Tavares would be a huge failure imo.

We can still contend those 2 years but we’re going to have to be very smart

I saw a report that the Leafs are pursuing Kane. Love it or hate it, I cannot see the Leafs picking him up without getting rid of Willy. Right winger who will definitely cost more in cap than a Brodie. That said, it does open up a possibility for a youthful package for the next few years.
Not saying this is the right thing to do but likely the most optimistic should a trade of Willy be inevitable.

 

[ToneDog]

To me getting rid of Nylander for what will be a rental return isn’t overly attractive and is unlikely to make us better. The other guys were never moving.

I think we all agree the Tavares deal at this point is a problem. I definitely get not liking it but I think we need to make this year and next work. Losing Nylander now to keep Tavares would be a huge failure imo.

We can still contend those 2 years but we’re going to have to be very smart

Agreed but that is the hand Tre has been dealt. Personally I am not sold on Nylander being a $9m player. And on a team with 3 forwards making $33+m, he's the one who will be thrown overboard.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Different environment, different struggles.
Personally, I'll judge him on what he does here.

Calgary might not be as nice a city as T.O. and have a hard time attracting FA but T.O has its huge downfalls as well. Some of the worst taxes in the league, a ton of media and fan exposure, with having some terrible media members like Simmons and a large and very unruly fan base at times.

A lot of the terrible contracts in Calgary are similar to the way Lou signs players. He gives out long term deals at high tickets to older guys who are typically power forwards and grinders that don't age well.

He signed a 31 yr old Brouwer to a 4 yr x 4.5M deal, coming off a 39 pt season.

James Neal, another 31 yr old signed to 5.75M x5, coming off a couple 40+pt seasons.

Signed a 31 yr old Kadri to a 7 yr contract paying him 7M til he's 38.

Signed a 29 yr old Coleman to a 6 yr deal paying him 4.9M til he's 35 and has never even had 40 pts.

Huberdeau is going to be making 10.5M til he's 38 yrs old.

Doesn't matter what the situation is in Calgary, these are terrible contracts with a lack of foresight. My hope is that he has learned from it and that Shanny doesn't allow these kinds of signings.

 

[Racer88]

Then the mandate is likely coming from above Treliving.

Unfortunately it is starting to look like it. Shanny may ultimately take the blame if this thing continues to flame out at playoff time

 

[notDatsyuk]

... With another team.

Tavares will definitely make less next time, if there is a next time.

He could probably get as much a 4 or even 5 for a couple of years on another team, but he wants to stay here.

Best thing all round would be for him to retire as a Leaf in two years, and get hired as something - maybe a faceoff coach.

He retires as a Leaf, stays in Toronto, and might get his name on the cup, while simultaneously freeing up the 'C' and $11M of cap.

 

[Racer88]

To me getting rid of Nylander for what will be a rental return isn’t overly attractive and is unlikely to make us better. The other guys were never moving.

I think we all agree the Tavares deal at this point is a problem. I definitely get not liking it but I think we need to make this year and next work. Losing Nylander now to keep Tavares would be a huge failure imo.

We can still contend those 2 years but we’re going to have to be very smart

I agree with you on this. That is my main frustration is how badly Dubas and Shanny have screwed this once in a lifetime opportunity.a few years ago was the time to trade either Marner or Willy. With some term on their contracts they would have netted a decent return and a better chance for the Leafs going forward

 

[ACC1224]

Calgary might not be as nice a city as T.O. and have a hard time attracting FA but T.O has its huge downfalls as well. Some of the worst taxes in the league, a ton of media and fan exposure, with having some terrible media members like Simmons and a large and very unruly fan base at times.

A lot of the terrible contracts in Calgary are similar to the way Lou signs players. He gives out long term deals at high tickets to older guys who are typically power forwards and grinders that don't age well.

He signed a 31 yr old Brouwer to a 4 yr x 4.5M deal, coming off a 39 pt season.

James Neal, another 31 yr old signed to 5.75M x5, coming off a couple 40+pt seasons.

Signed a 31 yr old Kadri to a 7 yr contract paying him 7M til he's 38.

Signed a 29 yr old Coleman to a 6 yr deal paying him 4.9M til he's 35 and has never even had 40 pts.

Huberdeau is going to be making 10.5M til he's 38 yrs old.

Doesn't matter what the situation is in Calgary, these are terrible contracts with a lack of foresight. My hope is that he has learned from it and that Shanny doesn't allow these kinds of signings.

Like I said, I'll judge on what he does here.
If Shanahan is making the decisions on personnel they are in big trouble anyway. I don't that's the case though.

Tavares will definitely make less next time, if there is a next time.

He could probably get as much a 4 or even 5 for a couple of years on another team, but he wants to stay here.

Best thing all round would be for him to retire as a Leaf in two years, and get hired as something - maybe a faceoff coach.

He retires as a Leaf, stays in Toronto, and might get his name on the cup, while simultaneously freeing up the 'C' and $11M of cap.

I'd expect 3/4 years at 6 or 7 a year. He's not going anywhere for awhile, IMO.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'd expect 3/4 years at 6 or 7 a year. He's not going anywhere for awhile, IMO.

Two years from now he'll probably be no more than a third liner (here if not elsewhere), and likely the slowest one. If he stays here, is a 3C or 3LW worth $6M, and can we afford it?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I saw a report that the Leafs are pursuing Kane. Love it or hate it, I cannot see the Leafs picking him up without getting rid of Willy. Right winger who will definitely cost more in cap than a Brodie. That said, it does open up a possibility for a youthful package for the next few years.
Not saying this is the right thing to do but likely the most optimistic should a trade of Willy be inevitable.

I believe you're absolutely correct - only way to free up cap for Kane is to get rid of Nylander.

It's an interesting idea for sure, use the cap space for Kane instead, and we add whatever assets we get back for Nylander. The big question is Kane's health but if he's healthy, there's lots to like about this IMO, and I say that as a huge fan of Nylander.

I'd expect 3/4 years at 6 or 7 a year. He's not going anywhere for awhile, IMO.

Good think you're not the GM. Tavares will be 35 when his next contract kicks in, signing him for that long for that kind of cap hit seems suicidal.

 

[hamzarocks]

I believe you're absolutely correct - only way to free up cap for Kane is to get rid of Nylander.

It's an interesting idea for sure, use the cap space for Kane instead, and we add whatever assets we get back for Nylander. The big question is Kane's health but if he's healthy, there's lots to like about this IMO, and I say that as a huge fan of Nylander.


Good think you're not the GM. Tavares will be 35 when his next contract kicks in, signing him for that long for that kind of cap hit seems suicidal.

3 years 7M seems pretty much in line with what bis comps are making

Stamkos - upcoming we see what he takes

Kopitar - 4 years older and got 2 years 7M

Malkin - 5 years older and got 4 years 6.25M

Giroux - 2 years older and got 3 years 6.5M

Nik Backstrom - signed at 32 but got 5 years and 9.2M

Even if you have tavares as the worse of that group at and of his current deal, if hes still putting 60-70 pts he will find himself valued at 6M-7M on 3 year deal.

He might take less if he wants to stay in toronto and turn that to 4.5-5M for 2 years but cant see it any less than that

 

[Gary Nylund]

3 years 7M seems pretty much in line with what bis comps are making

Stamkos - upcoming we see what he takes

Kopitar - 4 years older and got 2 years 7M

Malkin - 5 years older and got 4 years 6.25M

Giroux - 2 years older and got 3 years 6.5M

Nik Backstrom - signed at 32 but got 5 years and 9.2M

Even if you have tavares as the worse of that group at and of his current deal, if hes still putting 60-70 pts he will find himself valued at 6M-7M on 3 year deal.

He might take less if he wants to stay in toronto and turn that to 4.5-5M for 2 years but cant see it any less than that

Um, Kopitar signed an 8 year deal when he was 29, don't see how this is comparable to signing JT at age 35.

 

[hamzarocks]

Um, Kopitar signed an 8 year deal when he was 29, don't see how this is comparable to signing JT at age 35.

His upcoming current deal i mean,

He extended for 2 years at 7M beginning in 2024-2025 (so age 38 season I think)

 

[ACC1224]

Two years from now he'll probably be no more than a third liner (here if not elsewhere), and likely the slowest one. If he stays here, is a 3C or 3LW worth $6M, and can we afford it?

Obviously, things can change in a few seasons but if he continues to put up points he's going to still get paid and they'll make it work.

3 years 7M seems pretty much in line with what bis comps are making

Stamkos - upcoming we see what he takes

Kopitar - 4 years older and got 2 years 7M

Malkin - 5 years older and got 4 years 6.25M

Giroux - 2 years older and got 3 years 6.5M

Nik Backstrom - signed at 32 but got 5 years and 9.2M

Even if you have tavares as the worse of that group at and of his current deal, if hes still putting 60-70 pts he will find himself valued at 6M-7M on 3 year deal.

He might take less if he wants to stay in toronto and turn that to 4.5-5M for 2 years but cant see it any less than that

Makes sense to me.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Unfortunately it is starting to look like it. Shanny may ultimately take the blame if this thing continues to flame out at playoff time

I see no evidence that ownership gives a shit.

If they did they would have pushed for major changes already by now.

 

[Jojalu]

I agree with you on this. That is my main frustration is how badly Dubas and Shanny have screwed this once in a lifetime opportunity.a few years ago was the time to trade either Marner or Willy. With some term on their contracts they would have netted a decent return and a better chance for the Leafs going forward

If the core is indeed the problem, and they lack the desire or fortitude to win, how is it a once in a lifetime opportunity?

The D was improved from the time they all arrived, they tried a bunch of different strategies, all ended in the same result.

So was it media and fan hysteria? How should or could the Leafs win anything if the core is the issue?

 

[Racer88]

If the core is indeed the problem, and they lack the desire or fortitude to win, how is it a once in a lifetime opportunity?

The D was improved from the time they all arrived, they tried a bunch of different strategies, all ended in the same result.

So was it media and fan hysteria? How should or could the Leafs win anything if the core is the issue

They could have used some of the core as assets to get skilled and motivated replacement.
Something needed to be done when it became obvious that these guys couldn’t get it done, and it was not so here we are

 

[Jojalu]

They could have used some of the core as assets to get skilled and motivated replacement.
Something needed to be done when it became obvious that these guys couldn’t get it done, and it was not so here we are

Fair enough!

 

[Gary Nylund]

His upcoming current deal i mean,

He extended for 2 years at 7M beginning in 2024-2025 (so age 38 season I think)

Ah Ok, got it. We'll see how that goes, signing players that old for that kind of money seems awfully risky. I mean other teams are doing it OK, that doesn't mean it's a good idea as teams do a lot of dumb shit. I mean JT is pretty slow as it is, hard to imagine him 2 years from now, never mind signing him to term at that point.

 

[hamzarocks]

Ah Ok, got it. We'll see how that goes, signing players that old for that kind of money seems awfully risky. I mean other teams are doing it OK, that doesn't mean it's a good idea as teams do a lot of dumb shit. I mean JT is pretty slow as it is, hard to imagine him 2 years from now, never mind signing him to term at that point.

Yeah Im not sure if I want JT back at 7M for 3 years

But I just dont know who our 2C would be then if hes gone

Cowan and Minten dont project to be good 2Cs (good 3C more likely) and both are 3+ years out.

Maybe we make a trade in 2024-2025 to get a 2C and then see if JT is open to 2 years at 4.5M as a winger