Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Confucius]

Why does rielly come up at all his contract already kicced in money off the books doesn’t need to be allocated to him and I believe we can win paying those 3

4 guys will make 40 million as long as Mathews is here. Just -pointed out it doesn’t matter who the 4 are

 

[-DeMo-]

It sounds like you worked really hard to find a way to say marners play making is better than nylanders I would argue that the fact nylander is a way better scorer and a slightly worse passer means nylanders actually the better playmaker let that marinate …most of the big plays to tie or win come off nylanders stic usually not marners dating bac to last year

that's because when Marner plays well were already winning going into the third.

I'll edit to add again over the last two years Marner is 9 goals behind Nylander vs Nylander is 38 assist behind Marner

 

[ToneDog]

so your taking a 26 game sample vs the whole career as to why Nylander is on Marner's level or better.

Nylander might be an Elite skater from using his edges and puck protection. but he's not elite at anything else. his top speed is not elite. he was 47th in assist last year, he also only broke 40 goals for the first time last year. only hit 30 goals 3 times. he's not an elite playmaker or goal scorer. he's got 9 more goals then Marner has in the previous 2 season's. Marner is closer to Nylanders goal scoring then Nylander is to Marner's playmaking.

Edit: I also want to point out that you acknowledged Marner's superior defensive game over Nylanders so to be on Marner's level he needs to exceed that of Marner's offensive game in order to be as good.

I am using a 26 game sample size, plus the fact that Willie has been improving yearly to the point that he is now a 40+ goal/87 point forward. I then ask myself, is this a mirage and if not, will Willie continue to grow? If the answer is "yes", then I lean towards Willie.

 

[arso40]

4 guys will make 40 million as long as Mathews is here. Just -pointed out it doesn’t matter who the 4 are

Much rather 3 fwd 1 d then 4 forwards

 

[ACC1224]

Don't get all this back and forth, Nylander and Marner will both be Leafs for a long time. No reason why they shouldn't be.

 

[arso40]

that's because when Marner plays well were already winning going into the third.

And the only reason that is is because you have 11 mil forward that has to produce nylanders produced the whole year if marner did that we would a won a ton more games you don’t reward him for showing up he’s expected to based off pay like call a spade a spade my friend I’m glad we have them both but kill the narrative your trying to create I don’t take marner over nylander period #playoffs no shinny

 

[-DeMo-]

I am using a 26 game sample size, plus the fact that Willie has been improving yearly to the point that he is now a 40+ goal/87 point forward. I then ask myself, is this a mirage and if not, will Willie continue to grow? If the answer is "yes", then I lean towards Willie.

but that 87 point guy is not on Marner's level who has produced 90+ in the last 3 full season's he's played and in the other two part season's he was still on pace for 90+ points so willie still needs to grow to be on Marner's level.

willie is also 27 will be 28 May 1st if he signs a retirement deal at 8 years will he contiinue to grow at that age or have the same level of commentment once he gets his pay day?

Edit; I want to add that I think Nylander is a great player and I want him signed. I just don't think he's on Marner's level as a player.

 

[Stephen]

Don't get all this back and forth, Nylander and Marner will both be Leafs for a long time. No reason why they shouldn't be.

For better or for worse that’s probably the answer. The cap increase will cover the bulk of the Nylander and Matthews raises. The next cap increase probably covers Marner’s.

And all the structural re-jigging is probably covered in a Tavares pay cut if he’s still here and the expiry of the Brodie, Samsonov, Bertuzzi, Domi contracts.

 

[arso40]

but that 87 point guy is not on Marner's level who has produced 90+ in the last 3 full season's he's played and in the other two part season's he was still on pace for 90+ points so willie still needs to grow to be on Marner's level.

willie is also 27 will be 28 May 1st if he signs a retirement deal at 8 years will he contiinue to grow at that age or have the same level of commentment once he gets his pay day?

Do you notice the discrepancy between matthews and Tavares ? Don’t listen to interviews they’re not the same kinda player nor calibre so if marners giving every advantage to succeed how do you hold it against willie we’ve watched for 7 going on 8 years where nylander got scraps left by marner willies a success story of dedication and perseverance and your doing this my friend

 

[-DeMo-]

Do you notice the discrepancy between matthews and marner ? Don’t listen to interviews they’re not the same kinda player nor calibre so if marners giving every advantage to succeed how do you hold it against willie we’ve watched for 7 going on 8 years where nylander got scraps left by marner willies a success story of dedication and perseverance and your doing this my friend

just because I think Marner is the better player doesn't mean I'm taking anything away from Nylander. I havent said a single negative thought about Nylander in this discussion.

even my point about his age is that at a certain age growing will stop simply because that's what happens around 28-30 and then it becomes a struggle to hold on as best you can for as long as you can. this is just father time.

 

[ToneDog]

but that 87 point guy is not on Marner's level who has produced 90+ in the last 3 full season's he's played and in the other two part season's he was still on pace for 90+ points so willie still needs to grow to be on Marner's level.

willie is also 27 will be 28 May 1st if he signs a retirement deal at 8 years will he contiinue to grow at that age or have the same level of commentment once he gets his pay day?

Edit; I want to add that I think Nylander is a great player and I want him signed. I just don't think he's on Marner's level as a player.

That is the $64,000,000 question.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

I don't think he can make less then Marner. They are at least equal now.

Marner is overpaid. We can't/shouldn't continue using those shitty contracts as a benchmark going forward. We need to move away from those overly generous, in both term and cap hit, deals and establish a more reasonable pay scale.
It just doesn't work and I don't need another 5+ year sample size to hammer that fact home.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Toronto tax and whatever canada screwes the salary cap they sshould have a HIGHER cap to take into acccount the tax IMPLICATIONS!

 

[arso40]

just because I think Marner is the better player doesn't mean I'm taking anything away from Nylander. I havent said a single negative thought about Nylander in this discussion.

even my point about his age is that at a certain age growing will stop simply because that's what happens around 28-30 and then it becomes a struggle to hold on as best you can for as long as you can. this is just father time.

Fair enough but there one year apart and marners kinda hit a wall he was soo good out the gate that I haven’t really seen improvement in his game at all and the one area we should have seen growth is his body and not even that so I find it hard to say he’s better …different sure but better?not so sure

 

[ACC1224]

Fair enough but there one year apart and marners kinda hit a wall he was soo good out the gate that I haven’t really seen improvement in his game at all and the one area we should have seen growth is his body and not even that so I find it hard to say he’s better …different sure but better?not so sure

You need to look closer if you haven't seen growth in either of those areas.

 

[arso40]

Marner is overpaid. We can't/shouldn't continue using those shitty contracts as a benchmark going forward. We need to move away from those overly generous, in both term and cap hit, deals and establish a more reasonable pay scale.
It just doesn't work and I don't need another 5+ year sample size to hammer that fact home.

So what’s marners next deal look like then???

 

[arso40]

You need to look closer if you haven't seen growth in either of those areas.

Lol where do tell and please don’t say pk lol in the last 2+ years he looks like he hit a wall

 

[-DeMo-]

Fair enough but there one year apart and marners kinda hit a wall he was soo good out the gate that I haven’t really seen improvement in his game at all and the one area we should have seen growth is his body and not even that so I find it hard to say he’s better …different sure but better?not so sure

I definitely agree with you in terms of the two players development. Marner more hit the ground running and we havent really seen from an overall production level accept for his goal totals really improving year over year like Nylander has. but I just feel offensively Nylander is just slightly below Marner's level still at this point, so I don't personally believe Nylander deserves what Marner got on his current deal.

the problem may lie in what other teams are willing to pay for Nylander. if someone gives him 12-13 I don't know if I could go that high. I think right around that 10 mark I would do give or take a little bit.

 

[arso40]

I definitely agree with you in terms of the two players development. Marner more hit the ground running and we havent really seen from an overall production level accept for his goal totals really improving year over year like Nylander has. but I just feel offensively Nylander is just slightly below Marner's level still at this point, so I don't personally believe Nylander deserves what Marner got on his current deal.

the problem may lie in what other teams are willing to pay for Nylander. if someone gives him 12-13 I don't know if I could go that high. I think right around that 10 mark I would do give or take a little bit.

But why do you think that?? Honestly

I definitely agree with you in terms of the two players development. Marner more hit the ground running and we havent really seen from an overall production level accept for his goal totals really improving year over year like Nylander has. but I just feel offensively Nylander is just slightly below Marner's level still at this point, so I don't personally believe Nylander deserves what Marner got on his current deal.

the problem may lie in what other teams are willing to pay for Nylander. if someone gives him 12-13 I don't know if I could go that high. I think right around that 10 mark I would do give or take a little bit.

Hold on so your saying rfa marners better than willie now?I will wait for your reply before I respond

 

[ACC1224]

Lol where do tell and please don’t say pk lol in the last 2+ years he looks like he hit a wall

He's not sporting the scrawny little boy body anymore and his two way game has improved every year since he's been drafted.

 

[arso40]

He's not sporting the scrawny little boy body anymore and his two way game has improved every year since he's been drafted.

I would argue that the last 2+ years that is not true how much is he up to now?

 

[Notsince67]

Every year there is an argument made that Nylander is better than Marner. Every year I get in the middle of it. This year, I'd just like to pass out some helium baloons so you kids can have fun with the mickey mouse voices. Enjoy...

 

[-DeMo-]

But why do you think that?? Honestly


Hold on so your saying rfa marners better than willie now?I will wait for your reply before I respond

was just talking about his overall production when comparing him to his 3rd NHL season that would technically be a career high for Nylander if he matched Marner's numbers that year.

but yea I think Marner's improved his goal scoring since then has back to back 30 goal campaigns and his defensive game has taken big leaps forward. even if you think Marner has plateaued in the last 2 years with 99 and 97 point campaigns Nylander has to grow to meet those totals.

my original point was that in his 3rd season prior to signing his ELC he hit the 90+ point mark and in terms of overall production it's basically stayed the same throughout his career. maybe this is the year Nylander joins him in the 90's or higher we will see but 26 games doesn't prove he is.

I would argue that the last 2+ years that is not true how much is he up to now?

maybe I'm reading this incorrectly but it seems your making a reference to body getting bigger but being bigger and bulkier isn't always better especially for someone of Marner's build. when your game is built around being quick and elusive being bigger isn't better

also I will add that when you sign an RFA contract 3 years into the league it's expected that your play will get better and better so when Marner puts up 94 points in his 3rd season it's probably expected there to be growth and produce at an higher level. he hasn't so that deal to me wasn't for a 90 point forward but for someone better. but it's hard to compare RFA vs UFA imo

 

[arso40]

Every year there is an argument made that Nylander is better than Marner. Every year I get in the middle of it. This year, I'd just like to pass out some helium baloons so you kids can have fun with the mickey mouse voices. Enjoy...

The argument is not if nylanders better but if marners better lol but with seriousness nylander gets slighted every year let’s not make it look the other way I’m just trying to understand if my friend is suggesting that willies not worth marners old contract

 

[Ziggdiezan]

For better or for worse that’s probably the answer. The cap increase will cover the bulk of the Nylander and Matthews raises. The next cap increase probably covers Marner’s.

And all the structural re-jigging is probably covered in a Tavares pay cut if he’s still here and the expiry of the Brodie, Samsonov, Bertuzzi, Domi contracts.

Also have to fill out the majority of the top 4 D and a bunch of top 9 forwards next year with all the cap increase likely taken up by Matthews and potentially Nylander's contracts. With a big cap rise comes more expensive UFA contracts so it will be interesting to see if the leafs can get cheaper replacements for brodie, klingberg, Giordano, Bertuzzi, Domi, etc.