Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[WillyC]

I hope Toronto signs Willy soon and locks him in… because, honestly… I think there’s another gear still.

I know, it’s scary to think he could play even better… but, yeah, I think he’s going to.

 

[Arzak]

It honestly surprises me, videos like this. Nylander is by far and away the most talented player in this organization. Has been for a number of years. I'm not seeing any sudden change in his game. He's playing the game like he's always done. He's just getting rewarded for it.

It seems that so many people around hockey are shocked with what he is doing. His natural ability is leaps and bounds ahead of Matthews and Marner.

I've been saying for years that he is our best player. The only thing that can go against us is he is always the one who gets the short straw. If something needs to be shaken up, Nylander will get the brunt. The decision to play ROR on the top PP unit instead of Nylander was sickening. Hopefully Brad can convince him that it is truly William's team.

I remember shortly in his NHL career his junior coach talked about him and Pasta (since they played together and he coached them both). He called Pasta good but Nylander a different beast. Talent was always there

 

[arso40]

Trading him is nonsensical. There is a reason that teams don't generally trade guys willingly. Sometimes a team has no choice because the player has demanded it, but that isn't the case here. Toronto won't trade him, and to be honest I would be shocked if they do anything other than pay him more than they originally intended. They won't let him go, and his agent knows that the biggest pile of money will come from Toronto, not from any other team. I suppose the one caveat is if Nylander's ego is big enough to make him want to be on a team where he is "the man". That won't happen in Toronto with Matthews here, but at the same time Nylander has never really given any indication that he wants to be the one in the spotlight.

Why not?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Trading him is nonsensical. There is a reason that teams don't generally trade guys willingly. Sometimes a team has no choice because the player has demanded it, but that isn't the case here. Toronto won't trade him, and to be honest I would be shocked if they do anything other than pay him more than they originally intended. They won't let him go, and his agent knows that the biggest pile of money will come from Toronto, not from any other team. I suppose the one caveat is if Nylander's ego is big enough to make him want to be on a team where he is "the man". That won't happen in Toronto with Matthews here, but at the same time Nylander has never really given any indication that he wants to be the one in the spotlight.

Sure, it's not me who's saying trade him. The only was it might make sense is you trade M&M as well and do a complete tear down but since that's not happening, they'll keep him.

There is another reason he might want to leave. He might think this team has peaked and will only go downhill form here. And that being the case, why not go have some fun with an up and coming team, be it Chicago or whoever else and maybe have a crack at the cup a few years from now.

And I still think he might hate the idea of signing here, and watching us sign Marner for more money after he's taken Marner's spot among the top 5 wingers in the game. If it was me, I'm pretty sure that would irritate me.

 

[arso40]

I hope Toronto signs Willy soon and locks him in… because, honestly… I think there’s another gear still.

I know, it’s scary to think he could play even better… but, yeah, I think he’s going to.

That’s the scariest part is we know there’s still another gear to get to for him

 

[Gary Nylund]

I remember shortly in his NHL career his junior coach talked about him and Pasta (since they played together and he coached them both). He called Pasta good but Nylander a different beast. Talent was always there

Huh, that's interesting. They're both really good in any case. I think Nylander is a bit of a late bloomer and the people babbling about him just playing hard in a "contract year" are going to look silly. Kid's a rock star!

 

[Drytoast]

Tkachuk doesn't pay state taxes.

Based on past performance Tkachuk is definitely the better player (Right now it looks like Nylander has caught up to him) so Nylander should slot in at a lower number than him theoretically. However, just for visualizing things, if both were to make the same amount Nylander would need to make a little over $12MM to take home the same amount as Tkachuk.

Florida salaries aren't a great comparable for most of the league. However the Leafs being able to front load deals should be more of a benefit, but for some reason that doesn't seem to be the case.

Nylander has not caught up to Matt. Matt took his team by the scruff and dragged their asses to the finals. Nylander hasn't been able to dominate a single playoff game.

A goal here...an assist there. And overall mostly mid.

And while I understand the no state tax bullshit we have to contend with, signing with Toronto comes with it's own side perks like large sponsor deals. The real perk is the fan base over there isn't nearly as intense as it is here and most players don't like that spotlight especially when their families get harassed online.

But even with that reality I still would not pay 10 percent above market value to retain our stars. I refuse. I'd rather have workers who give it there all game in game out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's on every single leader we have in the dressing room. Nylander hasn't taken over any game or series in the playoffs, has he? So if he hasn't...and he hasn't shown he can do that. Why the f*** does he think he deserves more than players who have shown they can?

I'm not f***ing impressed by regular season games where the opposing teams are sleepwalking half the time.

Show me your value when the games matter.

Not sure we have any leaders.

Out of all our big guns, Nylander is the one who's production hasn't dropped off in a big way in the playoffs. He's shown his value, is you haven't noticed then that's on you. He's a keeper.

I agree with your assessment on Marner. I think he loved the idea of being a Leaf and winning a cup here at first but soured on Toronto after the constant (if warranted) criticism of their playoff success. He is already tight this season because he wanted to blow the doors off with a chance to break the bank next summer. I don't think he would mind winning a cup elsewhere on a team that doesn't have the scrutiny they do in Toronto.

Willy and Auston on the other hand don't care as much what the media says and can play without that pressure compared to MM.

I think he wants to win in Toronto so bad, it's win here or it almost doesn't even matter. He'll never leave because he's the one player that wants to be here for life more than anyone else and hopefully he stops listening to his dad during the next contract negotiations. Give a hometown discount, and be a hero in this town for life is what he should do.

Can you imagine the reaction if he announced in the summer that he was signing a three year extension for 9 million a year, saying that he wanted to give a discount so we could win the cup here? This town would go berserk, he'd become a hero overnight before he even played another game and if we did manage to win, he'd get a ton of credit for freeing up that bit of cap space and then he can make it up on the next contract if he wants to. And with all the cheers raining down on him, he might even forget to be nervous when the biggest games are played.

 

[A1LeafNation]

What are the teams that have 11m in cap space for Willy?

In my mind he wants to be a Leaf and the offer should be 9.5 x 8 = 76m

76m/7years = 10.85m. That's probably the most he would get on the open market.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Nylander has not caught up to Matt. Matt took his team by the scruff and dragged their asses to the finals. Nylander hasn't been able to dominate a single playoff game.

A goal here...an assist there. And overall mostly mid.

And while I understand the no state tax bullshit we have to contend with, signing with Toronto comes with it's own side perks like large sponsor deals. The real perk is the fan base over there isn't nearly as intense as it is here and most players don't like that spotlight especially when their families get harassed online.

But even with that reality I still would not pay 10 percent above market value to retain our stars. I refuse. I'd rather have workers who give it there all game in game out.

It's a very short sample size so I definitely won't crown Nylander the better player, but if this 17 game version of Nylander is the real Nylander then that gap is closing.

Anyway the point wasn't to say he's as good as Tkachuk. It was to illustrate just how much of a tax advantage Florida gets. If Tkachuk wanted to be a Leaf, he wasn't signing for $9.5M so comparing our guys caps with theirs isn't an apple to apples comparison .The real perk playing in Florida is you pay no state tax, and you get to live in Florida. Not being harassed is a nice value add but I'd gladly take the harrassment NHL players get if it means I made millions.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's on every single leader we have in the dressing room. Nylander hasn't taken over any game or series in the playoffs, has he? So if he hasn't...and he hasn't shown he can do that. Why the f*** does he think he deserves more than players who have shown they can?

I'm not f***ing impressed by regular season games where the opposing teams are sleepwalking half the time.

Show me your value when the games matter.

Last four seasons: regular vs playoffs:
Tavares - 0.96 vs 0.71 - drop of .25
Marner - 1.24 vs 1.00 - drop of .24
Matthews - 1.25 vs 1.03 - drop of .22
Nylander - 0.95 vs 0.97 - increase of .02.

There have also been numerous posts about individual series, and how he has been the one who doesn't stop producing in the later games.

He hasn't 'taken over' games (how many players do?), but he hasn't folded like the others.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Can you imagine the reaction if he announced in the summer that he was signing a three year extension for 9 million a year, saying that he wanted to give a discount so we could win the cup here? This town would go berserk, he'd become a hero overnight before he even played another game and if we did manage to win, he'd get a ton of credit for freeing up that bit of cap space and then he can make it up on the next contract if he wants to. And with all the cheers raining down on him, he might even forget to be nervous when the biggest games are played.

Except for a few posters here, who would still complain that $9M was too much, probably because he didn't lead the league in hits.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What are the teams that have 11m in cap space for Willy?

In my mind he wants to be a Leaf and the offer should be 9.5 x 8 = 76m

76m/7years = 10.85m. That's probably the most he would get on the open market.

7 year contracts and 8 year contracts aren't the same thing.

 

[Drytoast]

Last four seasons: regular vs playoffs:
Tavares - 0.96 vs 0.71 - drop of .25
Marner - 1.24 vs 1.00 - drop of .24
Matthews - 1.25 vs 1.03 - drop of .22
Nylander - 0.95 vs 0.97 - increase of .02.

There have also been numerous posts about individual series, and how he has been the one who doesn't stop producing in the later games.

He hasn't 'taken over' games (how many players do?), but he hasn't folded like the others.

How many do? Most of those who are not on the Leafs who make 10 or more a year. You are impressed that one of our stars stays mid. Maybe he goes to another team with a different work ethic and chemistry/leadership and excels into the next Mario Lemeiux? It won't be here. Not in this dressing room. Not with this leadership.

It's been 8 years of failure. I've seen enough. If we overpay to keep a mid tier playoff performer...we are never winning anything.

 

[goldnblack]

Does Tavares have a NMC (have to assume he does, but like Taylor Hall he could waive)? Found this one out there:

Nick Kypreos: The Maple Leafs can create a bidding war for captain John Tavares. Here’s how and why they should do it

A willingness by Leafs to retain salary on a Tavares trade could easily put a dozen teams in a bidding war — and completely reconfigure their cap.

www.thestar.com

And instantly thought that was what I'd do here. Retain on Tavares, deal him, sign Nylander to the big deal that starts with an 11.

Do you guys hate that option?

 

[Trapper]

It's going to take more than 17 games to convince me that Nylander is a +11 million dollar player in this league.

He's off to a great start, such a skilled player, but come on, have folks not seen hot starts before?

521 games @ a .825 point rate.
Last year @ 1.02 point rate.
17 games @ 1.588 point rate.
Playoffs @ .8 point rate.

Two words: Jonathan Huberdeau

Nylander is a much better player than Huberdeau.
I see Huberdeau as a 60-70 point player who had a massive career year of 100 points never to repeat.

Nylander hot start or not, is still a 80-90 point player IMO. On a team of 13 million, 2x 11 million, there is no way Nylander takes less than 10.5.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Does Tavares have a NMC (have to assume he does, but like Taylor Hall he could waive)? Found this one out there:

Nick Kypreos: The Maple Leafs can create a bidding war for captain John Tavares. Here’s how and why they should do it

A willingness by Leafs to retain salary on a Tavares trade could easily put a dozen teams in a bidding war — and completely reconfigure their cap.

www.thestar.com

And instantly thought that was what I'd do here. Retain on Tavares, deal him, sign Nylander to the big deal that starts with an 11.

Do you guys hate that option?

I wouldn't sign Nylander for something that starts with an 11.

I'd be surprised if JT would waive but he'd be a 1C for a few teams in this league still like Minnesota, Boston, Columbus, Nashville, Calgary and San Jose and maybe a couple others I missed.

There would be varying degrees of interest, more than likely you're taking back a contract to off-set some money and no guarantee you're gonna be better, it's still hard to find top 6 centres.

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander is a much better player than Huberdeau.
I see Huberdeau as a 60-70 point player who had a massive career year of 100 points never to repeat.

Nylander hot start or not, is still a 80-90 point player IMO. On a team of 13 million, 2x 11 million, there is no way Nylander takes less than 10.5.

Sadly the trickle effect of signing Tavares for $11m. It should ever have been the way that move played out but here were are. Marner will be next to squeeze Tre's onions if he puts up 100+ points next season and he will be highly motivated to so unless he gets married this summer again.

 

[Trapper]

Except for a few posters here, who would still complain that $9M was too much, probably because he didn't lead the league in hits.

If Nylander would accept 9 million, that contract would already be done. Like yesterday.
I expect full term somewhere between 86-88 million. This is his set me up for life contract.

 

[ToneDog]

I wouldn't sign Nylander for something that starts with an 11.

I'd be surprised if JT would waive but he'd be a 1C for a few teams in this league still like Minnesota, Boston, Columbus, Nashville, Calgary and San Jose and maybe a couple others I missed.

There would be varying degrees of interest, more than likely you're taking back a contract to off-set some money and no guarantee you're gonna be better, it's still hard to find top 6 centres.

JT is not owed much in real dollars after July 1, 2024. I proposed moving him to Zona because of that and trading for him at the TDL if he agreed to waive. Retaining increases the number of landing destinations.

 

[WTFMAN99]

JT is not owed much in real dollars after July 1, 2024. I proposed moving him to Zona because of that and trading for him at the TDL if he agreed to waive. Retaining increases the number of landing destinations.

Yes - he'd just be owed like 900-950k salary.

I still don't think he'd waive, I think he has 2-3 young kids?

I'm definitely open to him leaving though if he's open to it.

 

[Trapper]

JT is not owed much in real dollars after July 1, 2024. I proposed moving him to Zona because of that and trading for him at the TDL if he agreed to waive. Retaining increases the number of landing destinations.

Tavares should be more cost efficient next contract if he stays. More along the lines of what Giroux is getting in Ottawa on a shorter term.
We should have traded Marner for 2-3 D, signed Nylander, Bertuzzi,Domi, not Klingberg and some other forwards harder to play against.

 

[ACC1224]

Does Tavares have a NMC (have to assume he does, but like Taylor Hall he could waive)? Found this one out there:

Nick Kypreos: The Maple Leafs can create a bidding war for captain John Tavares. Here’s how and why they should do it

A willingness by Leafs to retain salary on a Tavares trade could easily put a dozen teams in a bidding war — and completely reconfigure their cap.

www.thestar.com

And instantly thought that was what I'd do here. Retain on Tavares, deal him, sign Nylander to the big deal that starts with an 11.

Do you guys hate that option?

Tavares isn't waiving.

 

[goldnblack]

I wouldn't sign Nylander for something that starts with an 11.

I'd be surprised if JT would waive but he'd be a 1C for a few teams in this league still like Minnesota, Boston, Columbus, Nashville, Calgary and San Jose and maybe a couple others I missed.

There would be varying degrees of interest, more than likely you're taking back a contract to off-set some money and no guarantee you're gonna be better, it's still hard to find top 6 centres.

That's definitely what he's worth and arguably what he'll get, specially with the cap going up. I think they recently polled nhl insiders and that was the concensus number.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's definitely what he's worth and arguably what he'll get, specially with the cap going up.

Pastrnak gets 11.25M and scored 60 goals and already has a Rocket on the resume. He also knew the cap was going up.

To me, he's not worth 11M, someone can absolutely pay that price if they choose to do so but he won't be worth it.