Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[notDatsyuk]

You keep on pretending GA/60 on PK need more context.

Mitch is facing tougher competition on PK that's why his GA/60 is so bad. That's a new one.

Didn't you know that? No other penalty killer in the league plays against the other team's best PP unit. Not even the rest of the Leafs' PK guys.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You keep on pretending GA/60 on PK need more context.
Mitch is facing tougher competition on PK that's why his GA/60 is so bad. That's a new one.

You keep pretending that GA/60 is a measure of the defensive play of skaters, when it's not.
You keep pretending that Marner's GA/60 is bad, when it's not.
You keep pretending that context isn't necessary, when it is.
Somebody who faces top units will have a higher GA/60 than somebody who faces secondary units. That's not new, and should be pretty obvious to anybody.
You keep making claims that Marner is bad on the PK, when that is factually incorrect. He is a top tier PKer, and that has been proven to you multiple times.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You keep on pretending GA/60 on PK need more context.

Mitch is facing tougher competition on PK that's why his GA/60 is so bad. That's a new one.

Seems like my ignore list is depriving me of some laughs! But I can still laugh and you know why? Context baby!!

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah, I'm not sure what that meant unless they meant that player X asks for 10m and gets 11m

What I meant is simply overpaid is overpaid

That's how I took it which I didn't think made any sense.

 

[therealkoho]

Can't have the team I described while at the same time having 2 or 3 overpriced divas who lead the character of the team.

Sometimes it's just one apple, not all of them!

Anybody in the NHL who slide blocks imo is not a diva. A player who's elite is not necessarily a diva.

 

[Drytoast]

Sometimes it's just one apple, not all of them!

Anybody in the NHL who slide blocks imo is not a diva. A player who's elite is not necessarily a diva.

Based on what they bring in the games that matter...I conclude that they are diva's.

Superstars "bring it". Have ya not noticed that "didn't start on time" has been a common phrase in the Matthews/Marner era in games that matter? And we keep making excuses or continue to ask why that is. We know why that is. We are just to attracted to regular season fancy schmancy shit to admit it.

 

[Jojalu]

As good as Willie has been, Pasta still putting up better numbers and with lesser linemates.

View attachment 771175

I would say Pasta is better than Nylander but his linemates are pretty equal. Marchand is considerbly better than Bertuzzi, and Tavares better than Zacha

 

[djdev]

with all due respect. You are wrong. JT is a great hockey player and an amazing human being.

im wrong about my opinion because JT is an amazing human being? he scores 50% of his points on the PP, his advanced stats 5v5 are not very pretty and hes not a fast player. like i said its my opinion but just telling me im wrong because of how you personally feel about him isnt exactly debate worthy stuff.

You keep pretending that GA/60 is a measure of the defensive play of skaters, when it's not.
You keep pretending that Marner's GA/60 is bad, when it's not.
You keep pretending that context isn't necessary, when it is.
Somebody who faces top units will have a higher GA/60 than somebody who faces secondary units. That's not new, and should be pretty obvious to anybody.
You keep making claims that Marner is bad on the PK, when that is factually incorrect. He is a top tier PKer, and that has been proven to you multiple times.

arzak says hes bad so he must be, i guess the selke nomination last year should be voided now

 

[notDatsyuk]

Based on what they bring in the games that matter...I conclude that they are diva's.

Superstars "bring it". Have ya not noticed that "didn't start on time" has been a common phrase in the Matthews/Marner era in games that matter? And we keep making excuses or continue to ask why that is. We know why that is. We are just to attracted to regular season fancy schmancy shit to admit it.

If you are looking at 'not starting on time', Nylander is in a three-way tie for the league lead in first goals in a game, and has half of the team's.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I would say Pasta is better than Nylander but his linemates are pretty equal. Marchand is considerbly better than Bertuzzi, and Tavares better than Zacha

How about comparing Marchand to Tavares and Zacha to Bertuzzi? (2nd best to 2nd best and 3rd to 3rd, rather than by position).

 

[Pinkcat]

I think the only guys that really got overpaid are Marner, Matthews and JT.

Matthews overpayment is really small though and he is a unicorn so I have no problem with that.

JT comes with an asterix - UFA's get overpaid on a regular basis so you could argue that he got the market rate, and therefore isn't overpaid.

Marner is the only clear mistake. He was NOT a UFA, Dubas didn't use the leverage he had. So far the impact of that contract hasn't spread to others, but right now is where it becomes a problem IMO as I think it's impacting WIllie's ask. If Marner was making 9 (or 9.5 tops) on a 7 year deal like he should be, we'd have a much easier time signing Nylander. JMHO.

Dubas really f***ed up big time on this one. He said before the summer that he wanted to get Marner's deal done early, did not want to through the same situation as he did with Nylander, I was like WTF are doing dude? He held firm on a number, was willing to let Willie sit out the season if that's what it takes and Nylander caved at literally the last minute - that's exactly what he should have done with Marner. The way to get it done earlier is to pay him more than he should, he basically announces to the world that that's his plan with Marner and Marner's agent is probably laughing hysterically to this day.

Chickens coming home to roost.

I recall that Marner didn't get all the performance bonuses in his ELC so the next GM made up for it in the post ELC contract. It stems from an inconsistent policy that has created the bloated contracts we now have.

 

[ToneDog]

How about comparing Marchand to Tavares and Zacha to Bertuzzi? (2nd best to 2nd best and 3rd to 3rd, rather than by position).

In fairness both Pasta and Willie have played with different linemates over the years. Willie with Matty some and Pasta on the Perfection line which was one of the best lines in hockey. I still take Pasta who also comes with an edge over Willie. The good thing is, Willie has closed the gap.

 

[arso40]

Marner has put in most of his time with the captain, the rest with the guy he turned into a Hart trophy winner and the highest paid player in the league.

All kidding aside when did the league and its fans start devaluing playmakers?

In all my years I watched other teams always have the leagues best playmakers, now the Leafs finally have one, a guy whos likely headed to the HoF. A guy who is always pushing the Leafs offence, leading the defence, fearlessly blocking shots and running one of the leagues premier PPs.

It is the most head shakingly vacant arguments I have ever seen.

The kid is a huge asset to this team, when somebody was slumping the coach stapled Marner to the guy to get him going, and the guy got going. It wasn't a coincidence.

You think marner made him a hart trophy winner? Oh cmon man and as far as putting guys with guys to get ‘em going hasn’t been marner for the last year and change

 

[hotpaws]

How about comparing Marchand to Tavares and Zacha to Bertuzzi? (2nd best to 2nd best and 3rd to 3rd, rather than by position).

Pasta's line mates are better by a fair margin , Willie basically plays with 2 net front guys while Marchand can also help drive the line . Pasta's line mates are also much faster .

 

[Jojalu]

How about comparing Marchand to Tavares and Zacha to Bertuzzi? (2nd best to 2nd best and 3rd to 3rd, rather than by position).

How about comparing Marchand to Tavares and Zacha to Bertuzzi? (2nd best to 2nd best and 3rd to 3rd, rather than by position).

I would say over the past 5 years Marchand has been a little better than Tavares, and Bertuzzi better than Zacha.

In both cases I still say the line is a wash

 

[Drytoast]

If you are looking at 'not starting on time', Nylander is in a three-way tie for the league lead in first goals in a game, and has half of the team's.

I get that you are excited over his hair. But I am not looking forward into another gd playoff disappointment where the other team out works us and we ask ourselves...AGAIN...where the f*** our big money players went when it mattered the most?

I'm over it. This core is soft and overvalued based off of how well they compete in nothing games. Because Toronto is a big gd market with low expectations.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner has put in most of his time with the captain, the rest with the guy he turned into a Hart trophy winner and the highest paid player in the league.

All kidding aside when did the league and its fans start devaluing playmakers?

In all my years I watched other teams always have the leagues best playmakers, now the Leafs finally have one, a guy whos likely headed to the HoF. A guy who is always pushing the Leafs offence, leading the defence, fearlessly blocking shots and running one of the leagues premier PPs.

It is the most head shakingly vacant arguments I have ever seen.

The kid is a huge asset to this team, when somebody was slumping the coach stapled Marner to the guy to get him going, and the guy got going. It wasn't a coincidence.

All that can be true and he can be overpaid at the same time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I recall that Marner didn't get all the performance bonuses in his ELC so the next GM made up for it in the post ELC contract. It stems from an inconsistent policy that has created the bloated contracts we now have.

Not sure how much those bonuses would have been. I am pretty sure that overpaying Marner by 2 million a year for 6 years to make up for it is insane.

 

[Sypher04]

He reportedly turned down $9.5M this offseason. As per capfriendly, 15 players make $10M+ as cap hit. There are only 11 forwards in that group. So he wants to be the 12th highest paid forward in the entire league. In that group are 3 of his teammates. What a coincidence. So, very shortly, Leafs will have 4 of the top 12 cap hit forwards in the NHL.

That is how teams get run into the ground. Overpaying for overrated performance. Good GMs lock players in earlier at better rates. Bad ones let the players dictate everything.

I don’t recall any such reporting. I remember hearing the Leafs were offering in the high 8s

 

[djdev]

i personally think pastrnak would be the 2nd best player on this team ahead of marner and willy and behind matthews

thats what im telling both those guys when negotiating if im treliving lol.

 

[Martin Skoula]

i mean willy DOES deserve less than marner though, how much is open for debate, but saying he doesnt just isnt true, marner has outproduced him at every stage and he might be the best PKer in the league.

Settle down Paul. Best PKer in the league, holy shit lmao.

 

[djdev]

Settle down Paul. Best PKer in the league, holy shit lmao.

i said "might" jeezuz people are sensitive over this shit. he was 3rd in selke voting last year, presumably by people more qualified to judge than you or i.

 

[Arzak]

Pasta's line mates are better by a fair margin , Willie basically plays with 2 net front guys while Marchand can also help drive the line . Pasta's line mates are also much faster .

Zacha is playing solid hockey, not surprisingly he'll vastly surpass his goal and point totals if they keep it Marchand - Zacha - Pastrnak

 

[hotpaws]

i personally think pastrnak would be the 2nd best player on this team ahead of marner and willy and behind matthews

thats what im telling both those guys when negotiating if im treliving lol.

you're right but our problem is our internal cap not what league wide comparables are getting paid

Dubas broke the bank giving JT 11m which set off the chain of events with Mathews using that as his floor and then Marner using them as his comps

Mathews used his leverage as a ufa to get another overpayment for his term and now that Willie has raised his game and has leverage he's probably won't settle for a reasonable deal based on where the comps put him

our only hope is Willie is being truthful in wanting to be a Leaf which i believe and we can use that to not get completely bent over because if he wants to test the market i can see him getting well over 10m , Chicago has plenty of cap and only Bedard to pay in the near future so i could see them throwing out a big number

 

[ULF_55]

No way Nylander is worth more than Pastrnak.
Same holds for marner.
And if we disregard this year, Draisaitl is statistically better than Matthews.