Nylander Chronicles Part XXIV: Homer's Odyssey Edition

[Menzinger]

4.5m for a top 4 rhd is market value.

It is for a consistent top four guy.

And Zaitsev certainly hasn’t shown much consistency.

 

[Critical13]

4.5m for a top 4 rhd is market value.

Show me a good defensive core where he’s in the top 4

 

[Menzinger]

People claimed he was this genius GM. Here's the first big challenge and he's failing miserably. Most GM's are able to get their RFA's signed to contracts without missing any games. The last GM we had was not only able to do that, but he was able to convince the players to take team friendly deals. Here's the guy we mortgaged the core of our front office for, and he's falling on his face so far. Not a good sign for the future.

You mean like giving 4 years to a 4th liner who didn’t even play 50% of his contract, or 18 million to a near 40 year old Marleau? Or 30 million to a questionable 5/4 guy in Zaitsev?

Lou had his highs and lows during his tenure with the Leafs, but contract management was far from one of his better qualities

 

[nuck]

I don't think players care about cups as much as fans do.

Some probably don't care at all or that winning is secondary to salary.

I am not sure Euros care about the Cup as much. Sundin and the Sedins were content to play on losing organizations right up until the end. Kovalchuk was content to hop to the KHL. Born in Calgary but Willie is still a Swede.

 

[81Leafs50]

Since when does it matter where someone was drafted? So I guess we cant trade Freddy Gauthier (1st rd pick) for Kucherov (2nd round pick)?

Since when are all draft classes equal?

 

[Trapper]

You can criticize Dubas for not being able to get a deal done but Michael Nylander's history in his own career and with his involvement in his sons hockey careers plus the agent that represents give the Nylander camp very little benefit of the doubt in this whole thing.

It’s hard to criticize until all the facts are known.
If Dubas is offering 4 or 5 million, then you can focus the blame on him.
If Dubas is offering in the 6-6.5 range, then you can focus the blame on Nylander.
Sorry but he’s not worth more than that.
We aren’t overpaying someone by a couple of million just so people can say he got the 1st contract done.
If he won’t sign in that range then time for a trade. Life will go on for the Leafs.

 

[81Leafs50]

I kind of doubt it, since micro stats weren't publicly available back then.

Even so, you seem to want to forego looking at what players actually do and talk only about reputations, and outdated scouting reports. Why exactly?

Just to be clear, by your second paragraph, you wouldn't trade Dal Colle for Gostisbehere or Parayko then? That's after all a former top ten pick for a third round pick d-man.

so you mean to tell me that Pesce's upside is higher than Nylanders?

 

[A1LeafNation]

It's more about the term to me.

He will be in the right side of 30 when the contract is up.

 

[A1LeafNation]

He may be playing in our top 4 but don't kid yourself, he's a bottom pairing defender

He’s a top 4. Oz is a bottom pair.

 

[A1LeafNation]

It is for a consistent top four guy.

And Zaitsev certainly hasn’t shown much consistency.

He’s been injured.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Show me a good defensive core where he’s in the top 4

Tampa

 

[Not My Tempo]

He’s a top 4. Oz is a bottom pair.

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┻┳| •.•) Oz has been better than Zaitsev
┳┻|⊂ﾉ this year
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[81Leafs50]

Sebastian Aho who scored more goals and points than Nylander last season is working on a long term contract extension in Carolina.

IF I was Nylander I would sign with the Leafs before Carolina announces the new deal.

Because once the Canes announce the deal and Aho shows an AAV of less than 7mill Nylander is literally up shit creek without a padle.

 

[7even]

4.5m for a top 4 rhd is market value.

More than that, I think. But I don't think Zaitsev is a top 4D outside of usage.

 

[A1LeafNation]

More than that, I think. But I don't think Zaitsev is a top 4D outside of usage.

I think he is getting some tough assignments and usage. Eventually he will be okay imo.

Maybe I haven’t been watching closely, but he seems to make good decisions and break up plays in our zone.

 

[Stephen]

Sebastian Aho who scored more goals and points than Nylander last season is working on a long term contract extension in Carolina.

IF I was Nylander I would sign with the Leafs before Carolina announces the new deal.

Because once the Canes announce the deal and Aho shows an AAV of less than 7mill Nylander is literally up **** creek without a padle.

Hopefully this happens.

I kind of wish Nylander would take his self confidence and sign up for a 2 year show me bridge deal. Show us you're better than Marner, show us you're better than Matthews. Take the Leafs behind the woodshed then, by all means.

The way he's doing it now, while within his rights, really isn't showing a buy in mentality. If Aho signs for a small market friendly deal out of loyalty, that would be an interesting counterpoint to William Nylander.

 

[Stephen]

It’s hard to criticize until all the facts are known.
If Dubas is offering 4 or 5 million, then you can focus the blame on him.
If Dubas is offering in the 6-6.5 range, then you can focus the blame on Nylander.
Sorry but he’s not worth more than that.
We aren’t overpaying someone by a couple of million just so people can say he got the 1st contract done.
If he won’t sign in that range then time for a trade. Life will go on for the Leafs.

Agreed.

From the Leafs point of view, what needs to happen is they need to retain the value that Nylander represents. Either by keeping his rights, contract or none, or by trading him and getting the right value. What they don't need to do is cave into artificial deadlines and make hurried moves that downgrades the talent in the organization.

 

[thewave]

More than that, I think. But I don't think Zaitsev is a top 4D outside of usage.

He's #4 and is fine in that position. Jake was terrible to start the season and they have like 61% dzone starts etc etc. We could do better but he isn't terrible either. If he were our #5 we are in very good shape on D.

 

[Pookie]

If that’s how he’d feel then why wouldn’t he just sign for more money with the Leafs than he’ll make in the KHL even if what the Leafs are offering isn’t what his original ask is? He’d do it out of spite?

We’d all do things if we didn’t feel valued wouldn’t we?

 

[Pookie]

Stop the drama...if Dubas wanted to be eaten alive, Willy would have been signed already to whatever he is demanding.

You don’t know what he’s demanding do you?

But the Canes do. And they are willing to bring him in.

 

[wc17]

Sebastian Aho who scored more goals and points than Nylander last season is working on a long term contract extension in Carolina.

IF I was Nylander I would sign with the Leafs before Carolina announces the new deal.

Because once the Canes announce the deal and Aho shows an AAV of less than 7mill Nylander is literally up **** creek without a padle.

$7 mil average would be great for the Leafs in Marners negotiation! Doubt Aho is signed before Nylander but yeah...I dont see him getting $7 mil considering he looks like a legit PPG #1C

 

[The CyNick]

I couldn't disagree more.

This isn't just Dubas. At this point it's got to be an organizational strategy that comes from the top. I can't imagine that Shanahan isn't driving the bus. Dubas will no doubt be doing the work, but I would think Shanny is calling he shots.

Furthermore, it isn't the young inexperienced GM that created these events -- it's his predecessors who drafted Nylander, who signed Marleau, Zaitsev and others to generous contracts that will push against the cap, and failed to figure out Nylander's head space and contract demands much earlier in the contract-bargaining cycle.

Dubas is just playing the hand he was dealt.

In my view, so far he's doing a pretty good job of that.

Shanny should want to see a team friendly deal, as any President would. The job of the GM is to execute on that. So far only our GM has been unable to get that job done. At some point you have to question if there are issues with his negotiating style. Did he take this whole process too lightly? Does Nylander's camp think they can walk all over him because he's never negotiated a deal like this?

I dont get how anyone can say our young GM has done a good job when he doesnt have the player under contract and we're already 15% of the way through the season. Think about how many games weve already lost because we couldnt score. Nylander would have helped. Imagine we miss out on home ice because of those missed points. Imagine we miss out on 1st in division and an easier draw in the first round because of it. None of this says our young GM is doing a good job.

 

[The CyNick]

Totally reserving judgement eh?

At this point he's already cost us points in the season. If this delay in signing Nylander results in an amazing deal (as people were claiming he would be able to do) then its possible you could argue he took one step back to take two forward by leaving more room for guys like Matthews, Marner and Gardiner. But say if he ends up signing Nylander to an average deal, then all he did was cost us points by not getting to the number quick enough.

So yes, I am reserving judgment, but so far its not looking good.

 

[Polaris1010]

From the Leafs point of view, what needs to happen is they need to retain the value that Nylander represents. Either by keeping his rights, contract or none, or by trading him and getting the right value. What they don't need to do is cave into artificial deadlines and make hurried moves that downgrades the talent in the organization.

Agree in principle except for the deadline part because it is a real deadline.

For example, last season, what happened? The Leafs loss game 7 on the road. They loss 3 of 4 games on the road. If that game 7 was at home, that could have been the difference. Babcock could have matched lines and the Leafs could have won.

But to do that, the Leafs need to finish ahead of Boston. The Leafs need the points, this year too. Nylander definitely would help. But he's not here.

If December 1 comes and goes with nothing happening, Dubas telling the whole world that winning is secondary in Toronto, that sticking it to a prima donna and his own job security is more important.

Back in the day, Mr. Ballard would have been perfectly fine with this. He never cared about winning. Who can blame him as I/we kept on watching.

Are things different today in MLSE own by the two Evil Empire Canadian giants Rogers and Bell?

Not sure.

I don't think they care about winning either.

 

[Marshy]

I think Gross is doing a $hitty job. He badly underestimated his rookie counterpart who is holding firm to what is fair and market appropriate.

I wholeheartedly approve and say job well done so far Kyle. Keep up the good work.