Player Discussion Nylander After the Contract

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What was the right contract?


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You assume that there will be defense to spend on. With an asset through trade you can be much more targeted to what you want. Letting an asset walk out the door means you are restricted to what's currently on the open market. Which is typically players looking to CASH IN.

So no. Letting Marner walk and freeing up 11M is no where near the same advantage as trading an asset like Marner.

We f***ed up. Again. And I will spend the next years taking this out on all those "Willy Styles" fan boys who thought this was a right move. Until defending the Nylander signing is a thing of the past.
As usual, the question that the 'trade him for a defenceman worth $11M' crowd never seem to want to answer is 'who?'

Stop with the childish profanity and name-calling and tell us which great defenceman we could have traded for who was available, and on a team that was willing to let him go for the sake of a rental?
 
I’d go as far as saying they’ve successfully brainwashed many of their fan as is proof by their unyielding loyalty even when it’s apparent they couldn’t care less about success as long as the jersey’s are bought and season tickets are renewed……….
Do you post this stuff for a reaction or just spew mindless nonsense?
You make such little sense.
 
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As usual, the question that the 'trade him for a defenceman worth $11M' crowd never seem to want to answer is 'who?'

Stop with the childish profanity and name-calling and tell us which great defenceman we could have traded for who was available, and on a team that was willing to let him go for the sake of a rental?
IMO, No one is trading for Marner without an extension first.

How about something like Marner and Liligren for Jenner and Werenski, a trade along those lines.

It’s more about roster construction as opposed to Marner not being a good player
 
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It won't take 6 years. It will start next season when his shit salary kicks in and it's clear he's NOT a top 5 scorer in the league but paid like one.

Now we are saying "but he drives chances!" as an excuse to justify the overpay.
He will not be paid as a top five scorer next year, and definitly not the year after that. Many players have been taking 1-2year deals and expect way bigger pay next time. When Marner got 11 Nylander should have gotten 9. But in the real world that's what they should get now
 
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He will not be paid as a top five scorer next year, and definitly not the year after that. Many players have been taking 1-2year deals and expect way bigger pay next time. When Marner got 11 Nylander should have gotten 9. But in the real world that's what they should get now
When Nylander got his 7, Marner should have got 8.5 - 9 and then sign Matthews to 11.
That's all down to Dubas inexperience though.
 
IMO, No one is trading for Marner without an extension first.

How about something like Marner and Liligren for Jenner and Werenski, a trade along those lines.

It’s more about roster construction as opposed to Marner not being a good player
I was actually replying to a poster who keeps insisting we should have traded Nylander earlier this year for some mythical super-defenceman, but it applies equally well to Marner next year.

That particular trade works out cap-wise, assuming Marner and Lily don't sign for more than current, but two of them have NTCs (and I don't think Mitch will sign an extension without one) and one has an M-NTC.
 
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IMO, No one is trading for Marner without an extension first.

How about something like Marner and Liligren for Jenner and Werenski, a trade along those lines.

It’s more about roster construction as opposed to Marner not being a good player
I don't know why people think we can trade Marner. We can't. We only had leverage over Nylander which is why it would have been preferable to trade him instead of overpaying him to stay.

We are not trading Marner. we gave him a NTC. Assume he says no and just drop any and all ideas about trading him.

We now have two options here. Let him walk to free up his salary and get nothing for him.
Resign him at the same we gave Nylander.

Our control stopped with Nylander and we decided to pass it up. Now we are f***ed.
 
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When Nylander got his 7, Marner should have got 8.5 - 9 and then sign Matthews to 11.
That's all down to Dubas inexperience though.
Yeah i know. What i tried to say without saying it, was that in leaf land Nylander has been cheap and now he got paid for those years too.

If Marner and Matthews had taken less and openly gone out and said we want to win here and get the best team we can. No way that Nylander would try to get 11. Or even 10. It always start with the top guys. If the other players take less, nobody cares.

I would definitly take less and get my extra money in other ways. But i spend less then the average person.
 
True but that contract has only one year left. If Willie is an 80 point player, we are f***ed.
True, but if Willy averages only 80 points per season over his contract, it will be better than JT, at a lower cap %.

And I suspect Willy will do a fair bit better, and won't slow down as much.
 
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True, but if Willy averages only 80 points per season over his contract, it will be better than JT, at a lower cap %.

And I suspect Willy will do a fair bit better, and won't slow down as much.
Two wrongs do not make a right. 80 points is underselling Willie. His floor should be 90 points and hopefully he will throw in a couple of 100 point seasons before he declines to an 80 point player.
 
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Two wrongs do not make a right. 80 points is underselling Willie. His floor should be 90 points and hopefully he will throw in a couple of 100 point seasons before he declines to an 80 point player.
In this case not so much 'right or wrong' but degrees. Yes, 80 points is underselling - I expect 90 or more, especially if he ever gets used properly for an extended period.
 
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Personally, I find it pretty hard to be too upset at Willy and his deal. Pretty sure it's on record the Willy camp would have been open to take less if others took less, and even despite that, Auston extracted every dollar he could from this franchise for the 2nd straight contract.

Why should anyone take less if the best player on the team won't? Culture starts at the top. If you wanna blame anyone, blame Matthews, Dubas/Treliving, and Shanahan.

Fun fact, if you average Matthews cap hit for 8 years post-elc vs McDavid the difference is less than 400k. It's insanity what the Leafs are doing here.
 
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Personally, I find it pretty hard to be too upset at Willy and his deal. Pretty sure it's on record the Willy camp would have be open to take less if others took less, and even despite that, Auston extracted every dollar he could from this franchise for the 2nd straight contract.

Why should anyone take less if the best player on the team won't? Culture starts at the top. If you wanna blame anyone, blame Matthews, Dubas/Treliving, and Shanahan.

Fun fact, if you average Matthews cap hit for 8 years post-elc vs McDavid the difference is less than 400k. It's insanity what the Leafs are doing here.
So you are happy with 3 me first players leading your team? Never gonna win with these 3 me first players who are not willing to play outside their comfort zone. Hense why they have so little playoff success as a team IMO.
 
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So you are happy with 3 me first players leading your team? Never gonna win with these 3 me first players who are not willing to play outside their comfort zone. Hense why they have so little playoff success as a team IMO.
Absolutely not. But I don't see an easy solution to fix the problem either. The core all have NMC's, they're not going anywhere. The Leafs don't even have their first next year so they can't even tear it down even if they wanted to. No choice but to ride it out at this point.
 
Absolutely not. But I don't see an easy solution to fix the problem either. The core all have NMC's, they're not going anywhere. The Leafs don't even have their first next year so they can't even tear it down even if they wanted to. No choice but to ride it out at this point.
I think that might be what they have decided. The only thing I see changing next year is if Tre hits a HR or two or three on July 1 and odds are likely not in his favour.
 
So you are happy with 3 me first players leading your team? Never gonna win with these 3 me first players who are not willing to play outside their comfort zone. Hense why they have so little playoff success as a team IMO.
Not happy with three (or even four if you include JT), but there's not much, if anything, that can be done about it right now. Probably the best thing is to suffer through the rest of this season and next, until the two worst (contract-wise at least) are gone.

Sucks, but that's the mess Dubas created.
 
I think that might be what they have decided. The only thing I see changing next year is if Tre hits a HR or two or three on July 1 and odds are likely not in his favour.
Hopefully some of the picks and prospects Dubas didn't throw away will help the team, both on the ice and on the spreadsheet.
 
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Do you post this stuff for a reaction or just spew mindless nonsense?
You make such little sense.

I think he is saying that it is plausible that the corporate big whigs in charge, are more impressed with the highlights the players generate for their media platforms. I believe he feels that the focus and attention is to make money from ad revenues and merchandise over the comparatively small amount that MLSE will generate from an extra round of play. In addition I believe he is inferring that the Toronto market is strong even after the Leafs are out as interest in hockey is maintained by many fans in the GTA.
 
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He will not be paid as a top five scorer next year, and definitly not the year after that. Many players have been taking 1-2year deals and expect way bigger pay next time. When Marner got 11 Nylander should have gotten 9. But in the real world that's what they should get now

Some folks will never quite grasp that fixating on aav is pointless in a league with a fluid cap
 
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It certainly matters though. How can you justify paying Nylander more than Pastrnak, who just signed like 8 months before. That means they just have extra money to get better when the cap goes up.

His aav is higher, but his cap % is also still lower at time of signing

Regardless, I don't think it's any more complicated than Pasta didn't quite dig in as much as he could have when looking for a new deal while Nylander/his agent did.

Edit: clarification
 
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