Player Discussion Nylander After the Contract

[GoonieFace]

If I had a better sample size that we could win with the 3 amigos being paid what they will be, knowing we are f***ed next year unless we can move Tavares, I'd be selling and loading up with blue chippers and targeting 2025 (remember the Rangers telling their fans they were taking a step back?).

Yes, the fans who buy into this team having a shot and the East is up for grabs will tell you they are going for it at the TDL but IMO it is the wrong move, again.


It will be further proof that their first priority is not to win a SC.

I think they can make a few minor moves, don’t trade a 1st or top prospects. Their top priority is to have their stars sign, they don’t care if it hinders their depth in the process.

 

[Drytoast]

Caving to Nylander as they did is enough proof for me. If they were serious about winning the SC they would not have handcuffed themselves with that deal which pretty much writes off next year unless they plan to get JT to waive his NMC. .

Willie says he wants to be a Leaf but is not willing to budge off his number. Not a characteristic I want in a player I hand $92m to.

As for more money by winning, how many more home playoff games does that mean for this core?

5 in 2023, 4 in 2022, N/A in 2021, N/A in 2020, 3 in 2019, 3 in 2018, 3 in 2018

That is a total of 18 in 5 years. If these guys we getting you closer to 10 playoff home games per year, sure pay them, but they just getting you to the dance and then disappearing. How much of a sample size does one need to see they cannot get it done and you need to go in a different direction? Yet here we go again. More than enough proof for me.

Merch. They are only interested in selling Merch.

 

[ACC1224]

Yet here we sit without a cup since 1967. The center of the hockey universe that can afford to pay Babs $24m not to coach and the 3 amigos tens of millions of dollars when they have won shit in 7 years.

The haven't been successful no doubt but that doesn't mean they don't want to be. You're confusing indifference with incompetence.
There is tons of proof that they want to win, none that they don't(at least I haven't seen any)

 

[ToneDog]

The haven't been successful no doubt but that doesn't mean they don't want to be. You're confusing indifference with incompetence.
There is tons of proof that they want to win, none that they don't(at least I haven't seen any)

Perhaps. I agree they want to win, I am just not sure how much and how much incompetence plays into it.

 

[ACC1224]

Perhaps. I agree they want to win, I am just not sure how much and how much incompetence plays into it.

Incompetence = 100% of the reason.
The team would have zero motivation to not want to win, at least that I can think of.
No one has ever given a plausible reason why they wouldn't want to win. I'd love to hear it if it exists.

 

[kevsh]

They’d make more money by winning.

The problem is how much money do they have to sink into the team that even gives a strong probability that they'll win another round, or two, or three? And how much revenue (net) can they expect for winning each round?

Put it this way: If MLSE decided today that their *only* priority is winning the Cup and they'll spend whatever it takes, even if it means a loss financially, what moves could they make that would even come close to ensuring it? None. Even if every single executive, GM and coach were available and the team brought in the very best of each, remember all but one of each didn't win a Cup last year.

(Add to that the roster, with these latest contract extensions and something like 17 roster players with some form of NTC/NMC)

Point being, it's fairly easy with the resources this franchise has to put together a solid, winning (as in consistently making the playoffs) team, but it's another thing entirely to build a championship team. No amount of money guarantees that in the salary cap era.

 

[rumman]

Caving to Nylander as they did is enough proof for me. If they were serious about winning the SC they would not have handcuffed themselves with that deal which pretty much writes off next year unless they plan to get JT to waive his NMC. .

Willie says he wants to be a Leaf but is not willing to budge off his number. Not a characteristic I want in a player I hand $92m to.

As for more money by winning, how many more home playoff games does that mean for this core?

5 in 2023, 4 in 2022, N/A in 2021, N/A in 2020, 3 in 2019, 3 in 2018, 3 in 2018

That is a total of 18 in 5 years. If these guys we getting you closer to 10 playoff home games per year, sure pay them, but they just getting you to the dance and then disappearing. How much of a sample size does one need to see they cannot get it done and you need to go in a different direction? Yet here we go again. More than enough proof for me.

Kills me how ignoring the fiscal irresponsibility the Leafs have and continue to display doesn’t resonate with people, I mean it’s mind boggling………

 

[rumman]

The problem is how much money do they have to sink into the team that even gives a strong probability that they'll win another round, or two, or three? And how much revenue (net) can they expect for winning each round?

Put it this way: If MLSE decided today that their *only* priority is winning the Cup and they'll spend whatever it takes, even if it means a loss financially, what moves could they make that would even come close to ensuring it? None. Even if every single executive, GM and coach were available and the team brought in the very best of each, remember all but one of each didn't win a Cup last year.

(Add to that the roster, with these latest contract extensions and something like 17 roster players with some form of NTC/NMC)

Point being, it's fairly easy with the resources this franchise has to put together a solid, winning (as in consistently making the playoffs) team, but it's another thing entirely to build a championship team. No amount of money guarantees that in the salary cap era.

It’s not a money problem imo, it’s a cap problem. Under a cap system your stupid decisions tend to be more impactful, add to that the NTC’s and you’ve set yourself up for failure. JT is the perfect example, he’s on the decline and there’s nothing the Leafs can do about it. This franchise are world class at stupid decisions, I mean they’re elite……..

 

[ACC1224]

What d

Kills me how ignoring the fiscal irresponsibility the Leafs have and continue to display doesn’t resonate with people, I mean it’s mind boggling………

What don't you understand?

 

[Drytoast]

The current core is good for a playoff round or two. But excellent for ticket sales and merch and endorsement agreements. You likely won't get a stanley cup but you will generate a safe amount of income NOT winning the cup.

Currently the Leafs are ranked #1 in the league in valuation. And that's with the current exchange rate which is f***ing insane. So. Would they make money winning a cup? Sure. But signing a Nylander means they are guaranteeing themselves a stable amount of income and interest NOT winning the cup.

https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-valuations/?sh=3ccadcd44109

RANK
TEAM NAME
STATE
CURRENT VALUE
1-YR CHANGE IN VALUE (%)
DEBT/VALUE (%)
REVENUE
OPERATING INCOME
1. Toronto Maple Leafs Ontario $2.8 B 40 7 $281 M $127 M
2. New York Rangers New York $2.65 B 20 3 $265 M $69 M
3. Montreal Canadiens Quebec $2.3 B 24 9 $265 M $99 M
4. Los Angeles Kings California $2 B 54 5 $279 M $108 M
5. Boston Bruins Massachusetts $1.9 B 36 5 $239 M $57 M
6. Chicago Blackhawks Illinois $1.88 B 25 5 $228 M $96 M
7. Edmonton Oilers Alberta $1.85 B 45 4 $281 M $122 M
8. Philadelphia Flyers Pennsylvania $1.65 B 32 0 $219 M $53 M
9. Washington Capitals District of Columbia $1.6 B 33 12 $218 M $74 M
10. New York Islanders New York $1.55 B 52

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think they can make a few minor moves, don’t trade a 1st or top prospects. Their top priority is to have their stars sign, they don’t care if it hinders their depth in the process.

Their depth has been hindered ever since they signed Tavares, and will be for one more year. Priority should be to keep the couple of good players and suffer through one more year until the bad are gone, without wasting top picks or prospects before that.

 

[Sniper99]

If you think Willy at $11.5 is bad, which it is, wait till Marner signs

As much as I like Marner over Nylander I was hoping it would take 1 of them to trade away to get help elsewhere like a top pairing dman to roll with Reilly or goaltending, welp, f***! Willy Coastlander now extended, no one taking his contract so I guess it would be Marner, but they'll probably just re-sign him by 4-5 million more than hes worth

 

[ToneDog]

Their depth has been hindered ever since they signed Tavares, and will be for one more year. Priority should be to keep the couple of good players and suffer through one more year until the bad are gone, without wasting top picks or prospects before that.

Exactly why they should be sellers this TDL, but they won't be.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Willy probably got 16 million plus added onto his contract from his summer offer. He played hard for 40 games, got his contract and has now vanished. Its pretty insulting to his team-mates, fans , himself, etc. He probably has had a few good laughs about it. 40 games he made 16 million. Now its back to his old self, "ill play when i want too".

 

[rumman]

Willy probably got 16 million plus added onto his contract from his summer offer. He played hard for 40 games, got his contract and has now vanished. Its pretty insulting to his team-mates, fans , himself, etc. He probably has had a few good laughs about it. 40 games he made 16 million. Now its back to his old self, "ill play when i want too".

I don't think he was laughing at the anthem, he was laughing at schooling the Leafs in contract negotiations...........

 

[notDatsyuk]

Exactly why they should be sellers this TDL, but they won't be.

I'm not as concerned with them being sellers, just so long as they aren't buyers!

 

[ToneDog]

I'm not as concerned with them being sellers, just so long as they aren't buyers!

I guess whether they are "sellers" will come down to what they think their chances are closer to the TDL but agreed, do not trade away valuable assets.

 

[Menzinger]

Incompetence = 100% of the reason.
The team would have zero motivation to not want to win, at least that I can think of.
No one has ever given a plausible reason why they wouldn't want to win. I'd love to hear it if it exists.

Some folks just like to be unnecessarily dramatic. The idea that the team doesn't want to win is nonsense.

Fans can be frustrated/critical of performances, including the playoffs, but that certainly doesn't mean the team isn't trying to win

 

[saffronleaf]

newgm seems great at negotiating contracts

 

[ZEBROA]

No way Nylander would take less than Tavares or the other hometownguy Marner. The Tavares and Marner contract started this. Nylander aint better then Marner but Marner will get 4 mill more or something if the term is 8years. Nylander just want the Leafs market price.

 

[GoonieFace]

Some folks just like to be unnecessarily dramatic. The idea that the team doesn't want to win is nonsense.

Fans can be frustrated/critical of performances, including the playoffs, but that certainly doesn't mean the team isn't trying to win

There’s no incentive not to win, but I just wonder if they lack the balls to make the moves required to win.

 

[ToneDog]

Some folks just like to be unnecessarily dramatic. The idea that the team doesn't want to win is nonsense.

Fans can be frustrated/critical of performances, including the playoffs, but that certainly doesn't mean the team isn't trying to win

Nobody is saying they do not want to win. It is just not at the very top of their mission statement. If it was, Keefe and Shanny would have been long gone and they would have moved off this core. I mean who in their right minds can go back to their boss year after year and say they want to run it back after failing again and again and again and again and again and again?

 

[rumman]

Nobody is saying they do not want to win. It is just not at the very top of their mission statement. If it was, Keefe and Shanny would have been long gone and they would have moved off this core. I mean who in their right minds can go back to their boss year after year and say they want to run it back after failing again and again and again and again and again and again?

Yet they continue icing a team where half the cap goes to four forwards, you’d think by now they’d realize this will never work, yet here we are, and when JT’s out Marners up to bat to ensure the madness continues………

 

[arso40]

Willy probably got 16 million plus added onto his contract from his summer offer. He played hard for 40 games, got his contract and has now vanished. Its pretty insulting to his team-mates, fans , himself, etc. He probably has had a few good laughs about it. 40 games he made 16 million. Now its back to his old self, "ill play when i want too".

Sure ignore the fact that Mitch on that same line was even worst than what your seeing from the second line with two other players that have been having down years he still isn’t

 

[ACC1224]

Nobody is saying they do not want to win. It is just not at the very top of their mission statement. If it was, Keefe and Shanny would have been long gone and they would have moved off this core. I mean who in their right minds can go back to their boss year after year and say they want to run it back after failing again and again and again and again and again and again?

What do you think is at the very top of their mission statement?