Now that it's done are you happy with the goaltending?

[Racer88]

Death of his father and injuries have for sure played a roll. And there's no arguing with his last 3 years statistically. But to say a 28 year old goalie is on his way down after two years battling injuries on a bottom feeder.....I think is a bit premature imo

Sorry to hear about the death of his father

 

[Mess]

Falling off the goalie carousel​

There were some teams that made out well in the goaltending market. The Capitals found a legit starter in Stanley Cup champion Darcy Kuemper. The Oilers found a good goalie in Jack Campbell. Both the Red Wings and Senators improved their tandems. Heck, the Sabres might have had one of the low key best signings of the day in Eric Comrie for two seasons.

Then there were teams that tried to get on the carousel, hit their faces on a porcelain horse and fell off the ride. It started with the Wild, who re-signed Marc-Andre Fleury and managed to anger Cam Talbot to the point where GM Bill Guerin felt the need to trade him to Ottawa to avoid "drama" next season. That came four days after praising the duo as a key to the Wild's success. "My goal is to win," Guerin said. "If we have Cam Talbot or Marc-Andre Fleury in the net, we have a pretty good chance."

Now they have Fleury, who turns 38 in November, paired with Filip Gustavsson, who has played 27 NHL games. That's not just a downgrade, it's a risk.

But the roughest fall off the carousel remains the Maple Leafs. Two years ago, they had Frederik Andersen and Jack Campbell. Last season, they had Campbell with an oft-injured Petr Mrazek. Now, they have an oft-injured reclamation project in Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonov, whom the Capitals didn't qualify as a restricted free agent despite being a 25-year-old former first-round pick.

"They're both young enough that we'll give them the runway here and see if they can become the long-term solution in net," Leafs GM Kyle Dubas said.

As for not getting the Senators to pick up more than 25% of Murray's contract? "We'd love to have pushed for more and done a better deal," Dubas replied. "But it was either make that deal or move on elsewhere, and we elected to make the deal."

It's astounding that the Leafs are staking their Stanley Cup chances, and Dubas likely his job, on a battery of Murray and Samsonov. But that's what happens when you can't hop on the carousel at the right moment. They're not the only team that couldn't.

Winners and losers of Day 1 of NHL free agency, plus the best remaining players

The Red Wings and Hurricanes are among the teams which did well, while the Flyers and others did ... not so well. We digest the opening round of deals here.

www.espn.com

 

[Racer88]

It's tough, there are no easy answers. People are shitting all over Dubas and for sure he is responsible but going into the playoffs, I've liked our team every single year so not sure how much I can complain TBH. Maybe he's assembled the wrong mix of players but if you ask me which ones are the problem, I honestly can't tell you because like I said, I like our team every year and I've thought we're a top favourite for some time now. And we really played well last year I thought, we could have so easily beaten TB, for the first time in a long time I don't feel ashamed about the way we lost to that's something at least. It's not success, but saying fire everyone and tear it all down to me seems like a ridiculous POV.

If I was in charge, I would have interviewed Dubas after the end of the season the last 3 years (especially the last 2) and depending on what he said his plan was, I may have kept him on or I would have stared to look for a replacement. I'm just a dumb fan though so what I will do is sit back, watch and hope, same as every other year.

I'm not too worried about Matthews leaving. Doesn't impact this season anyway so not going to waste my time on that right now.

You don't have faith in what the bookies say and that's fine. I think they're right, we are one of the best teams in the league and if I had to rate our changes of winning the cup, I'd put us behind COL and probably TB as well but beyond that, I can't name one other team who's chances I like better. Can you?

I don't believe in curses. We've lost 6 PO series in a row. The odds of that happening as it did are well below 5%. So many people are confident that the past dictates the future, I'm not one of them. We'll see what happens this season, it could another punch in the gut or we could win the cup. So much rides on the goaltending, we'll see what happens.

It's easy to be down about what's happened, I get it and I'm pretty down about it myself. But if I put my emotions aside and look at things from a distance, well it's like I said, we're one of the favourites to win the cup this season so it's not all bad, simple as that. And that being the case, I can't take those people seriously who think Dubas is a complete moron, I just can't. That said, I do believe this is his last kick at the can and how our new goalies play will decide if we break through this season or not and if not, I think Dubas is gone.

I wonder if after this latest goalie mess are we still considered one of the favourites?

 

[4thline]

In a vacuum - no, too many of my formative hockey fan years were spent with Cujo and Belfour to be truly happy with without an Olympic quality lock starter
Relative to the rest of the league given the overall volatility in net- sure
With the cap and acquisition cost - yup. Would have liked more retention on Murray but it's hard to complain given the picks and dollars being thrown around at bigger risks

 

[stealth1]

awesome idea. where? if cambell got five x five (yuck) then the going price via trade for a num 1 (which there are like 5 or 6 in the nhl) starts at a price no one would of been happy with.

the risk of murray at two years with a third and seventh and sam at 1 year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cambell at 5x5 AINEC

All goalies that were available had risk. Since that's the case I would rather they went with Comrie and Samsonov. Much cheaper and leaves money to upgrade the bottom 6.

 

[Srsly]

Seeing as I wanted Matt Murray to become a Maple Leaf before he went to Ottawa and long before we had Jack… so yeah, giddy up cowboys.

Sammy is great insurance for backup and could actually steal the net.

It’s go time boys

I wanted him before he went to Ottawa as well. But after the last two seasons I’m apprehensive to say the least. I don’t hate either goalie in a bubble but I was sort of hoping for lower risk with one of them, even if that meant lower potential reward. I guess we’ll wait and see though. People keep commenting on the second half of Campbell’s season but we can’t pretend he wasn’t vezina quality in the first half and wasn’t starting caliber the previous season. Heck, even in the playoffs he looked amazing aside from two dud performances. I don’t think it’s fair to blame entirely him for our losses(like some folks seem to)

I also acknowledge that being a Leaf fan living in the LA area, I really wanted Campbell to succeed due to following him for years. So perhaps I have a bias.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

*low risk, high reward.

Low risk because if 1 or both do not work out, their contracts are not binding and easy to get out from under them.

On the flip side, if Campbell shits the bed in Edmonton, they have a 5 year 5 million dollar contract to bury.

Absolutely worst case scenerio Kjellgrin (or however it's spelled) comes in and puts pressure on them and he played great last season.

Its high risk because both goalies are coming off sub par seasons and one having a bunch of injuries. If they both have sub par seasons again, you've wasted another year of our core being in their primes and they get closer to free agency.

I agree about the term but if Murray has another season like last year, he might not be easy to move, or at least will cost us to move again. Which we've already done with Mrazek and Marleau.

There really wasn't many good scenarios when it comes to Goaltending this year but my best scenario would have been Blackwood and Fleury.

 

[stealth1]

Its high risk because both goalies are coming off sub par seasons and one having a bunch of injuries. If they both have sub par seasons again, you've wasted another year of our core being in their primes and they get closer to free agency.

I agree about the term but if Murray has another season like last year, he might not be easy to move, or at least will cost us to move again. Which we've already done with Mrazek and Marleau.

There really wasn't many good scenarios when it comes to Goaltending this year but my best scenario would have been Blackwood and Fleury.

You're right there wasn't as they all had risks. If you're taking a risk why not go for 2 cheaper options. Go with 2 goalies that haven't broken out yet like was rumored. It makes no sense to spend that much cap space on Murray.

 

[Stephen]

I’m at peace with the Murray and Samsonov parlay bet. There seems to be a lot of risk but also a good deal of upside, as well as a revamped goalie department. So fingers crossed.

Philosophically I’m not happy with the organization’s lack of focus on the goalie department as a process overall. They haven’t shown a great understanding of the position, don’t commit resources to it, don’t draft and develop well, don’t proactively solve the position long term and make bets with long odds. Save these reclamation projects for middle six forward positions. Not a position that should be an organizational pillar.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I wonder if after this latest goalie mess are we still considered one of the favourites?

Odds current as of today.

 

[Drytoast]

Its high risk because both goalies are coming off sub par seasons and one having a bunch of injuries. If they both have sub par seasons again, you've wasted another year of our core being in their primes and they get closer to free agency.

I agree about the term but if Murray has another season like last year, he might not be easy to move, or at least will cost us to move again. Which we've already done with Mrazek and Marleau.

There really wasn't many good scenarios when it comes to Goaltending this year but my best scenario would have been Blackwood and Fleury.

low risk because their contracts are moveable. If it's a complete tire fire mid way through the season, Dubas can make a move to get out from either goalie.

low risk because the odds are good 1 of the two will find their game. (which is all he needs)

low riks because if all else fails they still have Kjellgrin.

It's low risk. High reward.

 

[stealth1]

low risk because their contracts are moveable. If it's a complete tire fire mid way through the season, Dubas can make a move to get out from either goalie.

low risk because the odds are good 1 of the two will find their game. (which is all he needs)

low riks because if all else fails they still have Kjellgrin.

It's low risk. High reward.

For a cup contender that's still not good enough.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

The Murray trade is still bad, but at least Samsonov can play games at an NHL level. .905 sv% and 3.00ga and this team still gets 105-110pts. I'm comfortable, but this wasn't an upgrade

 

[stealth1]

The Murray trade is still bad, but at least Samsonov can play games at an NHL level. .905 sv% and 3.00ga and this team still gets 105-110pts. I'm comfortable, but this wasn't an upgrade

That was last season. With Detroit, Buffalo and Ottawa getting better there isn't easy points this season coming up. I'm not saying they won't make the playoffs but the races will be a lot tighter then last year.

 

[Bomber0104]

There's definitely a chance one of the two can re-establish as a credible starter.

May take more than one season though and not this upcoming one, that's the issue...

We need that to happen right here, right now.

 

[AllDay28]

Nah I wanted Vaz from Tampa. Fire dubass mirite

 

[Tak7]

No - it's a downgrade from what they had last year, and to be in a position where you're success or failure as a franchise comes down to a hope and a prayer, is bonkers to me.

They've backed themselves into a corner where they have to make hail mary attempts at sorting out their goaltending, and that's just not good enough at this stage of this project.

 

[zeke]

A reminder for those panicking that with just the backups in net posting a combined .890sv%, the Leafs won at a 107pt pace.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

I think Ottawa thought the same thing when they got Murray originally.
I keep hearing wow Samsonite is was a 1st rdr. He could also be a bust.

Saying all this id rather gamble on these 2 potential then on Jack Campbell. Who we know what were going to get.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Death of his father and injuries have for sure played a roll. And there's no arguing with his last 3 years statistically. But to say a 28 year old goalie is on his way down after two years battling injuries on a bottom feeder.....I think is a bit premature imo

Definitely. I hit rock bottom when my father died 2 years ago. I'm just starting my way back. And im 58. Losing someone so close like that can have a tremendous effect on an individual.

 

[Blaylock38]

Yes I am content with the Tandem. I wanted the Leafs to get Murray when Pitt was rumoured to be moving him, and he went to Ott. I think it would be tough to play on a lowly team and stay motivated. I think you need to take risk in hopes of reaching the next level. It seems like there is a belief that both Murray and Samsonov might have a higher ceiling or tier to their game than achieved, more so than their belief in Campbell having it over the long term. Samonsov is very intriguing, goalies take longer to develop and hopefully we have found something here, but only if the Leafs new revamped goaltending department can get it out of him. There is upside here, and he is an RFA at season's end.

I like the flexibility going into the season, we are not married to either of these goalies yet and if they struggle, we still have time and options in the regular season to replace. If we had Campbell locked up long term and he had the same season he had last year. We are stuck and don't have that same flexibility. If we sign Campbell than he is our Guy. This tandem should at least provide us with decent goaltending to start, with the potential for one to be our Guy.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Avs and the Leafs for the most part have a smart management group.

Both teams clearly had cap space to retain a 5m 30+ goalie but bet against these goalies. Both teams went with
5.5-6.5m tandems.

CJ just said on his podcast that Ottawa had another offer for Murray to retain 25% so Leafs were never going to get 50% retention.

Maybe Dubas knew what he was doing here?

 

[Blaylock38]

Definitely. I hit rock bottom when my father died 2 years ago. I'm just starting my way back. And im 58. Losing someone so close like that can have a tremendous effect on an individual.

I am Sorry to hear that, it's nice to hear that you starting to find your way back though. It is very difficult to. This is a very important factor to consider. Thank you for sharing.

 

[BlueBaron]

Totally disappointed. I like Samsanov as back up but I'm not thrilled with Murray. We needed Kuemper. I guess we'll see but I'm pretty tired of injury prone goalies.

 

[Racer88]

Odds current as of today.

Ok fair enough and I hope they are right.

But

A reminder for those panicking that with just the backups in net posting a combined .890sv%, the Leafs won at a 107pt pace.

but not in the playoffs