Norris Trophy Power Rankings: Rielly on top with gaudy offensive numbers

[LeafsNation75]

So your in agreement that Burns is now the front leader? If not than that is also the definition of hypocrisy.

I'm saying if others are calling Burns the favorite because he leads defensemen in scoring, how come they didn't say the same thing about Rielly when he was leading them in scoring? So that's the definition of hypocrisy.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Giordano >>>> Rielly

If Giordano wins the Norris. If he can sustain his play. I would not have a problem with this. He leads the Flames in PK time, ice time, and has 40 points in 42 games. He is a great all around Defenceman fitting for the Norris is defined as.

The top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position".

He has some tough competition in Karlsson and Burns, but he certainly deserves to be in this group of the top 3 at this time.

 

[ole ole]

I'm saying if others are calling Burns the favorite because he leads defensemen in scoring, how come they didn't say the same thing about Rielly when he was leading them in scoring? So that's the definition of hypocrisy.

Did you believe that Rielly was the favorite when he was leading the D-man in pts?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Did you believe that Rielly was the favorite when he was leading the D-man in pts?

I always thought his stats should put him into the conversation as contender with a legit chance to win it.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Marcus Petterson should win it.

At the pace of his last 4 games he has it all wrapped up, ha ha. 4 games 5 points +8. Now all he has to do is keep that pace and this won’t even be a contest.

On a serious note, Pettersson has been getting better by the week. That deal is looking like a steal. I was very happy with Pettersson’s game for a 22 year old rookie during his first 14 games with the Pens playing a sturdy stay at home style. Now Pettersson has started joining rushes and using his skating and vision to help the offense. Can’t expect another 4 game stretch like this anytime soon but still impressive nonetheless. 5 points and +8 in 4 games for a 22 year d rookie is always nice. Pens fans have been really happy with this deal. Really helps because the Pens had no top defenseman prospects. Rutherford and his scouts did their homework on this deal.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If Giordano wins the Norris. If he can sustain his play. I would not have a problem with this. He leads the Flames in PK time, ice time, and has 40 points in 42 games. He is a great all around Defenceman fitting for the Norris is defined as.

The top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position".

He has some tough competition in Karlsson and Burns, but he certainly deserves to be in this group of the top 3 at this time.

Besides the minutes played and +/- which others say is not the best stat used to say how good or bad a player is, Rielly has more goals and points Giordano. As for assists Rielly is only 2 behind him in that stat and I'm confident in saying that number will keep going up before the regular season is over.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Rielly is still leading all defensemen in total goals with 13 and is only 4 points behind Bruins with 45. So his argument is far from gone.

Also this reply is exactly what I was referring to before. When Rielly was leading all defensemen in scoring we were told it didn't matter about his chance to win the Norris. All of the sudden now that Brent Burns is leading them in scoring all of the sudden it matters.

I think the only way Rielly has a chance at the Norris was to finish 1st in points. Several defenseman have better overall games and I can’t see him being in the running otherwise. It is just a matter of time before Karlsson passes him up in points and I can’t see him in the running at that point. Players like Letang and Gio are also much better overall defenseman. I feel he is the new flavor of the month and all the talking heads hyped him up when he had a giant point gap from the rest of the defensemen. Now that he has been surpassed and others gaining his time is done.

 

[22Brad Park]

Besides the minutes played and +/- which others say is not the best stat used to say how good or bad a player is, Rielly has more goals and points Giordano. As for assists Rielly is only 2 behind him in that stat and I'm confident in saying that number will keep going up before the regular season is over.

Reilly sucks in own end.Watched Bruins embarrass that guy to many times to count.Look at goal against vs Preds other nite (3rd goal) He was lost.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Rielly is still leading all defensemen in total goals with 13 and is only 4 points behind Bruins with 45. So his argument is far from gone.

Also this reply is exactly what I was referring to before. When Rielly was leading all defensemen in scoring we were told it didn't matter about his chance to win the Norris. All of the sudden now that Brent Burns is leading them in scoring all of the sudden it matters.

Burns and EK drives the offense for San Jose. Marner, Matthews and Tavares drives the offense for Toronto, Rielly doesnt.
Rielly is also worse defensively than EK for example.

Rielly is a very good player but him being among the favorites for Norris is stupid. He is maybe a top 10 defensemen in the NHL. Which is incredible, Rielly has taken a big step the last couple of seasons but he is not the best defensemen in the NHL.

Do anyone actually believe Rielly would be their #1 pick among defensemen if they could pick one defensemen in the NHL to play for their team this season?
Players like EK tilts the ice when he plays, no clue how anyone can actually believe Rielly is better.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Besides the minutes played and +/- which others say is not the best stat used to say how good or bad a player is, Rielly has more goals and points Giordano. As for assists Rielly is only 2 behind him in that stat and I'm confident in saying that number will keep going up before the regular season is over.

So according to the logic you just presented we should judge the best defenseman by goals and points only? Sadly the Norris gets picked like that way too often and the best overall defenseman rarely wins but your assertion is ridiculous. Rielly has more goals and points than Giordano so therefore he is of course the better defenseman. Minutes played, +/-, and player assessment charts mean nothing. Nothing to see here just turn away and look at these points. Alrighty then.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Besides the minutes played and +/- which others say is not the best stat used to say how good or bad a player is, Rielly has more goals and points Giordano. As for assists Rielly is only 2 behind him in that stat and I'm confident in saying that number will keep going up before the regular season is over.

Hey man, get over it. I don't care if you want to post Rielly is the next coming of Bobby Orr. Though that would be a stretch even for you. I don't care how hard you pump Rielly's tires here since I don't think you have a unbiased bone in your body when it comes to any thread with a blue and white player in it.

But to address your concerns about someone endorsing Giordano, there are many here, not just one poster mind you, think about that for a second. He plays near 25 mins a game, he plays in all situations, unlike Rielly who plays 22 mins, in almost exclusively offensive situations. So stop injecting Rielly into a post about Giordano. Others are free to believe what they want here. And I know the 3 best D men that fit the all around definition are Karlsson, Burns, Giordano.

If the Norris did not have the all around definition, and just focused on sheltered offensive mins, you may have a case. But comparing Rielly as an all around D man to Karlsson, Burns or Giordano is like comparing hamburger to 3 AAA steaks.

This will become more evident as we get closer to game 82. Already since this thread began Burns has taken over the points lead, and Karlsson has had 21 points over his last 12 games. While Rielly is normalizing. It's your hullicination that you read people are only concentrating on offensive stats. I have long maintained the award should be given to the best all around D man, this is why a few posts above I agreed with a poster that Gioradano would be a worthy winner. if anyone is making contradicting statements here it is you, and you solely because you do not read posts, or you only selectively read.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Hey man, get over it. I don't care if you want to post Rielly is the next coming of Bobby Orr. Though that would be a stretch even for you. I don't care how hard you pump Rielly's tires here since I don't think you have a unbiased bone in your body when it comes to any thread with a blue and white player in it.

But to address your concerns about someone endorsing Giordano, there are many here, not just one poster mind you, think about that for a second. He plays near 25 mins a game, he plays in all situations, unlike Rielly who plays 22 mins, in almost exclusively offensive situations. So stop injecting Rielly into a post about Giordano. Others are free to believe what they want here. And I know the 3 best D men that fit the all around definition are Karlsson, Burns, Giordano.

If the Norris did not have the all around definition, and just focused on sheltered offensive mins, you may have a case. But comparing Rielly as an all around D man to Karlsson, Burns or Giordano is like comparing hamburger to 3 AAA steaks. This will become more evident as we get closer to game 82. Already since this thread began Burns has taken over the points lead, and Karlsson has had 21 points over his last 12 games. While Rielly is normalizing. It's your hullicination that you read people are only concentrating on offensive stats. I have long maintained the award should be given to the best all around D man, this is why a few posts above I agreed with a poster that Gioradano would be a worthy winner. if anyone is making contradicting statements here it is you, and you solely because you do not read posts, or you only selectively read.

A few pages ago you told someone this was a Norris Trophy topic, so using your logic I can inject Rielly all I want and this is not a specific thread just about Giordano.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Burns and EK drives the offense for San Jose. Marner, Matthews and Tavares drives the offense for Toronto, Rielly doesnt.
Rielly is also worse defensively than EK for example.

Rielly is a very good player but him being among the favorites for Norris is stupid. He is maybe a top 10 defensemen in the NHL. Which is incredible, Rielly has taken a big step the last couple of seasons but he is not the best defensemen in the NHL.

Do anyone actually believe Rielly would be their #1 pick among defensemen if they could pick one defensemen in the NHL to play for their team this season?
Players like EK tilts the ice when he plays, no clue how anyone can actually believe Rielly is better.

I don’t think anyone does besides a few Leafs fans. I think most of them would agree with your assessment.

 

[TheDoldrums]

If the Norris did not have the all around definition, and just focused on sheltered offensive mins, you may have a case. But comparing Rielly as an all around D man to Karlsson, Burns or Giordano is like comparing hamburger to 3 AAA steaks.

Rielly has "sheltered offensive minutes" huh

Ozone start %

1. Burns - 41.3%
2. Karlsson - 40.2%
3. Rielly - 36.73%

Dzone start %

1. Rielly - 31.44%
2. Karlsson - 26.55%
3. Burns - 23.11%

Has also played against tougher competition this year while carrying around Ron Hainsey.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Rielly has "sheltered offensive minutes" huh

Ozone start %

1. Burns - 41.3%
2. Karlsson - 40.2%
3. Rielly - 36.73%

Dzone start %

1. Rielly - 31.44%
2. Karlsson - 26.55%
3. Burns - 23.11%

Has also played against tougher competition this year while carrying around Ron Hainsey.

TOI/GP

1. Karlsson 24:52
2. Giordano 24:46
2. Burns 24:17
4. Rielly 22:27

SH TOI
1. Giordano 115:13
2. Burns 82:10
3. Karlsson 71:39
4. Rielly 52:36

SAT% 5 v 5
1. Karlsson 60.13%
2. Burns 57.91
3. Giordano 55.51%
4. Rielly 53.38%

Rielly is not used in all situations as much as the other 3, he has the fewest TOI/GP compared to the other 3 and he has poorer possession metrics. He is clearly not as good all around as Giordano, Burns, or Karlsson are.

Do you honestly think Rielly is a better all around D man than the 3 of these when he is 44th in TOI/GP for D men when his ice time is limited to mostly PP and 5 v 5 play which all of these D men play.

 

[guzzy]

Rielly has "sheltered offensive minutes" huh

Ozone start %

1. Burns - 41.3%
2. Karlsson - 40.2%
3. Rielly - 36.73%

Dzone start %

1. Rielly - 31.44%
2. Karlsson - 26.55%
3. Burns - 23.11%

Has also played against tougher competition this year while carrying around Ron Hainsey.

And the above stats highlight why Gio should win.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Do you honestly think Rielly is a better all around D man than the 3 of these when he is 44th in TOI/GP for D men when his ice time is limited to mostly PP and 5 v 5 play which all of these D men play.

I'm not certain about the correct order for this award yet. I do know it's silly to call Rielly's minutes sheltered when both Burns and Karlsson have started less often in the d-zone, more often in the o-zone and played against easier competition.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

TOI/GP

1. Karlsson 24:52
2. Giordano 24:46
2. Burns 24:17
4. Rielly 22:27

SH TOI
1. Giordano 115:13
2. Burns 82:10
3. Karlsson 71:39
4. Rielly 52:36

SAT% 5 v 5
1. Karlsson 60.13%
2. Burns 57.91
3. Giordano 55.51%
4. Rielly 53.38%

Rielly is not used in all situations as much as the other 3, he has the fewest TOI/GP compared to the other 3 and he has poorer possession metrics. He is clearly not as good all around as Giordano, Burns, or Karlsson are.

Do you honestly think Rielly is a better all around D man than the 3 of these when he is 44th in TOI/GP for D men when his ice time is limited to mostly PP and 5 v 5 play which all of these D men play.

I would like to see Letang’s numbers in this. Just a hunch it might be better than all of them.

 

[NyQuil]

What’s dumb about comparing zone starts across teams is that some teams have more offensive zone starts than others.

I remember we had a Senators team at one point during a season that had no one below 50% offensive zone starts because they generated so many offensive zone face offs.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not certain about the correct order for this award yet. I do know it's silly to call Rielly's minutes sheltered when both Burns and Karlsson have started less often in the d-zone, more often in the o-zone and played against easier competition.

I don't think I have ever heard a poster claim Karlsson and Burns are coached to play against lesser competition until now, when they out minute Rielly by over 2 mins a game, and also play more PK. Also 5 v 5 they have superior possession metrics to boot that illustrate their effectiveness at even strength.

Here are the numbers again. Think about it. It wont' be hard to come to a conclusion who the better all around D men are here, and how they are used. I will add Letang on @CrosbyMalkin suggestion.

If anyone looks sheltered here, it's Rielly.

TOI/GP

1. Letang 26:05
2. Karlsson 24:52
3. Giordano 24:46
4. Burns 24:17
5. Rielly 22:27

SH TOI
1. Giordano 115:13
2. Letang 83:42
2. Burns 82:10
3. Karlsson 71:39
4. Rielly 52:36

SAT% 5 v 5
1. Karlsson 60.13%
2. Burns 57.91
3. Giordano 55.51%
4. Letang 53>79%
5. Rielly 53.38%

 

[TheDoldrums]

I don't think I have ever heard a poster claim Karlsson and Burns are coached to play against lesser competition until now, when they out minute Rielly by over 2 mins a game, and also play more PK. Also 5 v 5 they have superior possession metrics to boot that illustrate their effectiveness at even strength.

Here are the numbers again. Think about it. It wont' be hard to come to a conclusion who the better all around D men are here, and how they are used. I will add Letang on @CrosbyMalkin suggestion.

If anyone looks sheltered here, it's Rielly.

TOI/GP

1. Letang 26:05
2. Karlsson 24:52
3. Giordano 24:46
4. Burns 24:17
5. Rielly 22:27

SH TOI
1. Giordano 115:13
2. Letang 83:42
2. Burns 82:10
3. Karlsson 71:39
4. Rielly 52:36

SAT% 5 v 5
1. Karlsson 60.13%
2. Burns 57.91
3. Giordano 55.51%
4. Letang 53>79%
5. Rielly 53.38%

If anyone is sheltered it's the San Jose guys, Vlasic is consistently given the d-zone starts and tough matchups. No Leafs are close to the TOI leaders for their position, that's just their coach's philosophy.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If anyone is sheltered it's the San Jose guys, Vlasic is consistently given the d-zone starts and tough matchups. No Leafs are close to the TOI leaders for their position, that's just their coach's philosophy.

Vlasic and zone starts because Deboer knows his best chance for offence is to have Karlsson and or Burns on the ice to score a goal in the O zone is your reasoning they are sheltered, while ignoring the stats above. You should do yourself a favour and see who they play against and who is on the ice late in the game with a lead. You may learn something. Burns and Karlsson are more sheltered than Rielly because of zone starts. That's it folks. Zone starts. Have a chuckle everyone reading this reasoning.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Vlasic and zone starts because Deboer knows his best chance for offence is to have Karlsson and or Burns on the ice to score a goal in the O zone is your reasoning they are sheltered, while ignoring the stats above. You should do yourself a favour and see who they play against and who is on the ice late in the game with a lead. You may learn something. Burns and Karlsson are more sheltered than Rielly because of zone starts. That's it folks. Zone starts. Have a chuckle everyone reading this reasoning.

Not just zone starts, competition too. The data is pretty clear that Vlasic faces the stars and Karlsson/Burns haven't. Vlasic gets a very extreme deployment, he's been given brutal d-zone starts and elite competition for awhile. He allows the Sharks offensive defensemen to be sheltered, or at least moreso than Rielly.

 

[Kale Hulls]

Reilly's not leading defensemen in points anymore? Quick, somebody get me some obscure advanced stats, I need it ten minutes ago!!!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Not just zone starts, competition too. The data is pretty clear that Vlasic faces the stars and Karlsson/Burns haven't. Vlasic gets a very extreme deployment, he's been given brutal d-zone starts and elite competition for awhile. He allows the Sharks offensive defensemen to be sheltered, or at least moreso than Rielly.

If zone starts is how you measure competition. You need to ask Babcock why is Rielly 4th on the Leafs in DZFO behind Zaitsev, Gardiner, and Hainsey? If you want to talk about Vlasic, explain this for us? Rielly is pretty sheltered using your own reasoning right? Oops.