Norris Trophy Power Rankings: Rielly on top with gaudy offensive numbers

[LeafFever]

Even with a Sabre fan bias, I can honestly say I feel for you tempered Leafs fans. Seems the Leafs just get clobbered with the hot takes. The blame does goth both ways, though. I'd hate if over-exuberant fans, and their haters were ruining me watching my team finally get good left and right.

I have never in my life seen a team with such a low GA destroyed more than any team for it's "horrific" defense. There's more hype than the Islanders got last year for the worst GA in a decade.

It reminds me of the time I commented on the incredibly overhype of the Leafs "Health" 2 years ago...

Was the Leafs Good Health last season overhyped?

Everything with the Leafs gets so blown up compared to other teams.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I have never in my life seen a team with such a low GA destroyed more than any team for it's "horrific" defense. There's more hype than the Islanders got last year for the worst GA in a decade.

It reminds me of the time I commented on the incredibly overhype of the Leafs "Health" 2 years ago...

Was the Leafs Good Health last season overhyped?

Everything with the Leafs gets so blown up compared to other teams.

Your own forum's post game threads seem to have a few fans harping on the need to add defense as a big priority and how Andersen's covering for a lot of the issues.

 

[Daz28]

I have never in my life seen a team with such a low GA destroyed more than any team for it's "horrific" defense. There's more hype than the Islanders got last year for the worst GA in a decade.

It reminds me of the time I commented on the incredibly overhype of the Leafs "Health" 2 years ago...

Was the Leafs Good Health last season overhyped?

Everything with the Leafs gets so blown up compared to other teams.

It's cyclical, but it's gon be the Leafs for a while now. The Sabres are hoping to join you guys "post tank" in the hot takes sweepstakes soon.

 

[LeafFever]

Your own forum's post game threads seem to have a few fans harping on the need to add defense as a big priority and how Andersen's covering for a lot of the issues.

But that doesn't mean that it deserves this much crap.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But that doesn't mean that it deserves this much crap.

I'm just pointing out that the criticisms of the Leafs defense isn't just non-Leaf fans bringing it up. Leaf fans also seem to think it needs addressing. If it was as good as you infer, this shouldn't be the case. I'd be surprised if Nashville fans are screaming "we need defense!" after their losses.

 

[LeafFever]

I'm just pointing out that the criticisms of the Leafs defense isn't just non-Leaf fans bringing it up. Leaf fans also seem to think it needs addressing. If it was as good as you infer, this shouldn't be the case. I'd be surprised if Nashville fans are screaming "we need defense!" after their losses.

When have I stated the Leafs D is great though? Because I say it's not as bad as most say on here? The Leafs D is talked about like they are 31st in GA.

And for the record, the Leafs DO need to get another D.

 

[joe dirte]

I'm just pointing out that the criticisms of the Leafs defense isn't just non-Leaf fans bringing it up. Leaf fans also seem to think it needs addressing. If it was as good as you infer, this shouldn't be the case. I'd be surprised if Nashville fans are screaming "we need defense!" after their losses.

An improvement would be nice with the aim Being a cup. I don't think winning a cup with this defense is impossible (they're still top 3 or 4 in the league) but the chances would be better with another top dman on the right side. Tampa is a massive obstacle.

Does it "need addressing"? If we want a chance at a cup, no. If we want a to be the favourites, yes.

Pittsburgh won a cup with a comparable defense when letang was injured. And while Matthew's and Tavares are not crosby and malkin the rest of the offense is better.

Is it the best in the league? No. Not elite. It's the weakest part if the leafs. But it's not weak in terms of the whole league by any stretch.

I also dont want to bring in anything that causes long term cap issues. The leafs have spent the last couple of years drafting dmen (liljegren, sandin) and signing good young prospect type dmen (rosen, Bergman, ozhiganov, and even zaitsev) to shore up their defense. If ANY of them progress it makes it easier to start filling holes.

When people bring up the 5th best GAA in the league, that's more in response to people claiming the leafs d is downright bad. It's not. You can't have one of the best GAA in the league with a terrible defense no matter who your goalie is, and the leafs aren't even the worst GAA with sparks in net, let alone a bonafide starter.

Let that sink in. The leafs goals against is somewhere around 15th in the league. With what was supposed to their AHL starter in net. Does that scream "terrible defense" to you? Yet that's what all the mouth breathers here will try to convince you... the leafs defense is among the very worst..... maybe, just MAYBE the leafs d is a little better than some of the fools around here will have you believe.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Leafs baby and we got JT and the Norris woooooo!!

Tavares, Matthews, Marner, and this year's Norris frontrunner, MOOOOOOOORILES!!!!!!

Not sure what any of these guys have to do with Rielly and the Norris. But Rielly's game today could not illustrate better than I can explain why he is so mediocre defensively and why he is not the best Defenceman this year despite what you guys claim. Most that watch the game see this happen far too often. So you are not fooling anyone here.

Rielly standing around leaving the Wild uncovered for a goal.


Rielly cheating to go on the offence which leads to the Wild's game winning goal.

 

[The Podium]

Except those "fancy shmancy" stats sort of don't help his cause.

TJ Brodie and Dumoulin are a far cry from Hainsey. Karlsson you can make an argument for considering Dillon isn’t quite in the level of the other 2 but his QoC is significantly lower.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

TJ Brodie and Dumoulin are a far cry from Hainsey. Karlsson you can make an argument for considering Dillon isn’t quite in the level of the other 2 but his QoC is significantly lower.

So Hainsey is forcing Reilly to make terrible defensive decisions in his own end ?

Weird, he didn't do that when we won a cup with him.

 

[The Podium]

So Hainsey is forcing Reilly to make terrible defensive decisions in his own end ?

Weird, he didn't do that when we won a cup with him.

Weird he is also a couple years removed from that and pushing 40.

Yes, Hainsey is not the player he was when he came to Toronto. On most nights Rielly is defending for the 2 of them. When Hainsey misses his coverage or is caught lost behind the net, Rielly is on the ice for those shots against, or he tries to cover for his line mate and gets burned. There is a reason why Toronto is desperately looking for a top pairing RHD.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Weird he is also a couple years removed from that and pushing 40.

Yes, Hainsey is not the player he was when he came to Toronto. On most nights Rielly is defending for the 2 of them. When Hainsey misses his coverage or is caught lost behind the net, Rielly is on the ice for those shots against, or he tries to cover for his line mate and gets burned. There is a reason why Toronto is desperately looking for a top pairing RHD.

In either case, Reilly is not a guy I would put in that "list of 5" that was posted. Even if you have a terrible partner, your underlying numbers should still show how well you play. His doesn't look good and seeing him play, you can probably stop blaming Hainsey for all of his mistakes, because it's clear it's not Ron that's causing him to do anything he isn't doing already on his own accord.

Numbers seem to show that Reilly & Gardiner work well together, Hainsey seems to work well with Dermott in a small sample size and no one works well with Zaitsev.

I'd still put the Norris 1-2 as Letang & Giordano.

Letang plays 20mins EVS and about 2+ on the PK. Reilly plays around 18mins EVS and barely 1min on the PK. A true Norris candidate should be the guy you use in all situations and even in shutdown situations, I don't think I would put Reilly out there in that situation, not yet, he will be as he gets better, but not yet.

 

[The Podium]

In either case, Reilly is not a guy I would put in that "list of 5" that was posted. Even if you have a terrible partner, your underlying numbers should still show how well you play. His doesn't look good and seeing him play, you can probably stop blaming Hainsey for all of his mistakes, because it's clear it's not Ron that's causing him to do anything he isn't doing already on his own accord.

Numbers seem to show that Reilly & Gardiner work well together, Hainsey seems to work well with Dermott in a small sample size and no one works well with Zaitsev.

I'd still put the Norris 1-2 as Letang & Giordano.

Rielly and Gardiner look well in limited sample, with mostly Ozone starts and all their stars on the ice usually late in game trying to tie it. So of course their corsi numbers will look good.

You clearly have not watched the leafs if you don’t think Hainsey is an anchor on that pairing.

And your Letang number 1 is biased and if not Rielly I’d have Giordano there easily.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But that doesn't mean that it deserves this much crap.

What's the crap? That he's not the overall best in the league? He really isn't. He's the best offensive defenseman right now, sure, but defensively there's a lot there that doesn't get covered up by the points he produces to make you say "Oh well, he's truly the best overall defender in the league."

You think that means people are crapping on him, the kid is young, you notice the guys he's being compared to have honed their craft and are well rounded for the most part? All are 28+ yrs old.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Rielly and Gardiner look well in limited sample, with mostly Ozone starts and all their stars on the ice usually late in game trying to tie it. So of course their corsi numbers will look good.

You clearly have not watched the leafs if you don’t think Hainsey is an anchor on that pairing.

And your Letang number 1 is biased and if not Rielly I’d have Giordano there easily.

Except the fact that all metrics points to you being wrong, yeah...sure..."bias."

 

[joe dirte]

Weird he is also a couple years removed from that and pushing 40.

Yes, Hainsey is not the player he was when he came to Toronto. On most nights Rielly is defending for the 2 of them. When Hainsey misses his coverage or is caught lost behind the net, Rielly is on the ice for those shots against, or he tries to cover for his line mate and gets burned. There is a reason why Toronto is desperately looking for a top pairing RHD.

Hainsey isnt as bad as you're trying to say he is.

But yeah, this has to be his last year.

 

[joe dirte]

In either case, Reilly is not a guy I would put in that "list of 5" that was posted. Even if you have a terrible partner, your underlying numbers should still show how well you play. His doesn't look good and seeing him play, you can probably stop blaming Hainsey for all of his mistakes, because it's clear it's not Ron that's causing him to do anything he isn't doing already on his own accord.

Numbers seem to show that Reilly & Gardiner work well together, Hainsey seems to work well with Dermott in a small sample size and no one works well with Zaitsev.

I'd still put the Norris 1-2 as Letang & Giordano.

Letang plays 20mins EVS and about 2+ on the PK. Reilly plays around 18mins EVS and barely 1min on the PK. A true Norris candidate should be the guy you use in all situations and even in shutdown situations, I don't think I would put Reilly out there in that situation, not yet, he will be as he gets better, but not yet.

The ice time is not because hisbplayvisnt good enough to play more though.

Its bizarre. In this thread we've had penguins fans argue rielly doesn't play enough to be considered a top dman, and Tampa fans say hedmans ice time is getting cut because they are saving him for the playoffs.

Which is it? Does lower ice time mean the coach doesn't want to depend on him, or that he doesn't want to wear him down, because he needs his top dman ready for the playoffs? Is hedman, the defending norris winner, not good enough anymore? Gotta cut his ice time?

Which do you think? Do you REALLY think Babcock isnt playing rielly more because he doesnt trust him to? I mean, take a quick look at guys like Matthew's ice time last year.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Not sure what any of these guys have to do with Rielly and the Norris. But Rielly's game today could not illustrate better than I can explain why he is so mediocre defensively and why he is not the best Defenceman this year despite what you guys claim. Most that watch the game see this happen far too often. So you are not fooling anyone here.

Rielly standing around leaving the Wild uncovered for a goal.


Rielly cheating to go on the offence which leads to the Wild's game winning goal.

So I was right.

 

[The Apologist]

Not sure what any of these guys have to do with Rielly and the Norris. But Rielly's game today could not illustrate better than I can explain why he is so mediocre defensively and why he is not the best Defenceman this year despite what you guys claim. Most that watch the game see this happen far too often. So you are not fooling anyone here.

Rielly standing around leaving the Wild uncovered for a goal.


Rielly cheating to go on the offence which leads to the Wild's game winning goal.

I could literally post videos like this for every single defenseman in the NHL.
But you're probably right. A couple of plays in game 40 of the season is a clear indication of a player's full ability.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Not sure what any of these guys have to do with Rielly and the Norris. But Rielly's game today could not illustrate better than I can explain why he is so mediocre defensively and why he is not the best Defenceman this year despite what you guys claim. Most that watch the game see this happen far too often. So you are not fooling anyone here.

Rielly standing around leaving the Wild uncovered for a goal.


Rielly cheating to go on the offence which leads to the Wild's game winning goal.

Dont forget the shorthanded chance off the post when he mind-numbingly decided to skate directly at one of the guys leading to a total breakaway.

 

[Alwalys]

I wouldn't say that. The guy can pass for sure, but he rockets them off sticks more than he connects. He's a beast because his strength, hands, and agility for such a large human is incredibly rare. When he's on and moving he's nearly impossible to stop. If the puck could stick to him the way it does EK65 he'd be hands down the most dominant hockey player in the league.

stretch passing happens whether it is received or not. he stretch passes a LOT.
point being, he's playing the defense position from the back, not as a forward, as the incorrect claim went.

 

[Iapyi]

I wish irony would manifest itself physically in the form of chocolate pudding because I would chow down for days.

Leaf Nation has certainly done an about face on what constitutes a Norris worthy defenceman.

Just a pointer for you.

Leaf Nation is not the domain of a singular poster.

There are more arguments on the Leafs board amongst fellow Maple Leaf fans then there is on the main board, partially because on the main board there is not a lot of logic or real thought put into the posts by Maple Leaf Haters. It is basically just petty childish jealousy and hatred.

Just felt bad for you and how silly you come across with such sweeping brushstroke generalizations. YW.

 

[Sugi21]

A true Norris dman tilts the ice in his teams favour at both ends of the ice and sorry Rielly only gets it done on one side!!!!

 

[NyQuil]

Just a pointer for you.

Leaf Nation is not the domain of a singular poster.

There are more arguments on the Leafs board amongst fellow Maple Leaf fans then there is on the main board, partially because on the main board there is not a lot of logic or real thought put into the posts by Maple Leaf Haters. It is basically just petty childish jealousy and hatred.

Just felt bad for you and how silly you come across with such sweeping brushstroke generalizations. YW.

I was talking about the poster Leaf Nation.

I bet you feel silly now.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Dont forget the shorthanded chance off the post when he mind-numbingly decided to skate directly at one of the guys leading to a total breakaway.

Rielly does this a lot. He just misreads plays far too often to be considered a Norris caliber D man. Just like this play as you describe above. Skated right to the player with the puck on a 2 on 1 leaving Barkov wide open, and Barkov wins it in OT.