Norris Trophy Power Rankings: Rielly on top with gaudy offensive numbers

[The Winter Soldier]

i'm not talking about picking up his point pace. I'm talking about his game.

And it's not about better defenseman. It's better defenseman THIS YEAR.

What in particular about Hedman's game does he have to pick up if you are not talking about points pace? He leads all TB D man in ice time on the 1st place team in the NHL. He is a towering presence on the TB blueline every time I see him play. The same Hedman that won the Norris last season. So what exactly does he have to pick up?

 

[KingBran]

They REALLY need another trophy for best offensive d-man. Reverse Selke.

 

[LeafFever]

They REALLY need another trophy for best offensive d-man. Reverse Selke.

Why? The position is becoming more and more offensive oriented. I think it's less a need than ever.
Do we want one targeted at the "Stay At Home DMan" when that's going away?

 

[guzzy]

They REALLY need another trophy for best offensive d-man. Reverse Selke.

I have been saying this for years. That way the Norris can go to the best defenceman, not the best winger playing in the back. Gio vs Reilly isn't really a debate. Gio is a far better dman and more impactful to the lineup. 1.1 ppg vs .95 ppg doesn't swing the vote enough IMO, not even close. But lets be real about this. East coast bias would probably swing it to Reilly if the vote were held now. The top 5 scorers on defence this year don't compete with Gio playing actual defence. I think Reilly and Burns are great players and exciting to watch but they aren't as good on defence.

 

[KingBran]

Why? The position is becoming more and more offensive oriented. I think it's less a need than ever.
Do we want one targeted at the "Stay At Home DMan" when that's going away?

"Less than ever"? You got that wrong.

 

[LeafFever]

"Less than ever"? You got that wrong.

No, puck-moving and offensive abilities have never been more important. The Adam Foote type role is going away.

 

[Rschmitz]

Does GA really matter when the game is out of reach and the Bolts are the best team in the league by a mile? A little too obvious that the emphasis being placed there is to fit a narrative.

Hedman has definitely not been the best defenseman this year. An injury and reduced ice time has pretty much taken him out of the running for Norris. Not a great season by his standards. Still a better defender than virtually everyone in the running for the award though.

 

[KingBran]

No, puck-moving and offensive abilities have never been more important. The Adam Foote type role is going away.

You are trying to say defensive d-men have no place in todays NHL? Thats funny!

Also, the trophy is supposed to be for best d-man. Not best offensive d-man.

There is a trophy for best defensive forward so it makes sense to have one the other way.

 

[Sniperberg]

No, puck-moving and offensive abilities have never been more important. The Adam Foote type role is going away.

Didnt you Leafdudes make like a billion trade-proposals for one Josh Manson during the off-season? Funny how fast things change.

 

[LeafFever]

You are trying to say defensive d-men have no place in todays NHL? Thats funny!

Also, the trophy is supposed to be for best d-man. Not best offensive d-man.

There is a trophy for best defensive forward so it makes sense to have one the other way.

Less than ever is what I am saying.

You are going to create an award for offensive-only guys on D? That's ridiculous. That's far too much of what the position is now.

And Rielly has no place being considered an offensive-only guy. If he was sheltered, sure. But he's the opposite of that.

 

[LeafFever]

Didnt you Leafdudes make like a billion trade-proposals for one Josh Manson during the off-season? Funny how fast things change.

No, I did not. So sorry, what has changed?
In every Pesce trade proposal I did not see Leaf fans liking it.

 

[Rschmitz]

As long as there is a PK, defensive defensemen will have a place.

 

[LeafFever]

As long as there is a PK, defensive defensemen will have a place.

Never suggested they don't.

 

[Alwalys]

I love Burns but even Sharks fans admit he's basically a forward.

no Sharks fan says this. burns at forward is an entirely different, and wonderful, thing.

he is a prolific stretch passer, point shooter, and blue line operator.

 

[KingBran]

Less than ever is what I am saying.

You are going to create an award for offensive-only guys on D? That's ridiculous. That's far too much of what the position is now.

And Rielly has no place being considered an offensive-only guy. If he was sheltered, sure. But he's the opposite of that.

Thats probably exactly what people said when the Selke came about too.

The defenseman that scores the most points is not always (actually very rarely is) the best defenseman. It's that simple.

 

[Rschmitz]

Never suggested they don't.

What were you suggesting?

 

[joe dirte]

What in particular about Hedman's game does he have to pick up if you are not talking about points pace? He leads all TB D man in ice time on the 1st place team in the NHL. He is a towering presence on the TB blueline every time I see him play. The same Hedman that won the Norris last season. So what exactly does he have to pick up?

Just about everything really.

Hedman is a great dman, no doubt. But this year, he's being deployed as mostly an offensive dman. He gets the most offensive zone starts on the team, while McDonagh and Stralman take all the defensive zone starts. McDonagh and Stralman are Tampa's go to against other teams top lines as well. So, while Hedman has managed a pretty solid 53.6 CF%, and has some decent, but not spectacular advanced stats, he's doing that based on some pretty sheltered ice time. Yep, he's actually sheltered this year, and all the stats back that up.

Babcock meanwhile spreads his ice time out, and Rielly is middle of the pack on the Leafs, and is frequently the go to guy for Babcock against the top opposition (although Gardiner has been getting a lot of that this year).

Defensively, Hedman is faring a little bit better this year, but not huge margins. Rielly is holding his own, Hedman is a little above average, but given the easy assignments.

Offensively, again, because the ice is spread out in Toronto, Rielly doesn't get the PP time Hedman does either. Hedman averages 3:21 per game right now, Rielly just 2:38. And yet, is still smashing him in production. And you can't really use the "it's his linemates" excuse when comparing these two either.

So, when you're looking at two dmen, one getting favourable ice time, and making out marginally better, defensively, but getting completely destroyed offensively, by a wide margin, yeah, it's pretty easy to say Rielly is having a better season than Hedman.

But yeah, Hedman is money in the bank. He's awesome. He's just not having the season Rielly is.

 

[SpinningEdge]

I have no problem seeing a team that may win the nhl points race by 10-20 get a ton of players for the awards.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just about everything really.

Hedman is a great dman, no doubt. But this year, he's being deployed as mostly an offensive dman. He gets the most offensive zone starts on the team, while McDonagh and Stralman take all the defensive zone starts. McDonagh and Stralman are Tampa's go to against other teams top lines as well. So, while Hedman has managed a pretty solid 53.6 CF%, and has some decent, but not spectacular advanced stats, he's doing that based on some pretty sheltered ice time. Yep, he's actually sheltered this year, and all the stats back that up.

Babcock meanwhile spreads his ice time out, and Rielly is middle of the pack on the Leafs, and is frequently the go to guy for Babcock against the top opposition (although Gardiner has been getting a lot of that this year).

Defensively, Hedman is faring a little bit better this year, but not huge margins. Rielly is holding his own, Hedman is a little above average, but given the easy assignments.

Offensively, again, because the ice is spread out in Toronto, Rielly doesn't get the PP time Hedman does either. Hedman averages 3:21 per game right now, Rielly just 2:38. And yet, is still smashing him in production. And you can't really use the "it's his linemates" excuse when comparing these two either.

So, when you're looking at two dmen, one getting favourable ice time, and making out marginally better, defensively, but getting completely destroyed offensively, by a wide margin, yeah, it's pretty easy to say Rielly is having a better season than Hedman.

But yeah, Hedman is money in the bank. He's awesome. He's just not having the season Rielly is.

Rielly is having a better season for his standards.

Hedman is not having a season to his standards. But would be if he was playing to Rielly's lower standards.

Now does this mean one is deserving of a Norris if they exceed their standards or one does not if they do not play to their standards.

Well I would still take Hedman as a better all around D man in this scenario. There are a lot of games to be played, and the cream will rise to the top even more by game 82.

 

[joe dirte]

Rielly is having a better season for his standards.

Hedman is not having a season to his standards. But would be if he was playing to Rielly's lower standards.

Now does this mean one is deserving of a Norris if they exceed their standards or one does not if they do not play to their standards.

Well I would still take Hedman as a better all around D man in this scenario. There are a lot of games to be played, and the cream will rise to the top even more by game 82.

now you're trying to change the argument. Because it's not going your way.

As I already said, if Hedman can raise his play to better than that of Rielly, for the rest of the year, then sure, maybe the Norris should go to him. but to this point, Rielly has been the better defenseman. That's why he's the frontrunner, at this point.

If Rielly continues his play, it will be the best performance we've seen from a dman on a Canadian team since Pronger in Edmonton. Man he was just ridiculous that year.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

now you're trying to change the argument. Because it's not going your way.

As I already said, if Hedman can raise his play to better than that of Rielly, for the rest of the year, then sure, maybe the Norris should go to him. but to this point, Rielly has been the better defenseman. That's why he's the frontrunner, at this point.

If Rielly continues his play, it will be the best performance we've seen from a dman on a Canadian team since Pronger in Edmonton. Man he was just ridiculous that year.

I doubt Rielly can play better than he has thus far. Don't assume that a 35 game season is a 82 game sample.

Hedman is likely to play better in the 2nd half. And again, even when he is not playing to his own high standards. His play would be better than most top 5 men in the NHL.

He's a true 2 way defender. This is what the Norris is named for. You may not like it, but if Hedman's potential was to be a Rielly. He would already be there and then some. This is why he is a former Norris winner, and with any pick up in play in the 2nd half as the Lightening know this is when the fish are bigger to fry will be the 2 time Norris winner when the dust settles.

 

[razkaz]

Well TB won 2 playoff rds last year, they also have 7 recent playoff rd wins, including a Stanley cup appearance. You don't think TB and Hedman have bigger fish to fry than winning a Norris than Rielly who has yet to exp even 1 playoff rd win yet? Are these not a facts?

Actually It's your reading that needs attention. Hedman's got his Norris last year. He has bigger fish to fry as do the TB Lightening. They want to build on being 1 game away from the Stanley cup finals, they are not concerned about winning 1 playoff rd or a Norris trophy. Hedman and TB have already got this. Now do you get this?

I'm confused here. You keep repeating the same thing, Hedman is reserving himself for the playoffs in order to win the Stanley Cup and this is the reason why he is not in contention for the Norris this year. If you believe this, then why did he put himself in contention for the Norris last year instead of reserving himself for the playoffs to be able to win the Cup? Does this mean Hedman is selfish and wanted to get his individual trophy first before helping the team? Or does this sounds just as crazy as your "theory" of reserving himself and not trying to win.

All players try to help their team win the cup, some do it at another level compared to others and in the process are given individual trophies as recognition of their performance. This notion that Hedman is reserving himself and isn't trying to win the Norris in order to win the Cup as if they are separate things is hilarious though.

 

[joe dirte]

I doubt Rielly can play better than he has thus far. Don't assume that a 35 game season is a 82 game sample.

well it's closer to 40 at this point.

I doubt Rielly can play better than he has thus far too. He doesn't have to. We have to go back years to see a dman this dominant. So no, I don't expect him to get even better. Even Spinal Tap only took it to 11, how do you expect Rielly to get to 12?

Hedman is likely to play better in the 2nd half. And again, even when he is not playing to his own high standards. His play would be better than most top 5 men in the NHL.

Yes I agree. Hedman is the best dman in the league overall in my opinion. Just hasn't been this year. But at this point, he not only has to play better than Rielly, but better by the same margin Rielly has outperformed him to the half way point. he's in a catchup game on Rielly, as well as other dmen, right now.

Of course, I doubt Rielly or Hedman are really concerned about where they stand in the Norris race. As you say, Rielly and Hedman have bigger fish to fry. they're the best dmen on the best two teams in the league.

He's a true 2 way defender. This is what the Norris is named for. You may not like it, but if Hedman's potential was to be a Rielly. He would already be there and then some. This is why he is a former Norris winner, and with any pick up in play in the 2nd half as the Lightening know this is when the fish are bigger to fry will be the 2 time Norris winner when the dust settles.

You may not like it, but this conversation is not about potential, it's about their play this year. their ACTUAL play. Of which, Rielly takes the prize. so far.

 

[BlueBaron]

Didnt you Leafdudes make like a billion trade-proposals for one Josh Manson during the off-season? Funny how fast things change.

Didn't some fan of your team say something and you contradicted him because you don't have a hive mind?

We're like that to.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm confused here. You keep repeating the same thing, Hedman is reserving himself for the playoffs in order to win the Stanley Cup and this is the reason why he is not in contention for the Norris this year. If you believe this, then why did he put himself in contention for the Norris last year instead of reserving himself for the playoffs to be able to win the Cup? Does this mean Hedman is selfish and wanted to get his individual trophy first before helping the team? Or does this sounds just as crazy as your "theory" of reserving himself and not trying to win.

All players try to help their team win the cup, some do it at another level compared to others and in the process are given individual trophies as recognition of their performance. This notion that Hedman is reserving himself and isn't trying to win the Norris in order to win the Cup as if they are separate things is hilarious though.

I'm saying Hedman is a better defenceman. He already has the hardware to prove it. He has room to pick it up in the 2nd half since TB may have learned last year. Cups, playoff rds are not won in Oct or Nov. Rielly's offence will normalize in the 2nd half. He is already playing as well as he can. And even then. I would take Hedman because he is simply better defensively. Not hard to understand where this will trend if Hedman can stay healthy.