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Norris Trophy Power Rankings: Rielly on top with gaudy offensive numbers

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T REX said:
Great question. I am pretty sure Hedman's ice time has been reduced. We're in this for the long game. The Cup. This version of the Lightning seems different. Hedman is a way better defenseman than Rielly overall and over a longer sustained period. Sorry to burst your bubble. LOL. But, you keep fighting the fight. We'll let you have the Norris...we have bigger fish to fry.
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Great post. Hedman is on another level to Rielly. He already is a proven 72 points in 79 games 2 way D man. If he wanted to, he could rack up points for individual awards more, but as you correctly stated, he and TB are in it for the long game. Best Defenceman in the NHL right now. I don't think there is one coach or GM that would take Rielly over Hedman. Anyone that says so, is not being up front IMO.

The Norris definition is for the top Defenceman that demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position.

To me that is Hedman.
 
ToDavid said:
I love Burns but even Sharks fans admit he's basically a forward. Rielly is at least as good defensively as Karlsson and Letang and neither of them have to carry around the corpse of Ron Hainsey. The only guy on that list that is clearly a tier above is Gio.

Also, that's not irony.
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Burns is a defenseman, and I'm a sharks fan

You bump your head in the new year? :loony:
 
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TT1 said:
I still don't understand what you mean tho. How does Petry help Weber when they don't play together, Weber still matches up every shift vs top lines and he still plays #1 D minutes? Weber helps Petry out by giving him easier minutes/match-ups, Petry doesn't do anything for Weber.
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The discussion was essentially who would have the worst defensive unit if Morgan, weber, doughty etc were taken out. Montreal would have petry and Toronto would have Gardiner as the next best defensemen. If the discussion was who gets the most help by their partner, the poster I was replying to would get screwed because rielly gets zero help from Ron hainsey. So that was not what we were discussing.
 
Katani Kalan said:
To be fair 2 years ago he was trending a lot better. He's fallen off a lot and Rielly has definitely taken a step forward.
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2 years ago I mentioned the only difference was Rielly was lacking PP time to bump up his numbers like Risto. Now the PP is used against Rielly.
 
T REX said:
Great question. I am pretty sure Hedman's ice time has been reduced. We're in this for the long game. The Cup. This version of the Lightning seems different. Hedman is a way better defenseman than Rielly overall and over a longer sustained period. Sorry to burst your bubble. LOL. But, you keep fighting the fight. We'll let you have the Norris...we have bigger fish to fry.
Click to expand...

Maybe address the actual point instead of acting high and mighty about getting knocked out in the ECF.

If Rielly's only scoring so much because he's on a stacked offensive team, why is Hedman only scoring a fraction of the points when he plays more time and more PP time on a team that has scored more goals than the Leafs?

Could it be that Rielly is an integral reason the offense is clicking?
 
Martin Skoula said:
Maybe address the actual point instead of acting high and mighty about getting knocked out in the ECF.

If Rielly's only scoring so much because he's on a stacked offensive team, why is Hedman only scoring a fraction of the points when he plays more time and more PP time on a team that has scored more goals than the Leafs?

Could it be that Rielly is an integral reason the offense is clicking?
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Ding ding ding. :)
 
LeafFever said:
2 years ago I mentioned the only difference was Rielly was lacking PP time to bump up his numbers like Risto. Now the PP is used against Rielly.
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Not sure how it's used against him I'm just referring to both their defensive game. Reilly is better for sure now and offensively well hard to argue with the numbers. Rasmus Ristolainen for me just is a liability out there defensively.
 
Katani Kalan said:
Not sure how it's used against him I'm just referring to both their defensive game. Reilly is better for sure now and offensively well hard to argue with the numbers. Rasmus Ristolainen for me just is a liability out there defensively.
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Read this thread.
 
NyQuil said:
I wish irony would manifest itself physically in the form of chocolate pudding because I would chow down for days.

Leaf Nation has certainly done an about face on what constitutes a Norris worthy defenceman.
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Or you know we accepted that the Norris is given out for offensive reasons the past 8 years or so and now that we have someone with those offensive numbers we think he should win it.

Norris should never be about best offense, but it is, so what are we going to do?
 
Martin Skoula said:
Maybe address the actual point instead of acting high and mighty about getting knocked out in the ECF.

If Rielly's only scoring so much because he's on a stacked offensive team, why is Hedman only scoring a fraction of the points when he plays more time and more PP time on a team that has scored more goals than the Leafs?

Could it be that Rielly is an integral reason the offense is clicking?
Click to expand...

Hedman has half as many giveaways which leads me to believe he/Tampa has more faith in its defense/system rather than offense, offense, and more offense.
 
T REX said:
Great question. I am pretty sure Hedman's ice time has been reduced. We're in this for the long game. The Cup. This version of the Lightning seems different. Hedman is a way better defenseman than Rielly overall and over a longer sustained period. Sorry to burst your bubble. LOL. But, you keep fighting the fight. We'll let you have the Norris...we have bigger fish to fry.
Click to expand...

Just so we are 100% clear. You're saying cutting ice time reduces points, and it's done with the idea that you want your players a little more fresh for the playoffs? Is that what your trying to say?
 
PatriceBergeronFan said:
Hedman has half as many giveaways which leads me to believe he/Tampa has more faith in its defense/system rather than offense, offense, and more offense.
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What is your feeling on Tampa being 14th currently in GA? Leafs are 5th.

Are the Lightning the Golden State Warriors yet?
 
PatriceBergeronFan said:
Hedman has half as many giveaways which leads me to believe he/Tampa has more faith in its defense/system rather than offense, offense, and more offense.
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Tampa allows more goals, similar shots against, similar high danger chances against. Hedman personally has been on the ice for only 6 goals against less at ES (despite facing easier minutes with a vastly better partner) and 27 less goals for.

But yeah let's look at giveaways in isolation as if they're tracked with any consistency lmao, outstanding rebuttal.

You still haven't answered the question, if the system is carrying Rielly to his point totals why is Hedman only 64% as effective offensively on a team that scores more per game? Especially considering it's not even the PP (Hedman has a bigger proportion of PP points), Rielly is blowing him away at ES scoring.
 
PatriceBergeronFan said:
Hedman has half as many giveaways which leads me to believe he/Tampa has more faith in its defense/system rather than offense, offense, and more offense.
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You're aware those things tend to vary heavily from rink (and official scorer) to rink? Were you aware RTSS stats are generally unreliable, and the best way to normalize (as much as possible, anyway) is to simply use road stats?

In reality, the Leafs score keeper has recorded almost 550 giveaways for both teams playing in Toronto combined, where the Tampa scorekeeper has recorded just over 300.

There really is no difference in the rate the two are actually giving the puck away. There is just a difference in the rate they're recorded.

If anything, the stats tend to suggest that Rielly actually gives the puck away LESS..... You have a tendency to blame a lot of things on the referees. But this is one that you can actually attribute to the officiating team. It's ironic you're ignoring them now.

Thanks for coming out.
 
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Hedman faces easier competition than Rielly FYI.
Hedman's team gives up more GA and shots against.

Has a top 5 team in GA ever in the history of the NHL gotten so much crap for being inept defensively? They should be 31st with this talk.
 
joe dirte said:
You're aware those things tend to vary heavily from rink (and official scorer) to rink? Were you aware RTSS stats are generally unreliable, and the best way to normalize (as much as possible, anyway) is to simply use road stats?

In reality, the Leafs score keeper has recorded almost 550 giveaways for both teams playing in Toronto combined, where the Tampa scorekeeper has recorded just over 300.

There really is no difference in the rate the two are actually giving the puck away. There is just a difference in the rate they're recorded.

If anything, the stats tend to suggest that Rielly actually gives the puck away LESS..... You have a tendency to blame a lot of things on the referees. But this is one that you can actually attribute to the officiating team. It's ironic you're ignoring them now.

Thanks for coming out.
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Wouldn't you expect the ratio to remain consistent? I would.

Giveaways/takeaways doesn't mean one is better than the other but it certainly reflects in their play style.

Raise your hand if you think Rielly is actually a top 10 defenseman (or top 5) in the NHL. One fanbase will be there alone I heavily suspect.

Even if he wins the Norris based on production, there is never going to be a time he is the best defenseman in the NHL. Simple as that.
 
PatriceBergeronFan said:
Wouldn't you expect the ratio to remain consistent? I would.

Giveaways/takeaways doesn't mean one is better than the other but it certainly reflects in their play style.
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Would I expect what ratio exactly to remain consistent? You mentioned the number of giveaways, nothing else. The ratio of giveaways at home vs away? I do'nt follow.
 
T REX said:
Great question. I am pretty sure Hedman's ice time has been reduced. We're in this for the long game. The Cup. This version of the Lightning seems different. Hedman is a way better defenseman than Rielly overall and over a longer sustained period. Sorry to burst your bubble. LOL. But, you keep fighting the fight. We'll let you have the Norris...we have bigger fish to fry.
Click to expand...

Hmmm weird that Hedman plays more ES TOI and nearly a minute more on PP TOI. Seems like Toronto has the same bigger fish to fry.

But it’s ok, I get how annoying it must be to be the onpaper champs in preseason 3 years running with nothing to show for it. (Other Tampa fans this is directed to this guy specifically, I mean no disrespect to your organization).

The Winter Soldier said:
Great post. Hedman is on another level to Rielly. He already is a proven 72 points in 79 games 2 way D man. If he wanted to, he could rack up points for individual awards more, but as you correctly stated, he and TB are in it for the long game. Best Defenceman in the NHL right now. I don't think there is one coach or GM that would take Rielly over Hedman. Anyone that says so, is not being up front IMO.

The Norris definition is for the top Defenceman that demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position.

To me that is Hedman.
Click to expand...

While I 100% agree that Herman is the better D, and likely the best in the league, the Norris has historically gone to the best offensive D.
 
The Podium said:
Hmmm weird that Hedman plays more ES TOI and nearly a minute more on PP TOI. Seems like Toronto has the same bigger fish to fry.

But it’s ok, I get how annoying it must be to be the onpaper champs in preseason 3 years running with nothing to show for it. (Other Tampa fans this is directed to this guy specifically, I mean no disrespect to your organization).



While I 100% agree that Herman is the better D, and likely the best in the league, the Norris has historically gone to the best offensive D.
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No disrespect. But TB have won 7 playoff rds in the last 4 years with essentially the same core. Hedman and the Bolts have bigger to fry is correct. Rielly and the Leafs have not won 1 playoff rd yet. One is taking baby steps, the other wants to take the ultimate step to a championship. Big difference. And yes, as you have agreed, Hedman is the better Defenceman 110% which is why he should win the Norris.
 
The Winter Soldier said:
No disrespect. But TB have won 7 playoff rds in the last 4 years with essentially the same core. Hedman and the Bolts have bigger to fry is correct. Rielly and the Leafs have not won 1 playoff rd yet. One is taking baby steps, the other wants to take the ultimate step to a championship. Big difference. And yes, as you have agreed, Hedman is the better Defenceman 110% which is why he should win the Norris.
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No disrespect because I don’t actually mean it but not going to sit idle while other fans target and troll my team.
 
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