Non-Minnesota NHL News XII

[Victorious Secret]

Yep. I'm still shaky about Lundqvist, since he is in a pretty good system. But he is like a bigger, better Backstrom. So positionally sound that he doesn't have to do much of anything else.

I'm not putting you in the same bunch, but my high school coach said goalies was the least important position in sports, even behind extra point kickers. We would barely get shots during practice and we'd have to do every single skating drill and have no time for goalie drills or anything. That dude was a ginormous *******.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Goaltending in the NHL now, it's so easy to find the next Backstrom it's crazy.

Sometimes. Remember the Monster? Remember Ben Bishop? Al Montoya? Steve Mason? Andrew Raycroft?

You get a decent goalie you keep them as long as you can keep them at a reasonable price... if not move the hell on! Don't waste cap space at the position at the cost of talent in front of said goaltender.

Guys like Crawford can win the Cup!

Except Crawford is a good goaltender. He's developed slowly but his NHL total is 152 GP, .913 SV% and 2.40 GAA.

Last year he had a 1.94 GAA and a .926 SV%.

Like many goaltenders, his sophomore season was a bit rocky as they readjust to the NHL and more challenges but he's been pretty stellar. So saying guys like Crawford can win the cup isn't really the entire story.

If a guy like Harding wins a cup, then yes. But Crawford? Yeah, he's been a rock solid goaltender.

 

[TaLoN]

Yep. I'm still shaky about Lundqvist, since he is in a pretty good system. But he is like a bigger, better Backstrom. So positionally sound that he doesn't have to do much of anything else.

I'm not putting you in the same bunch, but my high school coach said goalies was the least important position in sports, even behind extra point kickers. We would barely get shots during practice and we'd have to do every single skating drill and have no time for goalie drills or anything. That dude was a ginormous *******.

See... I don't say that... I just say it's the least VALUABLE position due to the over-saturation of quality goaltenders in the NHL.

Big difference between importance and value.

 

[TaLoN]

Sometimes. Remember the Monster? Remember Ben Bishop? Al Montoya? Steve Mason? Andrew Raycroft?



Except Crawford is a good goaltender. He's developed slowly but his NHL total is 152 GP, .913 SV% and 2.40 GAA.

Last year he had a 1.94 GAA and a .926 SV%.

Like many goaltenders, his sophomore season was a bit rocky as they readjust to the NHL and more challenges but he's been pretty stellar. So saying guys like Crawford can win the cup isn't really the entire story.

If a guy like Harding wins a cup, then yes. But Crawford? Yeah, he's been a rock solid goaltender.

You are completely missing my point. I am saying all you need is a "solid" goaltender. There are a LOT of "solid" goaltenders. You don't need a "great" or "elite" goaltender in the NHL anymore.

 

[Victorious Secret]

Sometimes. Remember the Monster? Remember Ben Bishop? Al Montoya? Steve Mason? Andrew Raycroft?

Oh god Hannu Toivonen. ****. I thought that guy was going to **** on everyone. He was so hyped up on being the next monster.

 

[Victorious Secret]

You are completely missing my point. I am saying all you need is a "solid" goaltender. There are a LOT of "solid" goaltenders. You don't need a "great" or "elite" goaltender in the NHL anymore.

Sadly, I agree. Except for my aforementioned list of butt buddies

 

[thestonedkoala]

You are completely missing my point. I am saying all you need is a "solid" goaltender. There are a LOT of "solid" goaltenders. You don't need a "great" or "elite" goaltender in the NHL anymore.

No, but even solid goaltenders are sometimes hard to find (hence my reluctance to move Hackett).

 

[TaLoN]

No, but even solid goaltenders are sometimes hard to find (hence my reluctance to move Hackett).

Disagree. Solid goaltenders are the reason the goalie market is over-saturated. Only inept teams fail to find solid goaltending.

 

[SPMaximus]

I would love to have Rask on this team at 7 per, but I hate long term contracts for goaltenders, 4-5 years would be nicer

 

[Victorious Secret]

Its tough to find a team that doesn't have at least one good goaltender.

 

[TaLoN]

Its tough to find a team that doesn't have at least one good goaltender.

Exactly...

 

[Victorious Secret]

Exactly...

I always understood that point, but there is a point in which the salary for the elite trumps the savings for a good one

 

[thestonedkoala]

Disagree. Solid goaltenders are the reason the goalie market is over-saturated. Only inept teams fail to find solid goaltending.

The goalie market is over-saturated? Uh. What?

 

[TaLoN]

I always understood that point, but there is a point in which the salary for the elite trumps the savings for a good one

The problem is, it has to be a generational elite... and you can't guess who that will be when it times to pay that deal out. Thus I wouldn't make the gamble that you have that generational elite goaltender.

You bet against that fact and you will win that bet more often than not. Bruins are making that bet, and I think they will regret it.

The goalie market is over-saturated? Uh. What?

All you have to do is look at goalie stats today vs 20yrs ago. The stats are SO TIGHT these days. 20yrs ago? Not so much.

 

[Victorious Secret]

Meow. I'd rather have a consistently great goalie, even if not generational, than an unproven good one.

 

[TaLoN]

Meow. I'd rather have a consistently great goalie, even if not generational, than an unproven good one.

I'd rather have a cheaper consistently "decent" goaltender and save that money to put better skaters out front of said goaltender... as my goaltender will likely keep the game close enough for those skaters to make a bigger difference in the long run.

The gap between goalie tiers is simply too small these days.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Its tough to find a team that doesn't have at least one good goaltender.

Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, New York Islanders, Colorado (see how Semen bounces back), Calgary, Winnipeg, Florida (I have no idea how Jakob is doing), possibly Washington.

 

[thestonedkoala]

All you have to do is look at goalie stats today vs 20yrs ago. The stats are SO TIGHT these days. 20yrs ago? Not so much.

Yes, there is some flux between top 15 goaltenders, but that doesn't mean the market is over-saturated. I mean teams are still trading a boat load to get that one goaltender that'll last them for the next 10+ years.

 

[TaLoN]

Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, New York Islanders, Colorado (see how Semen bounces back), Calgary, Winnipeg, Florida (I have no idea how Jakob is doing), possibly Washington.

Islanders have Nabokov... I'd say he's pretty good.

Colorado has Varlamov - he's pretty good, they just have such an inept defense in front it's crazy.

Winnipeg, Pavalec is a pretty damn good goaltender too, but he still has some growing to do. I think you're selling him short far too early.

Washington - not sure how you can say Holtby wasn't solid...

 

[TaLoN]

Yes, there is some flux between top 15 goaltenders, but that doesn't mean the market is over-saturated. I mean teams are still trading a boat load to get that one goaltender that'll last them for the next 10+ years.

No, very few are trying to find the goalie that'll last 10 yrs, most are trying to find one that will work the next 4-5... the few that have been locked up for longer have rarely worked out. That's the problem.

And it's not just flux in the top 15, it's flux in the top 20 at LEAST. The top 20 goalies who played 10+ games were separated by a grand total of .02 save %, and 0.8 Goals against Avg!

 

[thestonedkoala]

Islanders have Nabokov... I'd say he's pretty good.

Did they sign Nabakov back? He's getting pretty old.

Colorado has Varlamov - he's pretty good, they just have such an inept defense in front it's crazy.

Still remains to be seen. He may turn out to be a good goaltender or he might just be one of those journeyman goaltenders.

Winnipeg, Pavalec is a pretty damn good goaltender too, but he still has some growing to do. I think you're selling him short far too early.

Might be the team but Pavalec's numbers are pretty bad.

Washington - not sure how you can say Holtby wasn't solid...

Because he hasn't played in the NHL to say if he's good or bad. He could become a solid goaltender or he could suck still. He's had what? 21 games in the NHL.

I guess if Holtby is solid, so was Hackett?

No, very few are trying to find the goalie that'll last 10 yrs, most are trying to find one that will work the next 4-5

Or that.

the few that have been locked up for longer have rarely worked out. That's the problem.

I can only think of Luongo and DiPietro (DiPietro though can be chalked up to the ineptness of that organization). Oh and Bryz but that entire team locks up everyone. I can't think of any other team? Backstrom, high price but signed long term worked out for Minnesota. Ryan Miller worked out for Buffalo. Too early to say about Quick. Kipper worked out for Calgary. Ward is working out for Carolina. Lehtonen is doing fine in Dallas. Howard is doing fine in Detroit. Price is doing fine in Montreal. Iffy about Rinne. Brodeur was fine in New Jersey. Lundqvist worked out for New York. Anderson in Ottawa seemed fine. Fleury might be another one but they did win a cup. Niemi did fine in San Jose. Halak did fine in St. Louis. Pavelec, you said is fine in Winnipeg.

I guess Khabby is another one but Edmonton is a train wreck

 

[Victorious Secret]

Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, New York Islanders, Colorado (see how Semen bounces back), Calgary, Winnipeg, Florida (I have no idea how Jakob is doing), possibly Washington.

Islanders have Nabokov... I'd say he's pretty good.

Colorado has Varlamov - he's pretty good, they just have such an inept defense in front it's crazy.

Winnipeg, Pavalec is a pretty damn good goaltender too, but he still has some growing to do. I think you're selling him short far too early.

Washington - not sure how you can say Holtby wasn't solid...

Now, you have Calgary, Florida, Tampa Bay, and Philadelphia.

Phillie- Mason played excellent in his showings there (system sucks, though)

Florida- Markstrom is unproven, Theodore had a bad year, Clemmensen sucked

Calgary- Karri Ramo is supposed to be the next Backstrom (Finnish goalie comes over as an old UFA), but unproven

Tampa Bay- Ben Bishop (Yzerman's planning has goalies doomed to fail)

All in all. One team, only because Markstrom hasn't hit his stride and grown accustomed to the NHL/Florida tanking in front of him

 

[SPMaximus]

Nabokov was terrible in the playoffs, worse than MAF

 

[TaLoN]

I can only think of Luongo and DiPietro (DiPietro though can be chalked up to the ineptness of that organization). Oh and Bryz but that entire team locks up everyone. I can't think of any other team? Backstrom, high price but signed long term worked out for Minnesota. Ryan Miller worked out for Buffalo. Too early to say about Quick. Kipper worked out for Calgary. Ward is working out for Carolina. Lehtonen is doing fine in Dallas. Howard is doing fine in Detroit. Price is doing fine in Montreal. Iffy about Rinne. Brodeur was fine in New Jersey. Lundqvist worked out for New York. Anderson in Ottawa seemed fine. Fleury might be another one but they did win a cup. Niemi did fine in San Jose. Halak did fine in St. Louis. Pavelec, you said is fine in Winnipeg.

I guess Khabby is another one but Edmonton is a train wreck

Disagree on that one big time! Backstrom was mediocre at best through his contract and kept the team overly cap strapped. His contract was an absolute hindrance!

As for other long contracts for goalies that didn't work... Luongo, Dipietro, Price - ask any Montreal fan, they'd dump him in a heartbeat! MAF is a failure, Halak is only a 4yr deal, doesn't count as that's right in the window I said I'd max out around. Long term is 5-8yrs IMO. Niemi is another 4yr deal... Lundqvist is the only solid one. Thus it rarely is worth while. Ryan Miller's deal has turned out too long for Buffalo too, and that was just a fiver.

 

[Victorious Secret]

Carey Price deal isn't that bad...yet. He still gets another year.