OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread XI - Defense? Who Needs Defense?! (Wade Wilson Memorial Edition)

[Sad People]

Rick didn't struggle with it initially either.

Dunno if its rose tinted glasses or what but when you look back Rick wasnt really that great of a GM. Hed hit on his FRPs like GMs are suppose to do and even then he only hit on 4 maybe 5 picks. His day 2 and day 3 picks were rough. Lets not forget that god awful Sam Bradford trade.

The Wild are in the middle of a competitive rebuild themselves. Yes, I've heard competitive rebuild before, but you need a really smart GM to pull that off

And someone who graduated at Princeton isnt smart? Once again hes done everything he said hed do when he got here.

Because the Vikings have holes everywhere, especially on defense.

And its not like that move hindered our ability to sign people. We have a projected 150+ million in cap space in 25 and 300+ million in cap space come 26. Next years a transition year anyways.

Zimmer won with Keenum as QB and took the team to the conference finals.

With one of the better defenses in the league that year. Also dont forget the only reason why we got to that NFC championship game is from a play dubbed a "miracle". We should of lost that game against the Saints

O'Connell WAS supposed to be an elite offensive mind, the next guy to come out of McVay's tree.

I dont ever remember this narrative being pushed at all or anyone calling him the next elite offensive mind, maybe those were your expectations? I wasnt expecting an elite offensive mind i just wanted a HC who was on the offensive side of the ball. Hard to expect that when he never called plays before. Not everyone is going to be a McVay, Shanny, or a Reid.

I mean yeah KAM is going to say he's gotten value on HIS trade chart.

Also hard to get a FRP in return when there isn't a QB on board?

New Orleans traded a first in 2022 and in 2023 to move up two spots in 2022 and didn't select a QB.

You don't move down 20 spots without getting a first back. I'd agree the value is there if Minnesota moved down a few spots, but the entire draft? Ridiculous.

Its not just KAM saying he got value there were people all around saying he got value. I guess Im more inlicned to trust the guy whos job it was to look over and evaluate trade charts in the past.

They traded away 1 first rounder not 2 so thats slightly miss leading. It also takes two to tango. Not every trade is going to be treated as equal. Just because the Saints and Micky did something stupid and traded away 5 picks to select a WR doesnt mean other GMs are going to. I personally would of stayed and selected Jordan Davis but theres nothing we can do about it now.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Dunno if its rose tinted glasses or what but when you look back Rick wasnt really that great of a GM. Hed hit on his FRPs like GMs are suppose to do and even then he only hit on 4 maybe 5 picks. His day 2 and day 3 picks were rough. Lets not forget that god awful Sam Bradford trade.

His last couple of drafts were mediocre to bad, but he still got Patrick Jones II, Kene Nwangu, Camryn Bynum, and then Ezra Cleveland, Kris Boyd, Oli Udoh, Alexander Mattison, Brian O'Neill, Tyler Conklin, Dalvin Cook, Pat Eflein, David Morgan (injuries), Stefon Diggs, Eric Kendricks, Danielle Hunter, Jayron Kearse...His picks look awful because he took a LOT of swings at them. The Sam Bradford trade was bad, but it was a hail mary for a team that had a TON of pieces and lost their starting QB right before the season started. Bradford was a good QB, just couldn't stay on the field. I also think the last year or two has tainted your view of Spielman. He made good picks and really good signings.

And someone who graduated at Princeton isnt smart? Once again hes done everything he said hed do when he got here.

I mean George Parros went to Princeton. Would you want him to be a GM of an NHL team? Dominic Moore went to Harvard, would you want him to be GM of the Wild?

Meanwhile Brett Veach went to the University of Delware, but played college football. Howie Roseman went to the University of Florida, and knew since he was a kid he was going to be a GM in football.

Hiring the smartest person in the room isn't always the best case. Kwesi has background in basketball, but no idea how he ended up in football other than a chance encounter with the 49ers. There is some credence in hiring guys that have played or at least have an extensive knowledge of the game.

And its not like that move hindered our ability to sign people. We have a projected 150+ million in cap space in 25 and 300+ million in cap space come 26. Next years a transition year anyways.

They don't see next year as a transition year. Also a lot of that projected space is going to get eaten up by Jefferson and Darrisaw.

With one of the better defenses in the league that year. Also dont forget the only reason why we got to that NFC championship game is from a play dubbed a "miracle". We should of lost that game against the Saints

But they didn't. And they had Case Keenum chucking the ball. Also I thought Spielman was a bad GM, how did they get one of the better defenses in the league?

I dont ever remember this narrative being pushed at all or anyone calling him the next elite offensive mind, maybe those were your expectations? I wasnt expecting an elite offensive mind i just wanted a HC who was on the offensive side of the ball. Hard to expect that when he never called plays before. Not everyone is going to be a McVay, Shanny, or a Reid.

A lot of people were expecting that as he came from the McVay tree that has had some really good offensive minds come out of that. To me, people were talking about McVay as if he was the equivalent of Zimmer when he was first hired.

Its not just KAM saying he got value there were people all around saying he got value. I guess Im more inlicned to trust the guy whos job it was to look over and evaluate trade charts in the past.

There was a split in consensus, but what made it worse was that it was a division rival he traded with that had multiple first round picks in the upcoming draft.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Both coach and GM will be judged on whatever young QB they decide to commit their resources to. If they draft Penix/Nix/McCarthy at #11 or maybe even in the 2nd round, then that clock starts. If they re-sign Cousins for 2 years, then it doesn't.

They traded away 1 first rounder not 2 so thats slightly miss leading. It also takes two to tango. Not every trade is going to be treated as equal. Just because the Saints and Micky did something stupid and traded away 5 picks to select a WR doesnt mean other GMs are going to. I personally would of stayed and selected Jordan Davis but theres nothing we can do about it now.

No, but it's on the resumé. Trading out of a spot where you could've drafted an awesome safety, to take a different safety that is/was struggling isn't a great look if you don't get a boatload else for the trade.

 

[TaLoN]

But it shows you that you can get a good tight end without giving up a lot. Minnesota gave up a mid-2nd round pick and a top 3rd round pick for Hockenson. Also the Lions parlayed that pick into Hooker Henderson, but the Chiefs picked Rashaad Rice with that pick, who did well. It isn't irrelevant when you consider the draft capital Minnesota gave up for Hockenson and then the money.

You are overrating the situation. The Vikings got one of the top tight ends in the league. The Lions hit on a draft pick not involved in the trade. You CAN get a good tight end for cheaper... but looking at the history of tight ends incoming into the league, TJ Hockenson's of the world are NOT easy to find. Otherwise, you'd see more than just the "top 3" tight ends, then everyone else - coming into this year, which LaPorta making a argument for it now being a "top 4".
It's not light running backs which are MUCH easier to find in other ways.

 

[TaLoN]

Both coach and GM will be judged on whatever young QB they decide to commit their resources to. If they draft Penix/Nix/McCarthy at #11 or maybe even in the 2nd round, then that clock starts. If they re-sign Cousins for 2 years, then it doesn't.

Both could happen.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Both could happen.

Right, but the clock still doesn't start until the young QB hits the field.

 

[TaLoN]

With one of the better defenses in the league that year. Also dont forget the only reason why we got to that NFC championship game is from a play dubbed a "miracle". We should of lost that game against the Saints

To be fair, had it not been misplayed by the defender, Diggs still likely can get out of bounds, and we kick a field goal and win anyway. It's called a miracle because the defender misplayed it, and Diggs had the awareness to realize it, keep on his feet and run freely into the endzone as time expired.

The Vikes led the entire way until 3:01 left when the Saints took their first lead of the game, which the lead then changed 3 more times with under 2mins to go with the Vikes ending on top.
I don't think it's at all clear enough to say "We should have lost that game against the Saints."

 

[Sad People]

I mean George Parros went to Princeton. Would you want him to be a GM of an NHL team? Dominic Moore went to Harvard, would you want him to be GM of the Wild?

Meanwhile Brett Veach went to the University of Delware, but played college football. Howie Roseman went to the University of Florida, and knew since he was a kid he was going to be a GM in football.

Hiring the smartest person in the room isn't always the best case. Kwesi has background in basketball, but no idea how he ended up in football other than a chance encounter with the 49ers. There is some credence in hiring guys that have played or at least have an extensive knowledge of the game.

Without doing much research because i dont want to id assume those guys got scholarships to play there? KAM didnt. He went there to get his degree in economics. So correct me if im wrong there. Marshawn Lynch went to Cal i doubt he gets into that school if he doesnt get a scholarship to play there. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Howie Roseman who never played football before also went to law school and was hired as an intern for Philly before doing his time and working his way up the ladder.

They don't see next year as a transition year. Also a lot of that projected space is going to get eaten up by Jefferson and Darrisaw.

YOU might not view it as a transition year but the Vikings do. Hence why its been called a competitive rebuild multiple times... I feel like youre overlooking that aspect of it.

His last couple of drafts were mediocre to bad, but he still got Patrick Jones II, Kene Nwangu, Camryn Bynum, and then Ezra Cleveland, Kris Boyd, Oli Udoh, Alexander Mattison, Brian O'Neill, Tyler Conklin, Dalvin Cook, Pat Eflein, David Morgan (injuries), Stefon Diggs, Eric Kendricks, Danielle Hunter, Jayron Kearse...His picks look awful because he took a LOT of swings at them. The Sam Bradford trade was bad, but it was a hail mary for a team that had a TON of pieces and lost their starting QB right before the season started. Bradford was a good QB, just couldn't stay on the field. I also think the last year or two has tainted your view of Spielman. He made good picks and really good signings.

Theres a lot of bad players mixed in with some of his better picks mainly from the 2015 draft. No i really dont think it has, He had a lot of misses. You take out the one above average draft he had in 2015 its not so hot.

Also I thought Spielman was a bad GM, how did they get one of the better defenses in the league?

Dont get it twisted now. I never said Rick was a bad GM. I said he wasnt that great of a GM theres a difference there.

A lot of people were expecting that as he came from the McVay tree that has had some really good offensive minds come out of that. To me, people were talking about McVay as if he was the equivalent of Zimmer when he was first hired.

What more do you want from the dude? He went 13-4 last year and made the playoffs with a heavily flawed roster and a terrible DC. This year hardly anything went right and the team was still in the playoff hunt towards the end of year. Theres really only been 1 great mind to come off of McVays tree and thats LaFlower and he was only the OC for 1 year. Zac Taylor was going to get fired before he got Joe Burrow.


At the end of the day the jury is still out on whether KAM is a good GM or not. Im on the lets be patient side and not get our pitch forks out because he had 1 bad draft. Brett Veach selected Clyde Edwards Helair who hardly sees the field now, Howie took Regor over JJ. GMs miss, its apart of the job. And as previously said this regime lives and dies with theit QB selection.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kyle Hamilton, 1st Team All-Pro.

 

[Sad People]

1st time a 7th seed wins.

That Dallas secondary is ***.

 

[Avder]

I do enjoy seeing seeing a Texas team get ripped to shreds. I hate that whole state with a passion at this point.

 

[Sad People]

I do enjoy seeing seeing a Texas team get ripped to shreds. I hate that whole state with a passion at this point.

Especially when its the Cowboys. Nice win for the Packers.

 

[Avder]

Damn, they’ve tied a team record for most points in a postseason game. As someone who normally hates the Packers, I heartily approve.

Stomp 'em flat Packers!

 

[Digitalbooya]

Offensive skill positions healthy for the first time all season. Jordan Love is great. Aaron Jones is the Cowboys owner.

Great game. On to our kryptonite, San Francisco.

 

[Avder]

Especially when its the Cowboys. Nice win for the Packers.

I think the only team I hate more in all of professional sports is the Stars.

 

[Wabit]

Gotta think McCarthy is gone after that blowout loss at home.

 

[Avder]

Love seeing a Texas team get embarrassed on their home turf.

 

[Wild11MN]

I won't say I was wrong about Love (saying he wasn't very good), because I don't think I was. As late as 2-3 months ago, he just wasn't a good QB. Something has seriously clicked lately, and now he looks... pretty good.

 

[57special]

I won't say I was wrong about Love (saying he wasn't very good), because I don't think I was. As late as 2-3 months ago, he just wasn't a good QB. Something has seriously clicked lately, and now he looks... pretty good.

Well, he is a young QB playing with a bunch of young receivers. Maybe it just took a while for them to figure out their routes and timing. I also seem to recall some drops early on in the year.

The margins for error are very fine in the NFL, especially in the passing game. A QB getting just a fraction of a second more time to throw the ball, or a receiver making a sharper cut, or a decoy actually trying, and drawing a defender to him, thus leaving someone just open enough.... it all matters.

Having said all that, i couldn't believe the result of yesterday's game. GB was near flawless, but DAL was awful. I believe that GB will turn back into pumpkins next week.

 

[Wabit]

I won't say I was wrong about Love (saying he wasn't very good), because I don't think I was. As late as 2-3 months ago, he just wasn't a good QB. Something has seriously clicked lately, and now he looks... pretty good.

I think part of it is:
-growing pains that young players go though with Love
-play calling changed
-the o-line started to get on the same page and figure things out and the protection got better
-the young players (and there is a lot of them) started to gain confidence and making plays

 

[Wabit]

Well, he is a young QB playing with a bunch of young receivers. Maybe it just took a while for them to figure out their routes and timing. I also seem to recall some drops early on in the year.

The margins for error are very fine in the NFL, especially in the passing game. A QB getting just a fraction of a second more time to throw the ball, or a receiver making a sharper cut, or a decoy actually trying, and drawing a defender to him, thus leaving someone just open enough.... it all matters.

Having said all that, i couldn't believe the result of yesterday's game. GB was near flawless, but DAL was awful. I believe that GB will turn back into pumpkins next week.

SF has owned GB in the Playoffs lately, and I doubt this year will be any different. The only real hope is that SF accumulated some rust in the bye week (they also sat some players in week 18). This will be the 10th Playoff meeting between the 2 clubs.

 

[Avder]

Go Niners, for this week only. Once the Packers are out, I have zero f***s to give on the NFL until next season.

 

[Sad People]

Go Niners, for this week only. Once the Packers are out, I have zero f***s to give on the NFL until next season.

Outta the NFC i want the Niners to make it to the SB if they somehow lose to the Packers im going all in for the Lions. Easy Franchise to root for.

AFC id like to see Baltimore make it out.

 

[TaLoN]

I won't say I was wrong about Love (saying he wasn't very good), because I don't think I was. As late as 2-3 months ago, he just wasn't a good QB. Something has seriously clicked lately, and now he looks... pretty good.

Rodgers didn't look good right away either, until he did.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Go Niners, for this week only. Once the Packers are out, I have zero f***s to give on the NFL until next season.

Mannnn, screw California! Go Pack Go!