OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread XI - Defense? Who Needs Defense?! (Wade Wilson Memorial Edition)

[Dr Jan Itor]

Did not see the Dobbs meltdown coming. Losing at home to the Bears opens up a lot of possibility for future losses.

If we end up 10th or 12th or something (currently 17th), I'd have no problem re-signing Kirk, seeing which QBs were there at that spot (Penix would be my choice) and if we don't like one, grab an interior OL or defensive player.

Really wish Kyle Hamilton was on this team right now though.

 

[Sad People]

Only problem with re signing Kirk this off season (assuming he wants top money) is that if we do that it probably means Danielle Hunter is gone. Because we cant afford to pay Kirk top dollar, pay Danielle, Darrisaw and make JJ the highest paid receiver in the game all at the same time, maybe KAM can make it work with void years added to the contract.

Kirk doesnt really strike me as the type of guy who would take less money but maybe he would now considering his injury and it being MN. But if i were to guess if a team were to offer more money than us hed take the richer deal.

The reason why a lot of fans want to move off Kirk is because it would reset the QB contract and wed have a cheap option under center at a team friendly deal for 5 years which would help us re sign a bunch of our top end players and bring in some players in FA to help out the defense or the IOL. Its more about the money he would demand than his play on the field.

2025 though it does look nice with around 155 million in cap space as of now, that obviously doesnt factor in JJs deal and maybe a couple others.

 

[MuckOG]

Only problem with re signing Kirk this off season (assuming he wants top money) is that if we do that it probably means Danielle Hunter is gone. Because we cant afford to pay Kirk top dollar, pay Danielle, Darrisaw and make JJ the highest paid receiver in the game all at the same time, maybe KAM can make it work with void years added to the contract.

Kirk doesnt really strike me as the type of guy who would take less money but maybe he would now considering his injury and it being MN. But if i were to guess if a team were to offer more money than us hed take the richer deal.

The reason why a lot of fans want to move off Kirk is because it would reset the QB contract and wed have a cheap option under center at a team friendly deal for 5 years which would help us re sign a bunch of our top end players and bring in some players in FA to help out the defense or the IOL. Its more about the money he would demand than his play on the field.

2025 though it does look nice with around 155 million in cap space as of now, that obviously doesnt factor in JJs deal and maybe a couple others.

If money was the only motivator for Kirk, he's gone. My gut tells me that he would take a discount to stay with the Vikings.

 

[HotDish]

my fear with Kirk is where his body be ready for next season? I feel like when players get to his age injuries like the Achilles can take up to 2 years to fully get to 100%. Not saying he wouldn't play next year but more so will he be at 100% next year?

 

[MuckOG]

my fear with Kirk is where his body be ready for next season? I feel like when players get to his age injuries like the Achilles can take up to 2 years to fully get to 100%. Not saying he wouldn't play next year but more so will he be at 100% next year?

I think that before the Vikings offer him any kind of contract extension, they would want to know how his rehab is progressing. But since Kirk has never been a mobile QB, anyway, I don't think he will need to be at 100% to still be effective throwing the ball.

 

[TaLoN]

Kirk is going to be 36 next year. He's not a long term guy anymore no matter how you slice it.
We need to be moving on from him.

 

[MuckOG]

Kirk is going to be 36 next year. He's not a long term guy anymore no matter how you slice it.
We need to be moving on from him.

Ideally, the Vikings gets one of the QBs in the 1st round and sign Kirk on a short term deal (1-2 years) to bridge the gap.

If Kirk isn't coming back, signing JJ will become even tougher.

 

[TaLoN]

Ideally, the Vikings gets one of the QBs in the 1st round and sign Kirk on a short term deal (1-2 years) to bridge the gap.

If Kirk isn't coming back, signing JJ will become even tougher.

Kirk has never been a guy to go for a discount on any of his deals. Let's see what Hall has, look at cheaper bridge options.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kirk has never been a guy to go for a discount on any of his deals. Let's see what Hall has, look at cheaper bridge options.

He's also never been 36 and coming off of an achilles tear.

 

[MuckOG]

Kirk has never been a guy to go for a discount on any of his deals. Let's see what Hall has, look at cheaper bridge options.

Such as who?

 

[TaLoN]

Such as who?

Again, let's see what Hall has, he might fit the bill himself. Otherwise, you'd have to look at the upcoming free agent list. I haven't yet.

 

[Sad People]

Like i said Kirk doesnt strike me as a dude who would take a cheaper contract just to stay in MN, hes always been about the money. It took the first fully guranteed contract in NFL history to get him here.

The teams in a great position to trade significant draft capital for a QB and not have it gouge our team because we have talent all over offense. The offense is set for years to come. Thats why i was a big fan of us taking JA in the offseason and not a CB, looks like it worked out fairly well so far. We can trade 2 FRPs a 2nd or 2 and a day 3 pick to trade up and get a young QB. The Panthers situation and our situation arent similiar and we wouldnt be watching our rookie QB who we traded an arm and a leg for throw to a dinosaur named Adam Thielen.

Then in 2025 when we have an upwards of 155 million in cap space (obviously not all of that will be availbale because we have extensions to hand out) we can start snagging some top end FA like the Chiefs were able to grab Joe Thuney then in 2026 we have over 300 million of cap space as of now.

 

[TaLoN]

Again, let's see what Hall has, he might fit the bill himself. Otherwise, you'd have to look at the upcoming free agent list. I haven't yet.

After a quick glance, Tyrod Taylor would be an OK 1 yr guy. Wouldn't be expensive, but would jump at the chance to throw to JJ and TJ with JA in the mix for a season.

Still would like to see more of Hall first, because if he can be that guy instead, even better.

 

[TaLoN]

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

After a quick glance, Tyrod Taylor would be an OK 1 yr guy. Wouldn't be expensive, but would jump at the chance to throw to JJ and TJ with JA in the mix for a season.

Still would like to see more of Hall first, because if he can be that guy instead, even better.

Are we trying to push JJ out the door? Because this is how you push JJ out the door.

It's pretty widely known he wants Kirk to be his QB, and part of our offseason issues with getting him nailed down was because of the QB uncertainty.

 

[Sad People]

Yeah im not worried about JJ leaving hes under team control for 3 more years and money talks.

 

[MuckOG]

Are we trying to push JJ out the door? Because this is how you push JJ out the door.

It's pretty widely known he wants Kirk to be his QB, and part of our offseason issues with getting him nailed down was because of the QB uncertainty.

This is what I'm saying. I don't have an issue with seeing what Hall has this season, but unless he comes in and blows everyone away, I don't think JJ will re-sign until he is comfortable with who will be playing QB.

As I've said before, Cousins was never known for his mobility, so how much worse could it possibly be with a bad Achilles? He was tearing it up up until and through the Packer game on 10/29.

If Cousins is willing to sign at a discounted rate (and I think he will because of his age, the weapons he has to work with and not wanting to uproot his family) on a 1-2 year deal, I think that's the best option along with them drafting one of the top QBs in the upcoming draft. Kirk can carry the load until the new guy is ready (assuming they can draft one).

 

[Sad People]

When has a player whos under team control for 3 more years and would have to turn the richest contract in NFL history and their respective position ever left or happened? Answer is it hasnt. JJ isnt turning down that deal.

I also have yet to see anything all year that the reason why a deal didnt get done is because Kirks future is in limbo.

 

[MuckOG]

When has a player whos under team control for 3 more years and would have to turn the richest contract in NFL history and their respective position ever left or happened? Answer is it hasnt. JJ isnt turning down that deal.

I also have yet to see anything all year that the reason why a deal didnt get done is because Kirks future is in limbo.

Tyreek Hill?

Even take JJ out of the equation. I don't understand the animus against Cousins....before his injury, his numbers were up there among the best in the NFL. The issue with him coming into the season was a lack of pass protection....this season, he was getting that. I'm not suggesting that the Vikings open up the check book for him, but I don't think he'll be asking for top dollar. If he is willing to take a discount, I think its a no brainer to keep him around on a 1-2 year deal.

 

[Sad People]

Tyreek Hill?

Even take JJ out of the equation. I don't understand the animus against Cousins....before his injury, his numbers were up there among the best in the NFL. The issue with him coming into the season was a lack of pass protection....this season, he was getting that. I'm not suggesting that the Vikings open up the check book for him, but I don't think he'll be asking for top dollar. If he is willing to take a discount, I think its a no brainer to keep him around on a 1-2 year deal.

Tyreek wanted to be paid though Chiefs werent going to do it. We will pay JJ and make him the highest paid WR in NFL history. Those 2 situations arent comparable.

Again its not about Kirk and his play its about the money he demands and more about who we would lose if we were to pay him and resetting the QB contract.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

When has a player whos under team control for 3 more years and would have to turn the richest contract in NFL history and their respective position ever left or happened? Answer is it hasnt. JJ isnt turning down that deal.

I also have yet to see anything all year that the reason why a deal didnt get done is because Kirks future is in limbo.

What? He's a free agent in 2025, after next season. Also, numerous direct quotes from JJ saying he would love to have Kirk as his QB for years to come, but he cannot control that. We will never have hard proof, but by him not signing an extension, it just gets more and more expensive. Plenty of WRs don't make it past their rookie deal, and we don't know why. Amari Cooper traded to Dallas in his rookie deal before signing a 5x$100M deal. He forced out due to being "misused" but his QB was Derek Carr who sucks. AJ Brown traded in his rookie deal, you don't think he wanted to get out from under Tannehill? Admittedly he said he wanted to stay but come on.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Screw drafting Harrison Jr, Jefferson come play for Green Bay. We’ve got the cap available soon and a QB that is on a major upwards trajectory.

 

[Sad People]

What? He's a free agent in 2025, after next season. Also, numerous direct quotes from JJ saying he would love to have Kirk as his QB for years to come, but he cannot control that. We will never have hard proof, but by him not signing an extension, it just gets more and more expensive. Plenty of WRs don't make it past their rookie deal, and we don't know why. Amari Cooper traded to Dallas in his rookie deal before signing a 5x$100M deal. He forced out due to being "misused" but his QB was Derek Carr who sucks. AJ Brown traded in his rookie deal, you don't think he wanted to get out from under Tannehill? Admittedly he said he wanted to stay but come on.

Youre forgetting about the 2 years of franchise tags. So his 5th year option plus we have the option to franchise tag him for 2 consecutive years.

Again AJ Brown and Amari Cooper wanted to be paid and the franchises didnt want to commit to them long term, or the franchise didnt wanna pay them what they offered. We do want to commit to JJ long term and are willing to pay him.

 

[Sad People]

Im not against re signing Kirk it just depends upon the cost. Like i said if we re sign Kirk this off season to an expensive deal that probably means Danielle Hunter is gone too. Im fine with starting the rookie right away or letting him sit for a year.

 

[TaLoN]

Are we trying to push JJ out the door? Because this is how you push JJ out the door.

It's pretty widely known he wants Kirk to be his QB, and part of our offseason issues with getting him nailed down was because of the QB uncertainty.

1yr of Tyrod with a clear path with a new young QB? Why would JJ be running when he's going to get paid and sees the long term QB issue being addressed?

Tyreek Hill?

Even take JJ out of the equation. I don't understand the animus against Cousins....before his injury, his numbers were up there among the best in the NFL. The issue with him coming into the season was a lack of pass protection....this season, he was getting that. I'm not suggesting that the Vikings open up the check book for him, but I don't think he'll be asking for top dollar. If he is willing to take a discount, I think its a no brainer to keep him around on a 1-2 year deal.

Kirk is getting old. He's going to be 36, and coming off a tough injury for young players to come back from, let alone older ones.

No matter what you think of Kirk, he's not a long term answer anymore at his age, and we need to be getting a long term answer in the works. Kirk has a history of being paid more than he's worth.