OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread X - The Search is on! (Scramblin' Fran Edition)

[57special]

Worst 13-5 team I’ve ever seen. Also the only 13-5 team I’ve ever seen.

What’s the world coming to when Newcastle is the best of all the teams that I root for?

 

[Dakota Sioux]

Worst 13-5 team I’ve ever seen. Also the only 13-5 team I’ve ever seen.

What’s the world coming to when Newcastle is the best of all the teams that I root for?

That is good beer

 

[Wabit]

It still amazes me on all the stat combos they come up with.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

The Giants were 3-6-1 in their last 10 games, with wins over the Texans, Colts, and Commanders. They are not a good football team, but Ed Donnatell made Daniel Jones look prime Tom Brady for the 2nd time in less than a month. This team was so goddamn lucky to be where they were, a historically bad pass defense, record setting comebacks, and 11-0 in one score games, which is absurd. The 3-4 adjustments and alleged improvement never occurred throughout 18 games this season, and our pass rush was non-existent, even though we had solid pieces on the edge and in the middle.

Kirk was not the reason we lost to the Giants, and those blaming the last play of the game solely on him are intentionally being obtuse. We gave up 432 yards to a team that never broke 400 all season, 301 of those yards against the 26th ranked passing offense who averages less than 200 yards/game. But KOC's play calling was off at times, and that last play of the game was a truly awful call, just as bad as the throw back bullshit on 3rd and 1 in the first quarter. Don't get me started on back to back screens on our 2nd to last drive. The last play, Kirk made a terrible decision, and he should have given KJ a shot since JJ was tripled and Thielen had literally zero separation BUT the play call was shit. You have no 8-10 yard option there, all three receivers were 15+ yards downfield and Dalvin was in the flat. Hockenson's route never should have been short. Again, bad Kirk decision, have to throw it to the sticks and KJ was the option. He had Dexter Lawrence (terror) and Ximines barreling in and panicked like he tends to.

We would have lost to San Fran by 78 anyways.

Going forward. You extend Jefferson now, highest paid WR and lock it down for years. You have plenty of options for restructuring, and cutting to save cap and go forward with this model. Something like $114M over 4. Cutting Jordan Hicks (no brainer), CJ Ham (no brainer) and Dalvin (or trade) would open just shy of $16M in cap. Dalvin took a huge step back this year, and he's making too much to justify his role. Restructure O'Neill, Harrison Smith, and if they want to keep Thielen, him too. Thielen's cap skyrockets in 2023 and 2024, so I wouldn't be surprised if the cut him or moved him.

Kirk is here for at least another year, and if they find a project QB it makes sense to maintain him there and possibly resign him for 1 more, and if you can get him at this number, it would be a f***ing steal with some of these insane deals kicking in. This draft class is LOADED with corners, and QBs are good but not anything in the bottom 8 picks is worth a QB look IMO. Only 4 picks doesn't bode well for a team weak at ILB and Corner though. Not in terrible shape, but the Lions are improving and Chicago is loaded with picks. Need to retooling and to replace some defensive pieces that are aging out.

 

[57special]

The Giants were 3-6-1 in their last 10 games, with wins over the Texans, Colts, and Commanders. They are not a good football team, but Ed Donnatell made Daniel Jones look prime Tom Brady for the 2nd time in less than a month. This team was so goddamn lucky to be where they were, a historically bad pass defense, record setting comebacks, and 11-0 in one score games, which is absurd. The 3-4 adjustments and alleged improvement never occurred throughout 18 games this season, and our pass rush was non-existent, even though we had solid pieces on the edge and in the middle.

Kirk was not the reason we lost to the Giants, and those blaming the last play of the game solely on him are intentionally being obtuse. We gave up 432 yards to a team that never broke 400 all season, 301 of those yards against the 26th ranked passing offense who averages less than 200 yards/game. But KOC's play calling was off at times, and that last play of the game was a truly awful call, just as bad as the throw back bullshit on 3rd and 1 in the first quarter. Don't get me started on back to back screens on our 2nd to last drive. The last play, Kirk made a terrible decision, and he should have given KJ a shot since JJ was tripled and Thielen had literally zero separation BUT the play call was shit. You have no 8-10 yard option there, all three receivers were 15+ yards downfield and Dalvin was in the flat. Hockenson's route never should have been short. Again, bad Kirk decision, have to throw it to the sticks and KJ was the option. He had Dexter Lawrence (terror) and Ximines barreling in and panicked like he tends to.

We would have lost to San Fran by 78 anyways.

Going forward. You extend Jefferson now, highest paid WR and lock it down for years. You have plenty of options for restructuring, and cutting to save cap and go forward with this model. Something like $114M over 4. Cutting Jordan Hicks (no brainer), CJ Ham (no brainer) and Dalvin (or trade) would open just shy of $16M in cap. Dalvin took a huge step back this year, and he's making too much to justify his role. Restructure O'Neill, Harrison Smith, and if they want to keep Thielen, him too. Thielen's cap skyrockets in 2023 and 2024, so I wouldn't be surprised if the cut him or moved him.

Kirk is here for at least another year, and if they find a project QB it makes sense to maintain him there and possibly resign him for 1 more, and if you can get him at this number, it would be a f***ing steal with some of these insane deals kicking in. This draft class is LOADED with corners, and QBs are good but not anything in the bottom 8 picks is worth a QB look IMO. Only 4 picks doesn't bode well for a team weak at ILB and Corner though. Not in terrible shape, but the Lions are improving and Chicago is loaded with picks. Need to retooling and to replace some defensive pieces that are aging out.

My son was raging about how the Vikes didn’t seem to have anyone spying on Jones, when he was killing them with scrambles. The pass defense, especially, was awful all year. Their strategy appeared to be to tire out the QB’s arm by throwing completions all game.

Cousins…eh… he was what he’s always been. Agree on Cook. He’s good, but not deserving of his cap hit. Looks like Thielen has hit a wall, and can’t get open anymore. He was so good for so long that it’s a bit of a surprise that it has come this suddenly.

 

[Minnewildsota]

My son was raging about how the Vikes didn’t seem to have anyone spying on Jones, when he was killing them with scrambles. The pass defense, especially, was awful all year. Their strategy appeared to be to tire out the QB’s arm by throwing completions all game.

Cousins…eh… he was what he’s always been. Agree on Cook. He’s good, but not deserving of his cap hit. Looks like Thielen has hit a wall, and can’t get open anymore. He was so good for so long that it’s a bit of a surprise that it has come this suddenly.

He's lost "some" of his speed. Thus easier to cover.

 

[TaLoN]

but Ed Donnatell made Daniel Jones look prime Tom Brady for the 2nd time in less than a month.

My problem with this statement? It fails to acknowledge that no matter who is calling the defense, that secondary was still the worst secondary in the NFL.

Zimmer was a defensive guru, and a DB whisperer. He had top 5 defenses most of his time here, but at the end even he couldn't get jack shit out of that secondary. Yet everyone somehow expected a coaching change to pretty up that ugly pig and get different results? That's one of the reasons I never ragged on Zim, but begged for slick Rick to get the boot first and foremost...I just knew a new GM would bring in a new coach too.

I don't know if Ed is or isn't a good coordinator, but I do know that the players on that defense was going to sink any coordinator to failure before they could prove themselves one way or another. Until they get better personnel on the field, ultimately it doesn't even matter who is holding the clipboard when the opposition had the ball... the results will be exactly the same.

When it comes to the secondary in particular, I'd toss everyone that played any significant time at this point aside from Shelly. I'd keep Shelly, as he's young and showed he might have some upside. The rest? They're terrible and are what they are at this point. Blow it all up, start from scratch player-wise.

 

[TaLoN]

Aside from the secondary, Kendricks appears to have lost a step at LB and isn't the player he used to be. That's unfortunate, since for the longest time, at least you could count on him to do his part. He looked brutal in the second half of the season.

Za'darius was solid much of the year, but once he injured his knee in Buffalo, he wasn't the same player the rest of the season.

Blow up the secondary is priority number 1, but improving the LBs would be priority number 2, then see if we can find help at edge rusher so we can rely less on a pair of injury prone guys. Move guys in/ out more to keep them fresh. We don't have anyone there that's elite with their play demanding as much time as possible, so see if you can get it done by committee instead until you get that guy.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Aside from the secondary, Kendricks appears to have lost a step at LB and isn't the player he used to be. That's unfortunate, since for the longest time, at least you could count on him to do his part. He looked brutal in the second half of the season.

Za'darius was solid much of the year, but once he injured his knee in Buffalo, he wasn't the same player the rest of the season.

Blow up the secondary is priority number 1, but improving the LBs would be priority number 2, then see if we can find help at edge rusher so we can rely less on a pair of injury prone guys. Move guys in/ out more to keep them fresh. We don't have anyone there that's elite with their play demanding as much time as possible, so see if you can get it done by committee instead until you get that guy.

Almost makes you wonder if he was playing with an injury significant enough to hamper his play. I wouldn't write him off just yet, but definitely something to closely monitor.

 

[thestonedkoala]

When it comes to the secondary in particular, I'd toss everyone that played any significant time at this point aside from Shelly. I'd keep Shelly, as he's young and showed he might have some upside. The rest? They're terrible and are what they are at this point. Blow it all up, start from scratch player-wise.

It didn't help their first round draft pick (Cine) ended up being a bust and their second round draft pick (Booth) also ended up being a bust. They have time to recover, but it really didn't help they got ZERO production from both their first and second round picks.

Furthermore, Minnesota has ran a 4-3 defense for the last decade or so and a lot of hold overs are used to running that scheme. Minnesota is moving to a 3-4 and so there is going to be bumps along the way. The defense needs to have an overhaul.

 

[TaLoN]

It didn't help their first round draft pick (Cine) ended up being a bust and their second round draft pick (Booth) also ended up being a bust.

Again, both were injured for 90% of the season. FAR too early to call on that. That's like calling Chad Greenway a bust because he blew out his ACL before the season started. Came back healthy and had a good career.

Furthermore, Minnesota has ran a 4-3 defense for the last decade or so and a lot of hold overs are used to running that scheme. Minnesota is moving to a 3-4 and so there is going to be bumps along the way. The defense needs to have an overhaul.

Agreed. They had poor personnel to run the 4-3 and are transitioning to the 3-4... that 4-3 personnel that was so bad, is even worse for the 3-4.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Again, both were injured for 90% of the season. FAR too early to call on that. That's like calling Chad Greenway a bust because he blew out his ACL before the season started. Came back healthy and had a good career.

Sorry should have added a bust this season. We'll see, Booth concerns me more than Cine as Booth has had a lengthy history of injuries going back to high school.

 

[Sad People]

Blowing up the secondary is the last thing theyre going to do with so many young CBs, Dantzler, Booth Jr and Evans are all under contract at a cheap price. Theyre probably going to stick with them and see what they have, and deal with the growing pains. They might let PP2 walk and bring in another vet, maybe even draft a CB, from what ive heard its a deep CB class this year but we wont be seeing THAT much of a difference from this year to next. Adding Cine and BA33 to the lineup next year will add some much needed speed to the defense which you could easily see we were lacking. The transition from a 34 defense was a struggle for EK and you can see it on the field, he was having to think instead of react out there and it always made him a step or 2 behind, along with losing some speed with age. its a recipe for disaster. I would expect to see one of Hicks or EK on the team next year with BA33 being the other start.

We need to start drafting some physically dominate defensive lineman.

Almost makes you wonder if he was playing with an injury significant enough to hamper his play. I wouldn't write him off just yet, but definitely something to closely monitor.

Im sure he was dealing with some sort of injury just like every other football player is at that point in the year but i think its more of the transition to a 34 defense, a system where hes never played before.

 

[TaLoN]

Furthermore, Minnesota has ran a 4-3 defense for the last decade or so and a lot of hold overs are used to running that scheme. Minnesota is moving to a 3-4 and so there is going to be bumps along the way. The defense needs to have an overhaul.

Blowing up the secondary is the last thing theyre going to do with so many young CBs, Dantzler, Booth Jr and Evans are all under contract at a cheap price. Theyre probably going to stick with them and see what they have, and deal with the growing pains. They might let PP2 walk and bring in another vet, maybe even draft a CB, from what ive heard its a deep CB class this year but we wont be seeing THAT much of a difference from this year to next. Adding Cine and BA33 to the lineup next year will add some much needed speed to the defense which you could easily see we were lacking. The transition from a 34 defense was a struggle for EK and you can see it on the field, he was having to think instead of react out there and it always made him a step or 2 behind, along with losing some speed with age. its a recipe for disaster. I would expect to see one of Hicks or EK on the team next year with BA33 being the other start.

We need to start drafting some physically dominate defensive lineman.


Im sure he was dealing with some sort of injury just like every other football player is at that point in the year but i think its more of the transition to a 34 defense, a system where hes never played before.

Dantzler needs to go. Shelly was an upgrade.

 

[Sad People]

Dantzler needs to go. Shelly was an upgrade.

I would rather play Shelley (such a good pickup by KAM) as well but Dantz will still be on the team unless he gets traded. You dont cut young, cheap players like Dantzler. (not saying that what you were suggesting either) Dantz has shown some flashes, that Eagles game he played pretty dang well, but he just cant put it all together and be consistent with his play, and stay healthy, Which is a shame because he has some tools to get excited about.

 

[Sad People]

Epect to see heavy regression from this team next year. That Schedule loos brutal. Wouldnt be surprised to see us finish 3rd in the division.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Best way to protect corners is to get to the quarterback.

Pass rush and pass protection. Still the name of the game in the NFL.

 

[TaLoN]

I would rather play Shelley (such a good pickup by KAM) as well but Dantz will still be on the team unless he gets traded. You dont cut young, cheap players like Dantzler. (not saying that what you were suggesting either) Dantz has shown some flashes, that Eagles game he played pretty dang well, but he just cant put it all together and be consistent with his play, and stay healthy, Which is a shame because he has some tools to get excited about.

Many pundits are already predicting Dantzler will be traded

 

[Sad People]

Best way to protect corners is to get to the quarterback.

Pass rush and pass protection. Still the name of the game in the NFL.

100% this. Just take a look at the remaining teams in the playoffs. Eagles, Cowboys and Niners are all extremely deep and physically dominate in the trenches. Bills, Bengals and the Chiefs to an extent but not nearly as deep as the Eagles, Cowboys and Niners.

Many pundits are already predicting Dantzler will be traded

Like who? Havent come across those. Not saying youre wrong either just genuinely curious.

 

[TaLoN]

Like who? Havent come across those. Not saying youre wrong either just genuinely curious.

Here's one I remember reading a couple weeks ago... but have read others since as well...

3 players the Vikings should entertain trade offers for in the 2023 offseason

Following the 2022 season, who are some of the players the Minnesota Vikings should consider trading during the 2023 offseason?

thevikingage.com

First, Dantzler has missed five games this season. An ankle injury landed him on injured reserve for four weeks, and he didn’t log a single snap in Minnesota’s Week 15 win over the Indianapolis Colts as he was still dealing with the effects of an illness he came down with a few days before the contest.

Even when Dantzler has been healthy enough to be on the field though, his performance hasn’t been anything to rave about. He had that memorable game-winning forced fumble in Week 5 against the Chicago Bears, but that’s really one of the only impactful plays the young corner has made all season.

Dantzler’s defensive grade from PFF currently ranks 60th out of 122 qualifying cornerbacks in the NFL, his 79.2 percent allowed completion rate is tied for the ninth-worst among corners in the league according to PFF, and his 125.7 passer rating allowed to opposing quarterbacks is the 15th-worst among all corners in the NFL.

He’s typically been a player that grades well on sites like PFF, even if his performance on the field was a bit questionable. But this season, both his on-field play and his grades from PFF are pretty underwhelming.

With guys like Andrew Booth Jr. and Akayleb Evans returning in 2023 for their second years with the Vikings, Dantzler is certainly not guaranteed a starting role with the team next season. That might not sit well with Dantzler, and it could definitely lead to him possibly seeking a trade out of Minnesota.

He’s young enough (24) that another team will still believe that their defensive system will get the most out of his abilities. So if this ends up being the case and the Vikings receive trade offers for Dantzler during the upcoming offseason, they should be willing to see what they can get in return for the former third-round draft pick.

Here's one I read just yesterday...

10 Vikings who could be salary cap casualties

The Vikings will have some hard decisions to make with the salary cap

vikingswire.usatoday.com

Cap hit: $2,968,750
Cap savings: $2,745,000
Dead Cap: $223,750

Dantzler is an interesting one. He has played well, but he is always hurt. With Andrew Booth Jr. and Akayleb Evans coming back from injured reserve and the emergence of Duke Shelley, do they consider moving on from Dantzler? He might be a valuable trade piece to a team that needs a cornerback.

 

[Sad People]

Here's one I remember reading a couple weeks ago... but have read others since as well...

3 players the Vikings should entertain trade offers for in the 2023 offseason

Following the 2022 season, who are some of the players the Minnesota Vikings should consider trading during the 2023 offseason?

thevikingage.com

Here's one I read just yesterday...

10 Vikings who could be salary cap casualties

The Vikings will have some hard decisions to make with the salary cap

vikingswire.usatoday.com

Sweet thank you for that.

 

[Sad People]

Sounds like Ed Donatell has been fired. Hate to say it but its the right move. Dude played Cover 2 all year and said beat our guys, which happened all year.

 

[TaLoN]

Sounds like Ed Donatell has been fired. Hate to say it but its the right move. Dude played Cover 2 all year and said beat our guys, which happened all year.

I have no problem with that, but I still think the roster would set the next man up for failure as well as is.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I have no problem with that, but I still think the roster would set the next man up for failure as well as is.

I'm not saying our defensive talent is other-worldly but Cover 2 is a zone prevent defense. There's a reason most teams don't deploy it anymore. I'm sure it absolutely did not help what talent we do have on defense.

Ed Donatell being fired is the first step towards improving the defense.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm not saying our defensive talent is other-worldly but Cover 2 is a zone prevent defense. There's a reason most teams don't deploy it anymore. I'm sure it absolutely did not help what talent we do have on defense.

Ed Donatell being fired is the first step towards improving the defense.

Cover 2 is still pretty common, especially for teams that struggle with man coverage which our D has proven time and again, it was incapable of doing.
The Bills play Cover 2 quite a bit... no surprise considering Frazier is their D coordinator, but they have far superior players back there, so they have a lot more success. They can mix in man coverage and do very well.

It's not Cover 2 alone that's the problem, it's the fact that most of our secondary is slow as hell, both in reaction time and in actual speed.