OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread X - The Search is on! (Scramblin' Fran Edition)

[TaLoN]

Rocco doesn't manage. He looks at the numbers alone and let's the numbers decide. Anyone can do that. He should be fired for that alone.

 

[AKL]

Rocco doesn't manage. He looks at the numbers alone and let's the numbers decide. Anyone can do that. He should be fired for that alone.

I was actually going to say something almost identical to this in my post but I forgot to include it.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

I don't know how many of you follow the Twins, and I'll preface this by saying they're not the MLB team I follow most, but I feel like it's time to fire Rocco. He had two years of playoffs, the first season even being a historic performance by the team, but has since had two years of .500 or less baseball. He even got his pitching help at the deadline, and still gave the division away (Twins in third now).

This isn't all because of the Joe Ryan thing last night either. I recognize Ryan had over 100 pitches, and the win is the most important thing. But it is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. You don't pull a guy who's throwing a no-hitter, especially with a six run cushion.

Analytics are a fine tool to use, but Rocco lives and dies by analytics, and right now he's dying by them. Relying on pure analytics to make coaching decisions takes 100% of the human element out of the game. And when you remove the human element, you remove emotion, and you get a bunch of robots.

I'm sure baseball fans are familiar with the phrase "baseball is a game of failure". These guys (specifically pitchers) are going to make mistakes, give up hits, give up runs, etc. And there does come a point where you want to get a fresh arm on the mound to prevent those from piling up. But it's pretty tiring seeing guys go 5.2 innings with 65 pitches and get yanked because they've given up a couple hits or even a run, only to watch the bullpen come in and give up double or triple the amount of runs. Pitchers need the opportunity to pull themselves out of jams. Especially when you have a younger pitcher like Ryan, he needs to learn how to battle through those tough spots so he's more comfortable with it in the future.

But my god, forget about pitchers being pulled in bad or average games, when you pull a guy who's got a no hitter through seven innings, you're sending a message to your entire starting pitching staff that you don't care about them. You won't reward them for great performances. You won't let them chase history? It's entirely disrespectful. Ryan looked completely dejected in the dugout last night after being pulled. How is that good for morale? He may never get a chance to throw a no hitter again, and Rocco robbed him of a great opportunity to make history. Not to mention, no pitcher is going to want to play here longer than they have to with this kind of coaching.

The Twins aren't making the postseason this year. Fire Rocco now, see if you can breathe some life into this club down the stretch, and maybe something to build on for next year.

I watch 90% of their games and have been off the Rocco train for a decent chunk of time now, what you mentioned about the treatment of pitchers being one of the biggest reason. What SP in the league would willingly sign here knowing the treatment of the Twins starting pitchers? Our bullpen has been awful in these last 3 months, yet we're consistently removing an SP for Angel Pagan (or alike) after 70 pitches in a high leverage situation. What you said about learning to work out of jams needs to happen, and it will never under Rocco. He would have rather replace every starter in the 5th after 60 pitches then let him work through it, and instead turn to an extremely thin bullpen.

I was pissed last night when he took Ryan out, and you could see the look on his face, said everything we need to know. Sure, if this was a team destined for the playoffs and he needed to pitch in 5 days against a team we're in a fight with, I get it. But this team has had ZERO to celebrate for months, and watching your teammate attempt to throw a no-hitter would have provided a spark this team needs to at least show some fight down the final few weeks. I don't see them making the playoffs unless they take all 5 from Cleveland next week, and even then there is no guarantee.

He's had the best/most expensive Twins rosters of all time by a ton (yes, I am accounting aggregating that against past seasons) and he has done next to nothing with it. One anomaly of a season where they set a MLB record for HRs with juiced baseballs, and wildly average since. This team should be better, but when he makes several mistakes in every series we play in, we're not winning anything with him.

EDIT* - And don't get me started on LaVelle E. Neal III, the writer for the Strib. The worst pro sports reporter in the world, and by far the worst in MN. His constant non-sense defending of this regime, team, and manager is the exact opposite of his job. He's deliberately dense as f*** with everything he tweets and writes.

 

[AKL]

I was pissed last night when he took Ryan out, and you could see the look on his face, said everything we need to know.

Body language and facial expressions are shooting daggers at Rocco.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

View attachment 584583

View attachment 584585


Body language and facial expressions are shooting daggers at Rocco.

were his pitches starting to fade at all or what?

 

[AKL]

were his pitches starting to fade at all or what?

His location was still good in the 7th. Velo was probably a little down after 100 pitches, but by my count he threw 15 pitches, 12 of them were strikes, and he had 2 K's in the 7th inning.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

were his pitches starting to fade at all or what?

His location was still good in the 7th. Velo was probably a little down after 100 pitches, but by my count he threw 15 pitches, 12 of them were strikes, and he had 2 K's in the 7th inning.

He looked great in the 7th.

What really fudged him was the 32 foul balls which inflated the shit out of his pitch count. That's the most foul balls a Twins starter has had since 2018.

 

[AKL]

He looked great in the 7th.

What really fudged him was the 32 foul balls which inflated the shit out of his pitch count. That's the most foul balls a Twins starter has had since 2018.

9 strikeouts means he had a lot of long at bats too, to go along with those foul balls. I guess the foul balls also mean he had a lot of long at bats.

 

[ShortPeter6]

I don't know how many of you follow the Twins, and I'll preface this by saying they're not the MLB team I follow most, but I feel like it's time to fire Rocco. He had two years of playoffs, the first season even being a historic performance by the team, but has since had two years of .500 or less baseball. He even got his pitching help at the deadline, and still gave the division away (Twins in third now).

This isn't all because of the Joe Ryan thing last night either. I recognize Ryan had over 100 pitches, and the win is the most important thing. But it is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. You don't pull a guy who's throwing a no-hitter, especially with a six run cushion.

Analytics are a fine tool to use, but Rocco lives and dies by analytics, and right now he's dying by them. Relying on pure analytics to make coaching decisions takes 100% of the human element out of the game. And when you remove the human element, you remove emotion, and you get a bunch of robots.

I'm sure baseball fans are familiar with the phrase "baseball is a game of failure". These guys (specifically pitchers) are going to make mistakes, give up hits, give up runs, etc. And there does come a point where you want to get a fresh arm on the mound to prevent those from piling up. But it's pretty tiring seeing guys go 5.2 innings with 65 pitches and get yanked because they've given up a couple hits or even a run, only to watch the bullpen come in and give up double or triple the amount of runs. Pitchers need the opportunity to pull themselves out of jams. Especially when you have a younger pitcher like Ryan, he needs to learn how to battle through those tough spots so he's more comfortable with it in the future.

But my god, forget about pitchers being pulled in bad or average games, when you pull a guy who's got a no hitter through seven innings, you're sending a message to your entire starting pitching staff that you don't care about them. You won't reward them for great performances. You won't let them chase history? It's entirely disrespectful. Ryan looked completely dejected in the dugout last night after being pulled. How is that good for morale? He may never get a chance to throw a no hitter again, and Rocco robbed him of a great opportunity to make history. Not to mention, no pitcher is going to want to play here longer than they have to with this kind of coaching.

The Twins aren't making the postseason this year. Fire Rocco now, see if you can breathe some life into this club down the stretch, and maybe something to build on for next year.

As a guy who pitched into his 20s, the pulling pitchers after 5 is ridiculous and what he did Ryan was damn near criminal. Imagine if Rocco would have tried pulling Jack Morris in game 7. I bet Rocco would’ve got knocked out. He definitely needs to go! If I was a pitcher there is no way I would stay or come to the team if he was the coach. As you said pitchers need to work through adversity to become better over all and Rocco is stripping that from them.

Rocco doesn't manage. He looks at the numbers alone and let's the numbers decide. Anyone can do that. He should be fired for that alone.

100%. Analytics are fine when used with the eye test. Rocco has proven time and time again that he is blind.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Just showed in tonight's broadcast that the Twins have had starters go 5IP or more the least amount of games in the league, by 4.

 

[AKL]

Just showed in tonight's broadcast that the Twins have had starters go 5IP or more the least amount of games in the league, by 4.

Yeah their starting pitching is third lowest in the league in IP/games started at 4.8. Pitches per games started is second lowest at 78.

They have, 76 times, had a starting pitcher throw less than 80 pitches. That is the most in the league. Second place is Tampa at 63 occurrences. They have the lowest amount of outings of pitchers throwing between 80 and 99 pitches, and the fifth lowest amount of outings with pitchers throwing 100+.

Their quality start % is 21% (second worst in the league behind the Nationals), which almost certainly has at least as much to do with Rocco pulling guys before they pitch 6 innings, as it does with the pitchers actually letting up more than 3 runs in 6 innings.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Yeah their starting pitching is third lowest in the league in IP/games started at 4.8. Pitches per games started is second lowest at 78.

They have, 76 times, had a starting pitcher throw less than 80 pitches. That is the most in the league. Second place is Tampa at 63 occurrences. They have the lowest amount of outings of pitchers throwing between 80 and 99 pitches, and the fifth lowest amount of outings with pitchers throwing 100+.

Their quality start % is 21% (second worst in the league behind the Nationals), which almost certainly has at least as much to do with Rocco pulling guys before they pitch 6 innings, as it does with the pitchers actually letting up more than 3 runs in 6 innings.

Yikes.

We'll see what happens right now. Sonny is throwing a gem and has 80 pitches through 6. Interesting to see if he yanks him.

 

[AKL]

Yikes.

We'll see what happens right now. Sonny is throwing a gem and has 80 pitches through 6. Interesting to see if he yanks him.

Back out for the 7th, that's a good sign

 

[GordieGallant]

I don't know how many of you follow the Twins, and I'll preface this by saying they're not the MLB team I follow most, but I feel like it's time to fire Rocco. He had two years of playoffs, the first season even being a historic performance by the team, but has since had two years of .500 or less baseball. He even got his pitching help at the deadline, and still gave the division away (Twins in third now).

This isn't all because of the Joe Ryan thing last night either. I recognize Ryan had over 100 pitches, and the win is the most important thing. But it is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. You don't pull a guy who's throwing a no-hitter, especially with a six run cushion.

Analytics are a fine tool to use, but Rocco lives and dies by analytics, and right now he's dying by them. Relying on pure analytics to make coaching decisions takes 100% of the human element out of the game. And when you remove the human element, you remove emotion, and you get a bunch of robots.

I'm sure baseball fans are familiar with the phrase "baseball is a game of failure". These guys (specifically pitchers) are going to make mistakes, give up hits, give up runs, etc. And there does come a point where you want to get a fresh arm on the mound to prevent those from piling up. But it's pretty tiring seeing guys go 5.2 innings with 65 pitches and get yanked because they've given up a couple hits or even a run, only to watch the bullpen come in and give up double or triple the amount of runs. Pitchers need the opportunity to pull themselves out of jams. Especially when you have a younger pitcher like Ryan, he needs to learn how to battle through those tough spots so he's more comfortable with it in the future.

But my god, forget about pitchers being pulled in bad or average games, when you pull a guy who's got a no hitter through seven innings, you're sending a message to your entire starting pitching staff that you don't care about them. You won't reward them for great performances. You won't let them chase history? It's entirely disrespectful. Ryan looked completely dejected in the dugout last night after being pulled. How is that good for morale? He may never get a chance to throw a no hitter again, and Rocco robbed him of a great opportunity to make history. Not to mention, no pitcher is going to want to play here longer than they have to with this kind of coaching.

The Twins aren't making the postseason this year. Fire Rocco now, see if you can breathe some life into this club down the stretch, and maybe something to build on for next year.

Fire the frickin GM as well. I had to mute the TV because this Levine puke was making me nauseous the other night.
Bailey Ober pulled tonight after 70 pitches tonight and shutting down the Indians.

Ryan may never get another shot of throwing a no hitter. You let him pitch until they get a hit.

I’m sure the Twins pitching staff thinks Rocco is an ass clown as I do.

 

[AKL]

Fire the frickin GM as well. I had to mute the TV because this Levine puke was making me nauseous the other night.
Bailey Ober pulled tonight after 70 pitches tonight and shutting down the Indians.

Ryan may never get another shot of throwing a no hitter. You let him pitch until they get a hit.

I’m sure the Twins pitching staff thinks Rocco is an ass clown as I do.

Yeah great showing by Rocco tonight. Ober goes 5.0 innings with only 1 hit and 1 walk, now it's the bottom of the 7th, he's used 3 relievers so far, and it's a tie game.

Fire this loser mid-game.

 

[GordieGallant]

Yeah great showing by Rocco tonight. Ober goes 5.0 innings with only 1 hit and 1 walk, now it's the bottom of the 7th, he's used 3 relievers so far, and it's a tie game.

Fire this loser mid-game.

Yea so let’s burn up the bullpen with a double header tomorrow.

 

[GordieGallant]

3 freaking breaking balls when it’s obvious the guy is going to bunt. WTF?

 

[f7ben]

Pulling Ober last night was it for me with Rocco. He needs to be fired. I don’t Carr that the team has been decimated by injuries. Ober was cruising and he decided to put the season in the hands of Fullmer , Theilbar and Jax. That’s is probably the worst managing I’ve ever seen.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Packers looking substantially better this week. Nice to have our top receiver back.

 

[Wabit]

Packers looking substantially better this week. Nice to have our top receiver back.

It helps that the Bears are an awful team.

Week 1 is a throw away week for this head coach. I was counting on them losing to whoever they played.

 

[Digitalbooya]

It helps that the Bears are an awful team.

Week 1 is a throw away week for this head coach. I was counting on them losing to whoever they played.

They could fix that if they would just play Rodgers for half a preseason game to iron out game play/speed.

It's fun having two awesome running backs as well.

 

[Wabit]

They could fix that if they would just play Rodgers for half a preseason game to iron out game play/speed.

It's fun having two awesome running backs as well.

I'm meh about playing the starters in the preseason right now. It might end up the difference between a Playoff bye/homefield, but it's not the difference between making the Playoffs or not. The Central is just a weak Division.

I'm a big fan of Dillion.

 

[Wabit]

I was waiting for that deep shot.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I'm meh about playing the starters in the preseason right now. It might end up the difference between a Playoff bye/homefield, but it's not the difference between making the Playoffs or not. The Central is just a weak Division.

I'm a big fan of Dillion.

Quadzilla is an absolute tank. Hoping for a last second score for my fantasy team.

 

[Wabit]

Fields with 70 yards passing. I don't remember seeing that low of a total unless it's a terrible weather game.