OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread X - The Search is on! (Scramblin' Fran Edition)

[63firebird]

I’d give you good odds on that if you’d like.

Minnesota fans have romanticized that Keenum year way too much.

You can say that again
Miracle?
It would be a miracle if they won the Super Bowl. Or at this point even made the playoffs. Diggs was surprised they didn’t knock it down. Wasn’t a miracle, it was a really stupid d back play. I’m sure Keemun had his eyes closed when he threw it.

A) Name a better QB Minnesota can get right now.
B) Explain in detail how Kirk's contract is screwing them over right now and in the future. What free agents is the Vikings skipping over to keep Cousins?
C) Explain in detail your plan on fixing the QB situation when Cousins leaves that gives Minnesota a better opportunity in the future?

Yes. Cousins has the Vikes over the barrel and boy does he know how to milk it.
200 million so far for a guy with a .500 record.
Nice work Kirk. Hopefully Vikes can make the playoffs? Or not completely fall apart in prime time just once? I’m hoping the defence and play calling can get better. Seems the D parts that are decent are getting a little long in the tooth.

 

[BlackBusa24]

A) Either or
B) Okay, who should they be spending money on that they aren't?
C) 2017 had Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, Kizer, Webb, Beathard, Dobbs, Peterman, Kaaya, Kelly...yeah other than Mahomes it was a pretty weak QB draft. Watson may end up being good, but it was a weak draft overall. Also the 2017 said that it's lacking elite talent and really Mahomes turned out to be a elite, however, there was a LOT of questions over his potential and he had to sit behind Smith for a year before he was ready. But the 2017 after Watson was pretty bad.

The alternative is to have a stop gap between 2022 and 2023 when the Vikings could end up with a top 10 pick and a much deeper QB class. CJ Stroud, Bryce Young, Spencer Rattler, just off the top of my head. There are so many good QBs in next year's draft.

A) if we are talking value on current guys in the league I would probably consider minshew or try to get heinecke back. I know both are probably worse than Kirk in regards to talent (both would be superior in my eyes between the ears) but again value... At that point you could have the money and cab space to build a formidable team to make up for the quarterbacks deficiencies.

I'd even probably consider garoppolo or carr at their current cap hits as well.. I have no idea what it would take to resign either when their contract is up but I bet you it's not 35 million... I could be wrong of course. Even at an equal cap it I would take Carr over Kirk in a heartbeat.

B) their offensive line definitely has some huge holes. That's probably where I would go to first. I think corner is also an issue if I remember right. I mean we might have been able to take a swing at the honey badger if we had any available cash?

C) I don't know about you but three elite quarterbacks in one draft class doesn't sound that bad to me. (Pretty sure Allen was in that draft class too) Every draft has misses so I'm less concerned with the percentage of guys that worked out just the top end.

In conclusion Kirk is a mediocre quarterback defined by a good arm and below average mind. In order to overcome that you're going to need to have a better team around them which talon so eloquently said, and if you are paying all that money to Kirk then you are effectively tying one hand behind your back in trying to do so.

It's similar to the argument that we had before about the cap hits of the buyouts that I'm pretty sure you and I discussed at length earlier. Just this time we are and both on opposite sides LOL

 

[TaLoN]

And it seems you keep missing my point that when you don't get value out of what you pay for at quarterback then you start the rest of the team in a hole and are completely shooting a hole in your own argument about the team around said quarterback and a teams playoff performance

As I have said a couple times now you have to get the money from somewhere

Kirk's contract is pretty much screwing over the Vikings just like the buyouts are affecting the wild... Affecting the amount of talent that you can amass on a team.

The only difference is the wilds management isn't responsible as much for their part in it whereas the new regime of the Vikings pretty much just accepted the status quo of the last regime

I wasn't disagreeing with that in the first place, only the "playoff record" part.

 

[BlackBusa24]

I wasn't disagreeing with that in the first place, only the "playoff record" part.

I understand and kind of why I said it was food for thought... There's definitely more to it of course. I really only looked up the record because someone else mentioned it.

 

[thestonedkoala]

A) if we are talking value on current guys in the league I would probably consider minshew or try to get heinecke back. I know both are probably worse than Kirk in regards to talent (both would be superior in my eyes between the ears) but again value... At that point you could have the money and cab space to build a formidable team to make up for the quarterbacks deficiencies.

I'd even probably consider garoppolo or carr at their current cap hits as well.. I have no idea what it would take to resign either when their contract is up but I bet you it's not 35 million... I could be wrong of course. Even at an equal cap it I would take Carr over Kirk in a heartbeat.

B) their offensive line definitely has some huge holes. That's probably where I would go to first. I think corner is also an issue if I remember right. I mean we might have been able to take a swing at the honey badger if we had any available cash?

C) I don't know about you but three elite quarterbacks in one draft class doesn't sound that bad to me. (Pretty sure Allen was in that draft class too) Every draft has misses so I'm less concerned with the percentage of guys that worked out just the top end.

In conclusion Kirk is a mediocre quarterback defined by a good arm and below average mind. In order to overcome that you're going to need to have a better team around them which talon so eloquently said, and if you are paying all that money to Kirk then you are effectively tying one hand behind your back in trying to do so.

A) I didn't think Minshew or Heinecke are FAs? Those teams may not want to give up either player or if they do, it'll cost draft capital. But they are good backup QBs and I believe on reasonable contracts. Having a backup QB is worthwhile.

B) Do we want to overpay and have that player end up not being that great? We saw that with Michael Pierce and many other FAs.

C) Allen was in 2018. And Watson is questionable at the moment, especially given his baggage. He was on the cusp and then - he hasn't played since 2020? It also took two - years before Mahomes broke out. And he was kind of a rare talent.

I also don't see this team being committed to Cousins for more than a year. More than likely, as mentioned above, they have a mediocre year and set themselves up to grab an elite talent in the 2023 draft.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

A) if we are talking value on current guys in the league I would probably consider minshew or try to get heinecke back. I know both are probably worse than Kirk in regards to talent (both would be superior in my eyes between the ears) but again value... At that point you could have the money and cab space to build a formidable team to make up for the quarterbacks deficiencies.

I'd even probably consider garoppolo or carr at their current cap hits as well.. I have no idea what it would take to resign either when their contract is up but I bet you it's not 35 million... I could be wrong of course. Even at an equal cap it I would take Carr over Kirk in a heartbeat.

B) their offensive line definitely has some huge holes. That's probably where I would go to first. I think corner is also an issue if I remember right. I mean we might have been able to take a swing at the honey badger if we had any available cash?

C) I don't know about you but three elite quarterbacks in one draft class doesn't sound that bad to me. (Pretty sure Allen was in that draft class too) Every draft has misses so I'm less concerned with the percentage of guys that worked out just the top end.

In conclusion Kirk is a mediocre quarterback defined by a good arm and below average mind. In order to overcome that you're going to need to have a better team around them which talon so eloquently said, and if you are paying all that money to Kirk then you are effectively tying one hand behind your back in trying to do so.

Do you know the difference between Kirk's 2022 cap hit and Jimmy G's? Also, how were we going to get Carr? (Who will get a massive raise)

It's $4,466,668.


Kirk is 3 tiers higher than this guy and if you think we're $4,466,668 of cap space away from improving this defense/team, then I have no clue what you are seeing. An extension would be around that number, yet you're going to tell me that is a viable move to improve the team around us? How? In what way? This defense was ranked 30th in the league last year. Below average corners, below average line, below average edge, and barely average safety play. But the $4.5M will fix that and the o-line in free agency?

I can't even tell you what you wanted to do with Kirk to begin with, and now I am more confused since you've been preaching value all day and now you're saying you would take Jimmy G over Kirk with the cap saving of < $5M? Guy was a disaster behind one of the best 5 pass-blocking teams in the league, but sure, let's throw behind our line.

 

[BlackBusa24]

A) I didn't think Minshew or Heinecke are FAs? Those teams may not want to give up either player or if they do, it'll cost draft capital. But they are good backup QBs and I believe on reasonable contracts. Having a backup QB is worthwhile.

B) Do we want to overpay and have that player end up not being that great? We saw that with Michael Pierce and many other FAs.

C) Allen was in 2018. And Watson is questionable at the moment, especially given his baggage. He was on the cusp and then - he hasn't played since 2020? It also took two - years before Mahomes broke out. And he was kind of a rare talent.

I also don't see this team being committed to Cousins for more than a year. More than likely, as mentioned above, they have a mediocre year and set themselves up to grab an elite talent in the 2023 draft.

I'm pretty sure heinecke and minshew are back ups at this point and probably could be had for a reasonable price which is why I brought it up. They wouldn't be a guarantee though that's for sure so your point does have merit.

Could have sworn Allen was 2017 but too lazy to look it up so I will let you have that one LOL

If it wasn't for the no trade clause I would think you are right about the 23 draft. It pretty much for forces us to have Kirk on the team for 2 years and playing. I don't think we are going to pay him his salary next year to not start over a rookie... And all those top tier quarterback draft prospects may be gone at the time we pick. You could always have the rookie sit a year behind Kirk... But do you really want Kirk to be teaching a young impressionable quarterback on how to be a leader?

Do you know the difference between Kirk's 2022 cap hit and Jimmy G's? Also, how were we going to get Carr? (Who will get a massive raise)

It's $4,466,668.


Kirk is 3 tiers higher than this guy and if you think we're $4,466,668 of cap space away from improving this defense/team, then I have no clue what you are seeing. An extension would be around that number, yet you're going to tell me that is a viable move to improve the team around us? How? In what way? This defense was ranked 30th in the league last year. Below average corners, below average line, below average edge, and barely average safety play. But the $4.5M will fix that and the o-line in free agency?

I can't even tell you what you wanted to do with Kirk to begin with, and now I am more confused since you've been preaching value all day and now you're saying you would take Jimmy G over Kirk with the cap saving of < $5M? Guy was a disaster behind one of the best 5 pass-blocking teams in the league, but sure, let's throw behind our line.

Then forget about the Jimmy g argument.. I was put on the spot and threw something out there. The rest of my argument holds merit and your argument highlighted it... Do you really think we can fill all those holes when we are spending that much in Kirk when you can't even see a way to do it with 5 million less?

 

[thestonedkoala]

I'm pretty sure heinecke and minshew are back ups at this point and probably could be had for a reasonable price which is why I brought it up. They wouldn't be a guarantee though that's for sure so your point does have merit.

Could have sworn Allen was 2017 but too lazy to look it up so I will let you have that one LOL

If it wasn't for the no trade clause I would think you are right about the 23 draft. It pretty much for forces us to have Kirk on the team for 2 years and playing. I don't think we are going to pay him his salary next year to not start over a rookie... And all those top tier quarterback draft prospects may be gone at the time we pick. You could always have the rookie sit a year behind Kirk... But do you really want Kirk to be teaching a young impressionable quarterback on how to be a leader?

Also given that Washington just traded for an often injured QB, they probably want to keep Heinecke around. As well the Eagles may want to keep Minshew around given the uncertainty around Hurts.

Kirk would be a fine QB mentor. Also there is O'Connell to help. They shouldn't draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB either.

 

[BlackBusa24]

Also given that Washington just traded for an often injured QB, they probably want to keep Heinecke around. As well the Eagles may want to keep Minshew around given the uncertainty around Hurts.

Kirk would be a fine QB mentor. Also there is O'Connell to help. They shouldn't draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB either.

I mean I suppose he could fill the Mannion role for Matt Corral right? That's probably Kirk's dream job... If he was still getting paid 30 million at the same time

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

I mean I suppose he could fill the Mannion role for Matt Corral right? That's probably Kirk's dream job... If he was still getting paid 30 million at the same time

Would be all of our dream jobs

 

[Wabit]

And? Stafford was 0-3 in the playoffs prior to this year.

The team around the QB has a huge impact on the QB's success in the playoffs too.

All I think of when I read this is: Wow, the Lions made the Playoffs 3 times, when did that happen? All I think about them is they've been bad since the since Barry Sanders retired. They weren't really even good then, just Sanders was amazing.

 

[TaLoN]

Jordan Hicks signed for LB... the nail in the coffin for Barr. Barr is gone for realzie this time.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Jordan Hicks signed for LB... the nail in the coffin for Barr. Barr is gone for realzie this time.

Paid too much and hurt too often

 

[TaLoN]

Paid too much and hurt too often

Was never worth his last contract... ever. Should've let him walk to the Jets when he signed there. I said it then, and have said it every day since then.

 

[BlackBusa24]

 

[TaLoN]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

[TaLoN]

Report: Packers trading Pro Bowl WR Davante Adams to Raiders

Report: Packers trading Pro Bowl WR Davante Adams to Raiders​

The Green Bay Packers have agreed to trade wide receiver Davante Adams to the Las Vegas Raiders, according to multiple reports.
The Packers will receive the Raiders' 2022 first- and second-round draft picks, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter. According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, Adams will sign a new contract in Las Vegas worth $141.25 million over five years for an average value $28.25 million per year.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Report: Packers trading Pro Bowl WR Davante Adams to Raiders

lololololololololol

 

[GuerinUp]

rodgers instantly regretting that extension

 

[Ban Hammered]

rodgers instantly regretting that extension

Doubtful. He's getting 50 million a year, and reports are he knew the trade talks were happening. He's only about the money now.

 

[57special]

Thielen restructured contract. Seems to have made him more affordable, but converted some salary to a signing bonus?

 

[Wild11MN]

The NFL salary cap system is so dumb. Teams are like $50M+ over the cap, but then after "restructuring" a few contracts, all of a sudden, they're $10M under the cap.

 

[TaLoN]

The NFL salary cap system is so dumb. Teams are like $50M+ over the cap, but then after "restructuring" a few contracts, all of a sudden, they're $10M under the cap.

Without guaranteed contracts, that's possible.
Players go for it too, because if a player isn't living up to the deal they sign, they find themselves cut instead. Less money is better than no money.

The NFL cap is every bit as real as the NHL cap, but no guaranteed contracts. (Just guarantee clauses)

 

[TaLoN]

Deshaun Watson decides to play for Cleveland Browns, who offered most guaranteed money in NFL history

The Texans will acquire three first-round picks, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick from the Browns.

www.yahoo.com

5yrs $230mil fully guaranteed

 

[Minnewildsota]

Deshaun Watson decides to play for Cleveland Browns, who offered most guaranteed money in NFL history

The Texans will acquire three first-round picks, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick from the Browns.

www.yahoo.com

5yrs $230mil fully guaranteed

I seem to remember a similar trade in value to that not working out very well.

Also, that’s a shit ton of money