No More Soft Players & Career Losers On The 3rd & 4th Lines

[Dreakmur]

Galy was 9th in ES toi gp and Kerf 5th

Yes, Kerfoot played higher because of an injury.

 

[Donnie740]

Long playoff runs are a brutal physical grind. Always have, always will.

It’s absurd to expect any kind playoff success by just rolling two lines and sprinkling in a few inconsequential minutes from the bottom six.

That’s NHL21 video game thinking and belongs in a different forum.

 

[Brobust]

Long playoff runs are a brutal physical grind. Always have, always will.

It’s absurd to expect any kind playoff success by just rolling two lines and sprinkling in a few inconsequential minutes from the bottom six.

That’s NHL21 video game thinking and belongs in a different forum.

That's been Boston's way for years.

 

[FreeBird]

This thread states a basic fact, and a number of you can't face it. A core weakness of the Leafs is NOT defense, not the goalie, but the imbalance between the top 6 and the bottom 6 forwards. No good team can get away with this. People complain about the top 6 not scoring -- but think about it: why didn't they score?

One reason among many is no pressure from the bottom 6. I lived near New York in the great days of the Islanders -- and what people here don't see - because they didn't see the Islanders enough to judge -- is the incredible balance across lines on those teams. The third line wingers -- Nystrom and Tonelli (way underrated) fore checked people into the ground -- something the Leafs do not do -- and each scored 30 goals a year (don't respond about scoring back then, it was highly unusual then to have two third line wingers who scored that much and were as defensively effective. We gave up Kadri, Kapanen, and Johnsson as if it was no big deal, when it was crucial: that third line is miles ahead of any thirds lin this year. And no Kerfoot is not a replacement third line center.

But what can you do when the big four earn that much of the total cap? That's the point: you are cornered. Suggestions? Yes, trade someone expensive (Marner) just to distribute that money over multiple good players, stop thinking about super stars and think about a bunch of good players, and I would add: trade Rielly, because he is overrated and is mistake prone -- constantly -- defensively. We need one major alpha defenseman and Rielly is not it.

Don't forget Conner Brown

 

[17 Clark]

That's been Boston's way for years.

And obviously Mitch mariners idea of the NHL as well where is 6 foot three in PS five

 

[swint]

complete and utter HORSE SHIT

go look at every team still standing,,after the top 6 forwards producers ,it's nothing but garbage offensive numbers from the bottom 6

Tampa’s bottom 6 won them a series clinching game last night... watch some hockey before commenting on a hockey forum boss

 

[swint]

Lol no. Everyone did what they were suppose to except Matthews and Marner. They score 2 goals each and this is a short series.

That’s the “I don’t know anything about hockey and I barely watched the series but I’m angry that they lost” popular take, yes. Is it correct? Absolutely not.

 

[A1LeafNation]

That’s the “I don’t know anything about hockey and I barely watched the series but I’m angry that they lost” popular take, yes. Is it correct? Absolutely not.

Tampa’s bottom 6 won them a series clinching game last night... watch some hockey before commenting on a hockey forum boss

What did Point and Kucherov do? Bet it was more than Matthews and Marner.

 

[Superstar]

Tampa’s bottom 6 won them a series clinching game last night... watch some hockey before commenting on a hockey forum boss

Brayden Point scored the game winning goal last night...he's up to 8 goals now.

 

[ToneDog]

Brayden Point scored the game winning goal last night...he's up to 8 goals now.

So what, Mitch and Matty shot 3 under par yesterday afternoon.

 

[swint]

Same thing Matthews and Marner did all series against Montreal. Generated chances, looked dangerous. Difference is Point and Kucherov aren’t the only guys expected to do that for their team night in and night out. And somehow they got a goal from their third line... which isn’t supposed to happen according to Leafs fans.

 

[swint]

What did Point and Kucherov do? Bet it was more than Matthews and Marner.

Same thing Matthews and Marner did all series against Montreal. Generated chances, looked dangerous. Difference is Point and Kucherov aren’t the only guys expected to do that for their team night in and night out. And somehow they got a goal from their third line... which isn’t supposed to happen according to Leafs fans.

 

[swint]

Brayden Point scored the game winning goal last night...he's up to 8 goals now.

How are the Islanders winning when Barzal was invisible for the entire Penguins series and didn’t show up until 2 games ago against the Bruins? Oh ya they have 3rd and 4th liners who can actually play playoff hockey and aren’t tall skinny guys that can skate really fast in straight lines......

 

[TheProspector]

It's hilarious that anyone thinks what was wrong with the TML was anything but Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner. Every other player on the team either met or exceeded was required of them.

But these kids will figure it out.

Habs are clearly a better team than anyone gave them credit for. They did *not* deserve to win our series (a single post and out goes to a post and in from Matthews, and we win), but they won it in the only way they could -- and they smoked the Jets properly. Definitely a better team.

 

[swint]

It's hilarious that anyone thinks what was wrong with the TML was anything but Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner. Every other player on the team either met or exceeded was required of them.

But these kids will figure it out.

Habs are clearly a better team than anyone gave them credit for. They did *not* deserve to win our series (a single post and out goes to a post and in from Matthews, and we win), but they won it in the only way they could -- and they smoked the Jets properly. Definitely a better team.

Matthews and Marner would’ve had 15 points each that series if Hyman buried the chances he was gifted. Our stars delivered with strong offensive play even while being shut down by arguably the best defensive center in the league, but the 3rd line grinder on their line couldn’t get it done in crunch time.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Same thing Matthews and Marner did all series against Montreal. Generated chances, looked dangerous. Difference is Point and Kucherov aren’t the only guys expected to do that for their team night in and night out. And somehow they got a goal from their third line... which isn’t supposed to happen according to Leafs fans.

Nah their stars produced, ours didn't.

This team lives off metrics and excuses.

 

[therealkoho]

While I agree with the premise of the OP, there's a few things I'd like to add.

1. The Montreal Canadiens are a lot better then any of us thought, and I do mean any of us! Most had the idea that the Leafs would crush the Canadiens in 4, 5 games at the most, hence the amount of vitriol and angst that we're now seeing, this isn't unrealized expectations this is a good old fashioned nut crushing.

2. The entire team was completely shut down, it was partly Price and partly a team that never stops skating, never stops getting in lanes, never stops hitting, never misses an opportunity and plays smothering defense in their own end from the redline in. You might have seen them do the same same thing, only a lot more efficiently to the only team I thought had a chance against the Leafs and that is the Winnipeg Jets and against a more seasoned and highly successful NHL coach, for those of you who still think Keefe is some guy who just fell of the turnip truck.

3. Joe Thornton nor did Wayne Simmonds have any business being on the ice after game 2, it was quite apparent that neither could muster up the needed intensity, stamina, nor the skating that was required for playoff hockey. Playing those two guys on regular shifts gave the Canadiens extra rest and killed any offensive chances the Leafs managed when they were out there. This was on Keefe, he should have put sentimentality aside and played the guys who could compete at that level. I know it was tough with all the injuries, but Brooks, Kossila, Gaudet, Agostino or Richie Clune might have made better choices.

4. I'm not going to say that Tavares would have made the difference but he was the teams 3rd leading scorer during the regular season and he does take a lot of heat off the 1 line. It also would have been nice having a fully healthy Buster instead of the shadow that was in his place.

5. Jack Campbell gave the Leafs quality NHL playoff goaltending a .934 coupled with a 1.81 is nothing to sneeze at. This performance spells the end of Andersen's Maple Leafs days.

6. Obviously the Leafs are going to make some moves, who knows what they might be, IMO moving Marner would be a mistake at this juncture, however if Calgary was willing to part with Matthew Tkachuk I'd be interested.

anyone watching the Knights/Avs or the B's/Isles lot's of great hockey and funny enough only a couple of real superstars

 

[Donnie740]

Tampa’s bottom 6 won them a series clinching game last night... watch some hockey before commenting on a hockey forum boss

That’s the problem when people’s “knowledge” about hockey comes from playing NHL21 video games and drafting a fantasy team.

 

[Superstar]

How are the Islanders winning when Barzal was invisible for the entire Penguins series and didn’t show up until 2 games ago against the Bruins? Oh ya they have 3rd and 4th liners who can actually play playoff hockey and aren’t tall skinny guys that can skate really fast in straight lines......

It's great to have depth and you need your bottom lines to chip in here and there, but if your top 2 lines don't produce, you won't get far.

 

[TheScandal89]

This is a joke right?
Dubas has done very well so far in drafting.
Maybe give them some time to develop before you start bashing all of our draft picks.
I understand you are angry but you have no clue what you are talking about
It's because of fans like you that leafs fans get a bad rep

Idk the teams drafting post 1st round has been pretty pathetic for a number of years. Especially the 2nd/3rd rounds where teams like Tampa found there Points and Kucherovs.

We have had some decent guys like Robertson and Dermott, while trading away Grundstrum, Korshkov, and Durzi who may become decent NHLs.

But the remainder of them are not looking so great, we need a guy like Stotts or SDA, etc. To come in and make an impact, but its not looking likely.

I mean we had a guy in Verhaghe who we dumped for nothing who had a break out year, the type we desperately need from our prospect pool. Granted if it was us developing him, he probably woulda been a lifetime AHLer like we were making Marchment almost become.

 

[TheScandal89]

That's been Boston's way for years.

When they won they were rolling a good line up. From memory they had Bergeron, Marchand, Ryder, Seguin, Horton, Lucic, Krejci, Kelly, Peverly, Recchi, Paille, Campbell

Hell they even traded Blake Wheeler that season

 

[Brobust]

When they won they were rolling a good line up. From memory they had Bergeron, Marchand, Ryder, Seguin, Horton, Lucic, Krejci, Kelly, Peverly, Recchi, Paille, Campbell

Hell they even traded Blake Wheeler that season

That was a whopping 10 years ago.

I was talking about the Bruce Cassidy years.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

It's hilarious that anyone thinks what was wrong with the TML was anything but Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner. Every other player on the team either met or exceeded was required of them.

Hyman didn't play well.

But MaMa aren't Cup Winners.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Idk the teams drafting post 1st round has been pretty pathetic for a number of years. Especially the 2nd/3rd rounds where teams like Tampa found there Points and Kucherovs.

We have had some decent guys like Robertson and Dermott, while trading away Grundstrum, Korshkov, and Durzi who may become decent NHLs.

But the remainder of them are not looking so great, we need a guy like Stotts or SDA, etc. To come in and make an impact, but its not looking likely.

I mean we had a guy in Verhaghe who we dumped for nothing who had a break out year, the type we desperately need from our prospect pool. Granted if it was us developing him, he probably woulda been a lifetime AHLer like we were making Marchment almost become.

Even Point and Kucherov took couple years to make the NHL from their draft year and time to develop. they didnt just come out the players they are today. Perhaps give our prospects time to develop.....

Yeah Robertson was taken in the 2nd round I would say we have done pretty well considering we have been trading our 1st round picks

Grundstrom is the only player who looks like he could turn into a decent NHLer. Im not sold on Korshkov or Durzi. its been years I wouldn't worry about that one.

What was so wrong with our drafting anyways? moving the pick that took Kleven for Roni Hirvonen and Topi Niemela looks like straight gold after their WJC last year Veeti Miettinen looks interesting and it's overall been wayyyy too early

Yeah it sucks that we had Verhaeghe when we let him go we all knew there was a small chance he turned into something. Who's to say he would have developed with us the same way and become the same player.
I wouldn't worry about that one.

Just be patient and let our scouts do their job. they deserve some credit, we actually have a nice little pipeline of prospects. how good..... we will see

 

[ULF_55]

Why do people keep saying we needed a few more goals from the bottom 6? How about the guys in the top 6....

We scored 18 goals against Montreal:
Top 6 - 7 goals
Bottom 6 - 6 goals
Defense - 5 goals

1 goal between marner and Matthew's and people are looking elsewhere?

sleep deprivation?