Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[p.l.f.]

Don't worry everything will be fine

 

[diceman934]

No, because why should I believe he's such a great baseball mind, when his record in recent years suggests otherwise? But sure, let's try to force narratives on posters.

I agree, as well as the fact that he questioned AA moves in Hindsight tells me all I need to know about him...he is the Brian Burke of baseball a legend in his own mind!

 

[Jack Bauer]

No, because why should I believe he's such a great baseball mind, when his record in recent years suggests otherwise? But sure, let's try to force narratives on posters.

AA's record also suggests otherwise though. I'd call him a great baseball mind but his teams have been over .500 how many times? And what went into that 1 time?

 

[Cloned]

What's your point? That's not what I said, nor what it was what you were replying to. You said "just because some people think Shapiro is a great baseball mind doesn't mean he is". Many, many people around baseball called him a great baseball mind this year. But you're willing to discredit it that because... well... the sky is falling.

The sky isn't falling but it's also disingenuous to suggest that AA's departure is a positive development.

 

[Discoverer]

No, because why should I believe he's such a great baseball mind, when his record in recent years suggests otherwise? But sure, let's try to force narratives on posters.

It might be a good idea to look at Cleveland's success relative to the payroll they were working with.

 

[theaub]

AA's record also suggests otherwise though. I'd call him a great baseball mind but his teams have been over .500 how many times? And what went into that 1 time?

4 out of 6 years?

 

[Cloned]

I guess it brings new meaning to when Shapiro said he didn't want to comment on the Jays during their playoff run. Can you imagine the awkwardness if he had said "well, it's a magical run, but I question how many prospects we gave up to do it?"

 

[mcleex]

Too lazy to dig through. Why exactly is he leaving? Is there a specific reason or ...?
You would expect after the successful season they had he would want to stay and build on that

 

[Muston Atthews]

No, because why should I believe he's such a great baseball mind, when his record in recent years suggests otherwise? But sure, let's try to force narratives on posters.

Because people all around baseball and media have called him that

?????????????

 

[Bomber0104]

I personal feel that we allowed a very bright and young baseball man get away....sadly I also think that we will have a hard time getting players to sign on the dotted line to come back and play for us.

AA cleaned up a huge mess that was left behind by the last person similar to Shapiro .....

We will be a mess within two years....

Did you seriously just compare Shapiro to JP Riccardi

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Too lazy to dig through. Why exactly is he leaving? Is there a specific reason or ...?
You would expect after the successful season they had he would want to stay and build on that

AA was vague, one poster (insinuating he had inside connections) claimed its because AA backed Gibson while Shapiro wanted him gone. Another claimed that AA was offered an assistant GM position.

Whatever the case, AA was taking a de facto demotion with Shapiro having the final say on baseball matters.

 

[Eyedea]

I agree, as well as the fact that he questioned AA moves in Hindsight tells me all I need to know about him...he is the Brian Burke of baseball a legend in his own mind!

Your lack of reasoning certainly makes me agree with you!

 

[Muston Atthews]

The sky isn't falling but it's also disingenuous to suggest that AA's departure is a positive development.

I never said it was. It also would be silly to say its a negative thing without Shapiro having even started the job yet.

It might be a good idea to look at Cleveland's success relative to the payroll they were working with.

Don't bother. He's already stated that a bigger payroll doesn't matter.

 

[Longshot]

AA's record also suggests otherwise though. I'd call him a great baseball mind but his teams have been over .500 how many times? And what went into that 1 time?

Looking at the overall records of both AA and Shapiro is an unfair method of judging them. AA was GM for six years and the first three were not about win/loss records. They were about rebuilding the system and positioning the team in the draft (comp. picks, etc). It wasn't until 2013 that the organizational philosophy shifted to trying to win right away.

The same holds true for Shapiro (obviously I'm not as familiar with what has been happening in Cleveland as I am with Toronto).

 

[diceman934]

Did you seriously just compare Shapiro to JP Riccardi

Yes, same mind set....

 

[JS19]

AA's record also suggests otherwise though. I'd call him a great baseball mind but his teams have been over .500 how many times? And what went into that 1 time?

Considering he inherited a garbage-fest of a time from Ricciardi, and the few years that the team sucked due to transition years, he did extremely well when it came to building the core into what it is today. Also consider that AA built .500 calibre teams 4 out of 6 times, compared to Shapiro's consistent .400 seasons. That alone is worth more than what Shapiro had done.

It might be a good idea to look at Cleveland's success relative to the payroll they were working with.

Even with that in mind, you would think they'd have one of the best farms in the league. Doesn't look like it to me.

 

[Bomber0104]

Oh so it was home field that cost us! Thanks, and here I thought it was having first and third with nobody out in the ninth and not being able to score that cost us. Silly me.

its all a part of it.. you think the umpire would dare call the 2-1 pitch to Revere for a strike if he has been destroyed by the fans 4 pitches earlier on the call to Navarro

You think the Jays would have been better off playing games 6 and possibly 7 at Kauffman where they couldn't win a game there

 

[Loosie]

Depends how "devastated" those Jays staffers are that AA is leaving.

And if those staffers include the scouts and they are "devastated" enough to leave with him...

If I'm not mistake they are still under contract, they can't really just up and leave.

 

[JS19]

Because people all around baseball and media have called him that

?????????????

So people have said it means it has more meaning than his own track record. Ok

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

It is quite amazing how there was mostly nothing but negativity towards AA for 6 years and because of 1 good season now all the fans are upset he's gone.

 

[Longshot]

Yes, same mind set....

What is that opinion based on?

When I was looking at Shapiro's record, I admit my first thought was that it was similar to JP's (minus the playoff appearances). Which made a lot of sense. During the JP era the Jays behaved like a mid-medium market team. Lower payrolls, etc, etc. Very similar to Cleveland.

I never once thought of comparing them on a personality basis, because I have no idea what Shapiro is like.

 

[Bomber0104]

No, because why should I believe he's such a great baseball mind, when his record in recent years suggests otherwise? But sure, let's try to force narratives on posters.

you know hes been working with a bottom 5 payroll right?

and you know hes been managing in a city that most athletes wouldn't want to be caught dead in. People think Toronto is bad. Cleveland is a lot worse

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Your lack of reasoning certainly makes me agree with you!

 

[theaub]

I mean Shapiro hasn't even been the GM since like 2010

 

[Muston Atthews]

So people have said it means it has more meaning than his own track record. Ok

Yes. Plenty of baseball minds. More money = better/more scouts = better chance at draft picks. You seem to disregard Cleveland having one of the best rotations in the league as well.