After the Greg Cronin curve that is about 8 points in 14 games.
Player Discussion Trevor Zegras : Part III
- Thread starter Ducks DVM
- Start date
After the Greg Cronin curve that is about 8 points in 14 games.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
Given how well the rest of his game looked I'm just going to chalk that up to, shit happens.
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
I don’t think it’s that simple unfortunately, he’s been unproductive for a long time now and we’re running out of excuses for it. He’s on his way to having an early career crisis and I don’t trust the coaching staff to help him out of it, especially since I think they caused it.
He’s certainly a much more dangerous player when he’s playing center and it’s criminal they took this long to move him back. He was responsible for the first goal we scored last night with his forecheck, but he can’t generate any offense himself. Starting to wonder whether he’s kind of the straw that stirs the drink offensively and that it’s no coincidence that we’ve been totally dead offensively since he disappeared. I might be getting the cause backwards, but I dunno. Another thing the coaching staff has to answer for.
Z is still my favorite Duck, it sucks to see him struggle like this.
The fact they moved him to wing and coached the Jack Hughes out of him is near criminal.
My problem with coaching has basically been trying to force him(and the team) into a mold meant for larger players.
A) You will play dump and chase hockey despite 1) weighing 50lbs less than the defenders 2) having god like hands 3) being able to skate/possess into the zone like Terry. Honestly Terry/Leo/Z, lesser extent Zell/Minty can skate into the zone with possession and should not dump it deep and pray we get it back with Fabri or Terry being the only effective forecheckers.
B) You will play man on man defense despite being unable to clear larger forwards from the slot and net front.
C) You will play wing despite not having Terry like drive to forecheck and are less skilled in puck battles.
I know it is a balance but it was brought up last night on the GDT. I want cocky Z back, he needs to be flashy sometimes. The behind the back pass he made to Minty who was not expecting it last night near the end of the game is flashes of what used to be there. It was also not dangerous since it was low in the attacking zone. Does he need to not make dumb blind passes at the offensive blue line sure… but Getz also made dumb drop passes sometimes and he is going to get his number in the rafters.
I dont want them coaching all the scoring out of Z/Zell.
My problem with coaching has basically been trying to force him(and the team) into a mold meant for larger players.
A) You will play dump and chase hockey despite 1) weighing 50lbs less than the defenders 2) having god like hands 3) being able to skate/possess into the zone like Terry. Honestly Terry/Leo/Z, lesser extent Zell/Minty can skate into the zone with possession and should not dump it deep and pray we get it back with Fabri or Terry being the only effective forecheckers.
B) You will play man on man defense despite being unable to clear larger forwards from the slot and net front.
C) You will play wing despite not having Terry like drive to forecheck and are less skilled in puck battles.
I know it is a balance but it was brought up last night on the GDT. I want cocky Z back, he needs to be flashy sometimes. The behind the back pass he made to Minty who was not expecting it last night near the end of the game is flashes of what used to be there. It was also not dangerous since it was low in the attacking zone. Does he need to not make dumb blind passes at the offensive blue line sure… but Getz also made dumb drop passes sometimes and he is going to get his number in the rafters.
I dont want them coaching all the scoring out of Z/Zell.
Goose of Reason
El Zilcho
- May 1, 2013
- 9,712
- 9,427
I think his confidence is in the gutter offensively, it feels like he can't even hit the net with his shot these days. When he first broke into the league he worked on his shooting a lot, he used to actually rip one timers on the powerplay and be a scoring threat but that's gone now. However, i think it needs to be said just how much his 3 zone game has improved, he legitimately looks like our best defensive center at this point and Cronin has been putting him out for more d-zone draws.
He's been our best skater since going back to center, but nothings going in. And since that is such a team wide problem, there's nobody we can really put beside him to try and remedy that. Verbeek needs to stop sitting on his hands and try to acquire an actual top 6 NHL player, and not just sign bottom 6 free agents.
I think Sennecke is the ideal winger for a guy like Z, but we can't just keep waiting for our prospects to step in and start taking over major roles. We need established talent and we have none.
He's been our best skater since going back to center, but nothings going in. And since that is such a team wide problem, there's nobody we can really put beside him to try and remedy that. Verbeek needs to stop sitting on his hands and try to acquire an actual top 6 NHL player, and not just sign bottom 6 free agents.
I think Sennecke is the ideal winger for a guy like Z, but we can't just keep waiting for our prospects to step in and start taking over major roles. We need established talent and we have none.
Deuce22
Registered User
Defensive responsibility is great, but only part of the equation for a winning team. Zegras was moved to wing (IMO) because Verbeek/Cronin didn’t trust him defensively at center. A big mistake. The best defense is a good offense, possessing the puck and threatening the other team’s net. Last night was a slight improvement. More effort in gaining the puck and keeping it. Zegras role should be threatening the opponents D, not huddled up in his own zone trying to stay between his man and the net.
Reveille1984
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
- 953
- 582
This just kind of stems from the coaching philosophy of Cronin/Verbeek overall, which seems to be turning the roster into some bruising, forechecking, board battling monster when it doesn't have any of the personnel for that.
The problem with having offensively gifted players focus only on the things they're bad it is that a lot of the things guys like Zegras are good at can't be taught. A player like Lundestrom gets into the NHL by being good at positioning, being defensively responsible, forechecking, motor, etc. since gifts like hands, offensive instincts, small space puck-handling, shot pace/accuracy, etc. can't really be taught to the same degree.
Having an offensive creator like Zegras focus so hard on defensive responsibility that he now looks like a 25 point guy who's scared to make a mistake or miss a defensive assignment is a joke of player mismanagement. Trevor isn't completely absolved of all responsibility here, but when nearly every offensive player on the team is on pace for some of the worst seasons of their career (barring Terry) then that speaks to a bigger problem.
I think it's clear that the coaching system just isn't working. We have a team full of high end, high potential young players especially offensively and we're not scoring goals. Something is obviously broken and it's not the players, because the only player who is playing well consistently is the goalie.
Z is at his best when he's yapping and engaging emotionally. He seems to have lost the pest part of his game too.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I don't deny that his game still has flaws. But I saw it as a huge positive that he seemed to come alive back at center. (And what a "coincidence" it happened after he went public with hating wing.) If that doesn't light a fire under Verbeek that there is a huge coaching crisis on this team then I fear we are beyond fixing as a team.
Z's play last night, along with the multiple recent public, player comments couldn't be a bigger red flag. Everybody is allowed to make mistakes including Verbeek. How you respond to acknowledging and fixing those mistakes is the key to success or failure. IMO, the next move has to be Verbeek's.
Z is the most prominent victim of the 4C club: Coach Cronin's Clueless Clusterf***.
It's not only Zegras. Our coaching is very obviously taking the skill (and fun) out of our players. It's not losing doing this, we looked miserable even when we were winning (thanks Dosty). And then take Lybyshkins comments.
This is my biggest gripe about our coaching staff. We're ruining the years of "work" we did before. It's beyond frustrating.
This is my biggest gripe about our coaching staff. We're ruining the years of "work" we did before. It's beyond frustrating.
Frosted Tips
Fire everyone!
I quickly turned off the Minnesota game so I have been unsure what he said about center vs. wing but I believe this is what we're talking about. In case someone else missed this as well:
Ive said for a very long time that Z needs to be a winger. I am coming around to the fact that I was wrong about that. I think the front office might be doing the same. We have a problem in that we have a lot of potential talent down the middle and not enough room for them all.
Zs confidence is shot. So is the confidence of a lot of our guys. I dont believe that at this stage we can say anyone is good or bad where they are at, because the system is broken and the players are phoning it in.
Should Mac be moved to wing instead? Maybe. The problem is that I dont trust the coaching or the environment right now enough to be trying these kind of moves and getting any real answers.
If they want to keep Z, I think they need to move him to center and as much as it goes against everything I believe in as far as systems go, just let him go do his thing.
Zs confidence is shot. So is the confidence of a lot of our guys. I dont believe that at this stage we can say anyone is good or bad where they are at, because the system is broken and the players are phoning it in.
Should Mac be moved to wing instead? Maybe. The problem is that I dont trust the coaching or the environment right now enough to be trying these kind of moves and getting any real answers.
If they want to keep Z, I think they need to move him to center and as much as it goes against everything I believe in as far as systems go, just let him go do his thing.
dracom
Registered User
All Mighty
Registered User
Props to you for admitting you were wrong about something. A lot of people here could do that more often. And I was also on the “Z to wing” train, but he’s made it pretty clear which one he is better at and what he’s more comfortable with.
Relevant to the conversation:
forums.hfboards.com
Michkov to be healthy scratched tonight
100% goal+assist+shootout goal and all because Torts healthy scratched him for 2 games, otherwise it definitely wouldn't have happened! Torts is a genius! Sure is. Look how well Andrae is doing in place of Drysdale.
Im also not ruling out the possibility that Z to wing has failed because of the coaching. But his comments, mixed with the comments of others like Terry and Killer, lead me towards the here and now as opposed to the long term. They need to be making decisions that fix whats wrong in the locker room as well as on the ice.
Maybe a new coaching staff comes in, gets Z excited about wing and he thrives. Maybe they do that to Mac. Maybe they both stay at center and we have Leo/Z/Mac/Gaucher. I just dont trust the current coaching staff and what they have done.
It's funny, 90% of societal problems are solved if people could self reflect and admit fault. Agreed with the kudos!
HabsAddict
Registered User
I like to see him playing with Laine, Caufield and Demodov. These are players who are at Zs old level of creativity and scoring.
Then add Hutson creativity to those kinds of players.
But.. at what trade cost.
And what future $$ demands.
Then add Hutson creativity to those kinds of players.
But.. at what trade cost.
And what future $$ demands.
we have players like that for him too. Probably a moot point as well per the comments made by Johnston.
HabsAddict
Registered User
Wing is easier to coach and play then center.
We have Dach who is not himself after missing a year dye to injury. He's normally a center but moved to wing on the top line to get him going.
I can see the same logic applied to Z, but it may seem like a demotion to him. Technically it is, but show them that they are wrong instead of trying to argue otherwise.
I don't know enough about the Ducks to make any definitive comments, what i know are the rumours linking Z to the Habs. I like him but he wont get treated any differently by MSL. We are having all kinds of problems right now and i doubt the GM wants to add Z, regardless of cost.
Too bad because i drool at the idea of a Laine/CC/Demidov/Hutson/Z power play.
Or not...
Z looks like an absolute fish out of water at wing. He looks dangerous and engaged at center.
HabsAddict
Registered User
On paper, wing can be as simple as north-south and positioning. But, who knows how a player views what he has to do or the challanges of what he's doing.
Rarely does a winger just walk into the center position vs a center playing wing.
I just came here to judge fans opinion of Z. I was expecting a bit of the Dubois hate the LA fans had but instead see a lot of support.
Good luck...
