Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[theaub]

Why wouldn't you trust Shapiro? Do you automatically not trust everyone you've never met or dealt with before?

His awful draft record and inability to build a roster outside of trades made with a team that was about to be contracted don't inspire much confidence. The fact that his Cleveland teams averaged less wins per year in his reign in the worst division in baseball than the Jays did in AA's reign...also does not inspire much confidence.

But I do agree, considering he hasn't even started yet pretty dumb to declare him a failure already.

 

[rojac]

Outside of multiple direct quotes from Shapiro indicating as such, no.

Okay, I haven't seen any of those quotes. But I have to ask, did the quotes clarify if he was a business-only GM by contract (that is, his contract forbid him having final say in baseball decisions) or by choice (that is, he chose, like Beeston, to give his GM a large amount of autonomy)?

 

[PJJ]

you guys are so mad, yet shapiro has a much better track record

 

[Menzinger]

They chose to keep what is basically the same management structure the team has always had (and what lot of teams have) as opposed to hamstringing the president.

And in the process lost one of Baseball's best young minds.

I don't see why fans should be happy with losing the baseball guy to appease the business types of the organization.

AA is essentially choosing unelploymenr for a full year (at least not being to work as a manager) rather than having five years worth of job security.

This tells me something is seriously rotten in the Blue Jays management/ownership structure.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Showing the executive the year the door after he didn't want to give up his control.

You know who else did that? The Denver Nuggets. How's that working out for them?

How has that worked out for the Raptors to date?

 

[JS19]

What people want to dismantle it other than the minority on a hockey forum baseball thread? Why wouldn't you trust Shapiro? Do you automatically not trust everyone you've never met or dealt with before?

Why do you trust him? Consistent .400 seasons from 2008-2010 as a GM after a successful ALCS run? How about the consistent .500/.400 seasons with only 1 Wild Card appearance in 2013 (in a game that they LOST, so technically they didn't even make the postseason) before ******** the bed again with .400 season after season as the President?

Boy, I'd definitely trust him with such a riveting track record.

you guys are so mad, yet shapiro has a much better track record

In what world does Shapiro have a better track record?

 

[Stand Witness]

AA to the Expos (E4)

 

[Jack Bauer]

don't you think that's a touch melodramatic.

again. we don't even know what Shapiro will do, who he'll replace AA with or what they'll do.

AA decided of his own free will not to accept his job. that's on him. that's not a Toronto sports day thing.

Because he wasnt offered HIS job. He was essentially offered to be Shapiro's assistant as Shapiro would have all final say.

An executive winning the award of the best executive on a day he leaves because his replacement was hired months before?

That's so 'Toronto Sports' it's not even funny. Actually it is funny, because if you couldn't find humor in this mess you'd be pretty depressed.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

They chose to keep what is basically the same management structure the team has always had (and what lot of teams have) as opposed to hamstringing the president.

Not necessarily given that there are rumours that the VP of baseball ops and the director of pro scouting may also be leaving.

 

[Satan]

what the ****

 

[Edo]

Stupider things have happened in baseball. Loria said he wanted to make the Miami Marlins competitive and need public funds to build a new stadium. And then he traded away Buerhle, Reyes, and so on to the Jays in a move that screams "lol we're not competing."

Never assume.

Loria is Loria. He did it for the money. We all knew he was going to do something along those lines once the Marlins got their stadium.

Why would ownership even consider a rebuild in Toronto? A rebuild in baseball last 5 years. Insane to think that it would be even considered.

 

[The Man in White]

you guys are so mad, yet shapiro has a much better track record

How?

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Well Shapiro is turning out to be the bad guy... that's not good.

 

[10coach*]

GM's will go anywhere if given the chance.

True statement

 

[TheTotalPackage]

@EricFrancis: Perhaps now is the best time to remind people the whole world had him fired 4 months ago when they started courting Shapiro.

Big deal. GM's and managers have also been deemed safe because they had a great team on paper at the beginning of the year only to crash and burn during the year.

Things change.

 

[Menzinger]

don't you think that's a touch melodramatic.

again. we don't even know what Shapiro will do, who he'll replace AA with or what they'll do.

AA decided of his own free will not to accept his job. that's on him. that's not a Toronto sports day thing.

Shapiro hasn't done anything yet to earn my trust - AA's results speak for themselves. I appreciate your optimism, but I'm pretty angry about this.

 

[Longshot]

AA did what I expected. Praised everybody. Talked about how great everybody was. Said he wanted to stay. They wanted him to stay. Team will win next year.

And now he's gone.

So, obviously, some of what he said wasn't true. The key is reading between the lines to figure out what's up and what's down.

I have two hunches, and they're just a guesses.

AA didn't like the direction the team is going to be taken with Shapiro in control - as in, he thought they were going to try and continue on the path he had set up and Shapiro indicated that wasn't the case.

Or, AA realized he was being set up as the fall guy by the new guy. Shapiro comes in, takes over, re-hires him as GM and at the first sign of trouble he's jettisoned and fired.

 

[theaub]

Okay, I haven't seen any of those quotes. But I have to ask, did the quotes clarify if he was a business-only GM by contract (that is, his contract forbid him having final say in baseball decisions) or by choice (that is, he chose, like Beeston, to give his GM a large amount of autonomy)?

Latter - I will try to find the quotes I saw them on twitter this morning but it was a Cleveland guy who I can't recall off the top of my head.

e (general gist): https://twitter.com/ericviola_

 

[rojac]

This is not the same structure. AA had full control on the baseball side, outside of term/$$ which was Beeston.

Assuming AA left based on the general thought, Shapiro would have final say on term/$$ and personnel.

But he only had full control because Beeston gave it to him, not Rogers. From Rogers point of view, Beeston ran the team and AA worked for him.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

How has that worked out for the Raptors to date?

Two first round exits. Next year will be a huge test for Masai but I'll give him credit for building a winner, unlike BC, who was garbage.

 

[Blitzkrug]

The Toronto Blue Jays aren't the Denver Nuggets.

Completley different situations.

Oh no?

Denver finished 57-25 that year, good for 2nd in the West, and then lost in the playoffs because they were a few pieces away.

Blue Jays finish at 93-69, good for second in the AL, and then lost in the playoffs because they're still a few pieces away.

I have no reason to trust Shapiro given how Cleveland has done **** all outside of one trip to the ALCS and a wild card in a 10 year span.

Edit: It should also be noted that Denver's new GM canned the reigning coach of the year. Something the new brass will likely repeat in dumping a solid manager in Gibbons.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

you guys are so mad, yet shapiro has a much better track record

Welcome to Toronto! Where fans have the final say.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Two first round exits. Next year will be a huge test for Masai but I'll give him credit for building a winner, unlike BC, who was garbage.

You mean this season.

 

[Mitchy]

right?!

like. it just sounds to me Shapiro has all the same powers that Beeston had. the only difference is, Shapiro may want to deploy those powers more, but we don't know. It just feels that AA didn't want to be bothered. Which is his decision but i don't get the mud slinging.

1/3rd of the NHL has this set up already and they function just fine. and I get people rage at Hockey/Baseball comparisions, but I figure a front office is a front office is a front office. AA would have had to report to SOMEONE and if AA wanted to go do something massive, he would have had to tell SOMEONE and that someone would have had the authority to say no.

so. once again.
I don't see what the big deal is.
Contract offered, AA said, let's stop rendering the sackcloth and ashes and be all dooom doom doom.

this is severely understating it. it's not just about AA not having complete autonomy. For instance, if the reports about AA and Shapiro having different viewpoints on how they want to run the team, then it's not surprising to see why AA wanted to leave.

 

[oil Leaks]