Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[Muston Atthews]

If Shapiro really wants to have full control of baseball ops, I don't really know why Rogers has decided to give him the keys to the franchise.

Since 2010, Cleveland has gone 475-496. The Blue Jays 489-483.

I mean, I'd understand if it was a guy like Dombrowski, who's had sustained success... but I can't see how Shapiro is an upgrade over AA on the baseball side.

And sure, he had to work with a lower payroll. But he also wasn't in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox every year.

Maybe it'll work out... who knows. But in terms of optics, this is terrible for Rogers, and I don't think the potential benefit outweighs that.

Best case scenario, Shapiro takes the team to the WS next year, but AA still gets most of the credit. If they don't make the playoffs... well all that blame is going on him.

Cleveland won one less game than we did this year and missed the playoffs while we won the AL East.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yes. He was. His previous job was as GM to report to Paul Beeston. His offered job was as GM to report to Mark Shapiro. Only thing that changed was the man he would have to report to. Everything I've heard is that he didn't want to report to anyone anymore. His ego took hold.

Main difference was that Beeston wasn't involved in most of the baseball ops. He let AA run the show. Shapiro was not going to do that.

 

[one77]

Replacing AA with Shapiro... brutal. 3 steps back for the Jays here. Hopefully this does not spell the end of the team we had this year. Hopefully Rogers gives Shapiro the go ahead to spend money and add to this team. Come back stronger next year.

But I have my doubts, in both Rogers and in Shapiro. I think this is the end of the team we saw this year. Price likely isn't going to be signed, would not surprise me if Shapiro traded Bautista/Encarnacion/Tulo as well... This is going to bring the Jays back to the dark days.

 

[Sokil]

Cleveland won one less game than we did this year and missed the playoffs while we won the AL East.

You mean won 12 less games

 

[DaveMatthew]

Cleveland won one less game than we did this year and missed the playoffs while we won the AL East.

Cleveland won 12 less games that we did this year and were 4.5 back of a wild card so...

 

[Sokil]

Cleveland won 12 less games that we did this year and were 4.5 back of a wild card so...

He's thinking of the Dodgers

 

[Morguee]

If Shapiro really wants to have full control of baseball ops, I don't really know why Rogers has decided to give him the keys to the franchise.

Since 2010, Cleveland has gone 475-496. The Blue Jays 489-483.

I mean, I'd understand if it was a guy like Dombrowski, who's had sustained success... but I can't see how Shapiro is an upgrade over AA on the baseball side.

And sure, he had to work with a lower payroll. But he also wasn't in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox every year.

Maybe it'll work out... who knows. But in terms of optics, this is terrible for Rogers, and I don't think the potential benefit outweighs that.

Best case scenario, Shapiro takes the team to the WS next year, but AA still gets most of the credit. If they don't make the playoffs... well all that blame is going on him.

Yes, because AA is leaving him a solid starting pitching rotation and very deep and experienced bullpen. I also don't forsee Tulo, EE and Bautista ever being hurt for long periods of time next year. This team may be in for a hell of a reality check next year.

 

[TF97]

I guess this means Sanchez will be dealt

I would tear up

 

[Muston Atthews]

You mean won 12 less games

Cleveland won 12 less games that we did this year and were 4.5 back of a wild card so...

Got my facts messed up. Woops. Before this year Cleveland has had better records than the Blue Jays have had.

 

[theaub]

He's thinking of the Dodgers

Dodgers definitely made the playoffs.

Every team with 86+ wins made the playoffs this year...

 

[theaub]

During AA's reign, the Jays had a better record than Cleveland 4/6 years

This means absolutely nothing, as Shapiro wasn't even the GM. But I still don't know where this argument is going on either side.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yes, because AA is leaving him a solid starting pitching rotation and very deep and experienced bullpen. I also don't forsee Tulo, EE and Bautista ever being hurt for long periods of time next year. This team may be in for a hell of a reality check next year.

I didn't say he deserved the blame, but the casual fan (the fan that Rogers needs to most) will blame it on this change.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Main difference was that Beeston wasn't involved in most of the baseball ops. He let AA run the show. Shapiro was not going to do that.

He wasn't involved but had the ability to nix deals, and he did. The difference is that AA had a trusting relationship with Beeston where Beeston didn't have to get involved in baseball ops. He assumingly did not have the same relationship with Shapiro and was not willing to try and build that.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Got my facts messed up. Woops. Before this year Cleveland has had better records than the Blue Jays have had.

Yikes.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Got my facts messed up. Woops. Before this year Cleveland has had better records than the Blue Jays have had.

You'd think so, but from 2010-2014 the Indians went 394-416, and the Jays went 396-414.

 

[KuleminFan41]

If Shapiro really wants to have full control of baseball ops, I don't really know why Rogers has decided to give him the keys to the franchise.

Since 2010, Cleveland has gone 475-496. The Blue Jays 489-483.

I mean, I'd understand if it was a guy like Dombrowski, who's had sustained success... but I can't see how Shapiro is an upgrade over AA.

And sure, he had to work with a lower payroll. But he also wasn't in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox every year.

Shapiro has 2 executive of the year awards. Cleveland also lost in a game 7 in the ALCS against the eventual winners Red Sox all the while having one of the lowest budgets in baseball. People need to stop acting like he doesn't know what he's doing.

Also, that record is a little misleading. You can't exactly cherry pick stats just because it works for you. in 2013 the Indians won 92 ball games and in 2015 the Jays won 93. I can cherry pick stats too, since 2011 the Indians have had a better record than the Jays with 406-403 and 398-412 for the Jays. All the while having consistently in the bottom 5-10 in payroll except for 2013 where they were 14th .

 

[Jack Bauer]

I didn't say he deserved the blame, but the casual fan (the fan that Rogers needs to most) will blame it on this change.

They're also the fan who cares the least about all that stuff when the team is doing well.

It wasn't casual fans chanting Thank You Alex in Baltimore. Casual fans didn't even know who the Jays GM was until the last week of September.

 

[Discoverer]

Royals had a much much deeper farm than the Jays.

This is not even remotely close to being kinda partially true.

 

[bullocks]

Got my facts messed up. Woops. Before this year Cleveland has had better records than the Blue Jays have had.

How could u get your facts messed up? If Cleavland finished with one less win they would have easily made the playoffs

 

[DaveMatthew]

Shapiro has 2 executive of the year awards. Cleveland also lost in a game 7 in the ALCS against the eventual winners Red Sox all the while having one of the lowest budgets in baseball. People need to stop acting like he doesn't know what he's doing.

Also, that record is a little misleading. You can't exactly cherry pick stats just because it works for you. in 2013 the Indians won 92 ball games and in 2015 the Jays won 93. I can cherry pick stats too, since 2011 the Indians have had a better record than the Jays with 406-403 and 398-412 for the Jays. All the while having consistently in the bottom 5-10 in payroll except for 2013 where they were 14th .

So basically it looks like a very lateral move... in terms of performance of their respective teams. Yes, Shapiro was handicapped by his budget, but Anthopoulos was handicapped by playing in a division with the Red Sox and Yankees, who spend money as if they print it.

Why make the change then?

I'm sure there are plenty of more than capable execs out there who'd be great at managing the stadium upgrades and corporate sales strategy while leaving AA to baseball ops.

 

[bullocks]

Shapiro has 2 executive of the year awards. Cleveland also lost in a game 7 in the ALCS against the eventual winners Red Sox all the while having one of the lowest budgets in baseball. People need to stop acting like he doesn't know what he's doing.

Also, that record is a little misleading. You can't exactly cherry pick stats just because it works for you. in 2013 the Indians won 92 ball games and in 2015 the Jays won 93. I can cherry pick stats too, since 2011 the Indians have had a better record than the Jays with 406-403 and 398-412 for the Jays. All the while having consistently in the bottom 5-10 in payroll except for 2013 where they were 14th .

Indians also played in quite the easy division.

 

[10coach*]

This is not even remotely close to being kinda partially true.

Indeed it is. Jays farm nothing to speak of. Royals had a top farm for years and years.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Yikes.

?

The point the guy was making is how strong the AL East has been compared to the central.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Indeed it is. Jays farm nothing to speak of. Royals had a top farm for years and years.

If the Jays farm sucked then Price and Tulowitzki would not have been traded here.

 

[Muston Atthews]

You'd think so, but from 2010-2014 the Indians went 394-416, and the Jays went 396-414.

I meant the two years prior to this year.

How could u get your facts messed up? If Cleavland finished with one less win they would have easily made the playoffs

Because I've been reading a lot of different facts for a while now and I messed up years.