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Blue Jays Discussion: No longer the off-season. It's time for real baseball

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Merryweather we hardly knew thee.

In other news Matz has been a revelation. He might end up our number 3 by seasons end. Possibly 2 but I'm not sure how Jays feel about back to back lefties.
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
Merryweather we hardly knew thee.

In other news Matz has been a revelation. He might end up our number 3 by seasons end. Possibly 2 but I'm not sure how Jays feel about back to back lefties.
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I'm not ready to anoint him anything more than a 4/5 solely on the back of spring training performances, but it'll be great if he can find his form and take some of the load off of the other guys. If, for example, he rebounds and Stripling goes back to his pre-2020 form a rotation of Ryu/Pearson/Ray/Matz/Stripling will be pretty good.
 
Matz average FB today was 94.8 MPH. Isn't he around 91-92?

Just with how little McGuire seems to be playing, I think Kirk has the backup catcher job secure.
 
canucksfan said:
Matz average FB today was 94.8 MPH. Isn't he around 91-92?

Just with how little McGuire seems to be playing, I think Kirk has the backup catcher job secure.
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I still think McGuire gets a spot since he's out of options and management seems to like him, but what's surprised me is that Adams is getting pretty regular chances, too.

I shouldn't be surprised since he's hit well in the minors and would have been in AAA last year's if there had been a season, but it caught me off guard just how close he is. I wouldn't even mind losing McGuire because they would just roll with Jansen and Kirk in the minors with Adams ready to step in any time.
 
Play McGuire all Spring, hopefully he plays well and you can trade him. Jansen and Kirk break camp.

If you cant trade McGuire then you have him as your backup to start the season. McGuire will be on a short leash. If he doesnt play well he gets moved or goes on waivers to make room for Kirk.
 
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Still a teenager, Orelvis Martinez's 'explosiveness' drawing attention in Dunedin - TSN.ca

As a teenager this spring, Martinez has impressed with his baseball maturity, even if his baby face gives away his age.

“Just the way he’s working on things and going about his business, it’s a very sort of calm and professional approach, with some legitimate explosiveness to his game,” Tinnish said.

A little early advice from Guerrero may have helped.

Sitting down for a Zoom chat that he called his first-ever interview, Martinez, via team translator Tito Lebron, relayed some simple instructions from Vladdy.

“Vladimir, first thing he told me is to respect everyone here and make sure to be on time for everything,” Martinez said.

“They’ve been great to me. Some of the guys talk to me and tell me what I should do to get better, things to do. It feels good being here in camp pretty much at the same level as them for now.”

Timing up a fastball isn’t going to be a problem.

When Martinez debuted in the now-erased Gulf Coast League in the summer of 2019 as a 17-year-old, about two-and-a-half years below the average age, he was already putting up some of the most impressive exit velocities in the circuit, according to those familiar with the data.

With impressive bat speed, barrel control and torque in his swing, Martinez smiles when asked if he’s always knocked seams off baseballs.

“Since I was a young kid,” Martinez said. “I mean, I knew I hit the ball hard and all the people around me, the people I played against, they all noticed that since I was young.”

A favourite saying of scouts is “hitters hit” and Martinez fits nicely into that bucket.

...................

There are moving parts to the swing that might be tested when he reaches the upper minors eventually, but he checks all three of the important boxes: power, hit tool, plate discipline.

“I can be aggressive when I want, I can be a good contact hitter if I want,” Martinez said. “I’ve got some pop, so if I feel like I want to hit it hard or if I want to go the other way, I can go the other way. That’s the way I describe myself. I don’t want to describe myself as just a power guy or an aggressive guy.”

...................

Given the pedigree and the early production, it’s not going out on much of a limb to say Martinez could find himself as a top 20 or so prospect in baseball in the next couple of years if things go as expected.

With his full season debut on the horizon this year if the minor leagues ever get going, Martinez is on just about every watch list out there.

Being exposed to advanced pitching as well as major league coaching last September when he got the call to go to the team’s alternate site in Rochester for some seasoning has helped ease the transition to big-league camp in Dunedin this spring.

“I really felt very comfortable,” Martinez said. “As soon as they gave me the news that I was going to Rochester, I just prepared my mind for that and when I got there I was really comfortable.”
 
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Pink Mist said:
From CF to 100 mph: Indians' Anthony Gose shunned pitching for years; now it might save his career

Anyone following former Blue Jay top outfielding prospect Anthony Gose's journey back to the majors as a pitcher with Cleveland? Really rooting for him, I always found his such an intriguing prospect who never really made it, was frustrating player
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Yeah he has been trying to do this for years. I remember him having a gun in CF when on the Jays. I was a big Gose fan, thinking he would be elite defensive CF with elite speed and an average bat. I was not happy when we traded him for Travis because i thought he would finally get CF after Rasmus left. Looks like i was wrong on that trade.
 
Pink Mist said:
From CF to 100 mph: Indians' Anthony Gose shunned pitching for years; now it might save his career

Anyone following former Blue Jay top outfielding prospect Anthony Gose's journey back to the majors as a pitcher with Cleveland? Really rooting for him, I always found his such an intriguing prospect who never really made it, was frustrating player
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I really hope it does work out for him, but it seems like we've seen a bunch of "He throws so hard and might actually be in the majors soon!" articles about Gose over the last couple years. Meanwhile he's walked 60 batters in 65 innings in the minors. I'm skeptical, to say the least.
 
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Discoverer said:
I really hope it does work out for him, but it seems like we've seen a bunch of "He throws so hard and might actually be in the majors soon!" articles about Gose over the last couple years. Meanwhile he's walked 60 batters in 65 innings in the minors. I'm skeptical, to say the least.
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Yeah it really makes me wonder though what his career trajectory would have been if he was developed as a pitcher instead of an outfielder. Obviously his control is an issue, but that's something which could have maybe been developed earlier in his career. He definitely has the stuff
 
I would be very surprised to see Kirk break camp with the Jays. He's got options where other players do not, and he needs playing time to continue to develop. He doesnt do the Jays any good sitting on the bench and playing once or twice a week.

The kid needs at bats and needs to show what he can do behind the plate. Give him more reps in AAA to start the season and see how the tandem of Jansen/McGuire workout to start the season. At the half way point of season, if McGuire isnt producing and Kirk is, make the switch.

For all we know this season may be Jansen's breakout. He does seem poised to do so. If it happens there will be less at bats and opportunities for Kirk.

Would be counter productive to keep him with big club to start.
 
BlueForever75 said:
I would be very surprised to see Kirk break camp with the Jays. He's got options where other players do not, and he needs playing time to continue to develop. He doesnt do the Jays any good sitting on the bench and playing once or twice a week.

The kid needs at bats and needs to show what he can do behind the plate. Give him more reps in AAA to start the season and see how the tandem of Jansen/McGuire workout to start the season. At the half way point of season, if McGuire isnt producing and Kirk is, make the switch.

For all we know this season may be Jansen's breakout. He does seem poised to do so. If it happens there will be less at bats and opportunities for Kirk.

Would be counter productive to keep him with big club to start.
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Except that the AAA season is likely going to be delayed by about a month, so he probably won't get any actual at bats in April if he doesn't make the team, either.
 
Discoverer said:
Except that the AAA season is likely going to be delayed by about a month, so he probably won't get any actual at bats in April if he doesn't make the team, either.
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Thats ok. What better place to continue to better your skills and physical traits then the new Spring Training facility. Get him on a routine, shed some weight, add some muscle, continue to work on his flexibility, strengthen him as a player. All this talk about analytics and best in class training facilities. Put it to work on your top prospects. Strengthen and better them.
 
BlueForever75 said:
Thats ok. What better place to continue to better your skills and physical traits then the new Spring Training facility. Get him on a routine, shed some weight, add some muscle, continue to work on his flexibility, strengthen him as a player. All this talk about analytics and best in class training facilities. Put it to work on your top prospects. Strengthen and better them.
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kinda contradicting yourself there....saying he won't make the Jays opening roster because he needs at-bats/playing time, and then saying he should primarily focus on getting into shape and better his skills in a practice setting
 
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phillipmike said:
Play McGuire all Spring, hopefully he plays well and you can trade him. Jansen and Kirk break camp.

If you cant trade McGuire then you have him as your backup to start the season. McGuire will be on a short leash. If he doesnt play well he gets moved or goes on waivers to make room for Kirk.
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I feel like Mcguire's value has nowhere to go but down. His pre-2020 MLB performance very much seems like a mirage compared to what he was in the minors and how badly he struggled in 2020. He was never supposed to be a good hitter. So if that's the case then the more they play him now the more they risk exposing his previous performance as a fluke and his value goes down. Maybe as it stands they can just convince a team that he'll be find and last year was covid insanity and it'll all work out. Then sell him off and scream "no takebacks!" before the other team figures out he actually sucks.
 
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10 Draft Risers
Sal Frelick, OF, Boston College (No. 17)
.476/.531/.857, 4 HR, 4 2B, 5 BB, 5 K, 3-for-5 SB

While many of the college hitters currently ranked at the top of the first round have been middling or underwhelming through three weeks, Frelick has been terrific. He’s hitting the ball in the air more frequently than he did in 2019-20, which has helped him tally four homers in just 10 games—a significantly higher rate than previously in his career.
As a freshman and sophomore, Frelick homered six times in 54 games, or in 2.9% of his total at-bats. So far in 2021, Frelick is homering in 9.5% of his at-bats.

Last weekend Frelick added a pair of homers against Auburn righthander Richard Fitts (who has struggled over three starts) on elevated, low-90s fastballs before helping complete a huge comeback on Sunday with a two-out, three-run blast in the ninth inning to send the game to extras.

With the industry not hesitating to take sub-6 feet college bats in recent years (Nick Gonzales, Nick Madrigal, Kyler Murray, Keston Hiura as prominent examples) it’s hard to see Frelick’s size—he is listed at 5-foot-9, 175 pounds—limiting him with offensive production like this, especially when combined with a center field defensive profile.
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Henry Davis, C, Louisville (No. 19)

.395/.520/.684, 3 HR, 2 2B, 8 BB, 3 K, 5-for-5 SB

College catchers can easily move up draft boards with strong production, so it’ll be interesting to see what teams do with Davis, who entered the season as a first-round talent and has continued to impress with the bat.
Davis has collected hits in all 11 games so far this season, including four multi-hit games and he has great zone discipline. Like Frelick, Davis is getting the ball in the air more than he has in the past, but most of his extra-base hits have come against secondary stuff or lower-velocity fastballs. How he handles 90-plus velocity against ACC pitching will likely be something scouts bear down on the rest of the season.
Baserunners are 2-for-6 in stolen base attempts against Davis, with one of those stolen bases coming in a first-and-third, no-throw situation. His good throws to second have been in the 1.95-2.00-second pop-time range, and Davis has also aggressively hunted for backpicks at first and second base—keeping runners on their toes.
Davis’ preseason to-do list was built around proving his offensive game this season and he’s done just that.
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Jackson Jobe, RHP, Heritage Hall HS, Oklahoma City. (No. 30)

The early feedback from scouts who have seen Jobe this season is highly positive. With his performance and the struggles of Florida prep righthander Andrew Painter, it wouldn’t be surprising for Jobe to pitch his way to the top of the prep arms in the class. Currently he is the third-ranked prep pitcher.
This season Jobe is still handling shortstop while he’s not pitching and when he is on the bump has held mid-90s velocity deep into his starts. His slider—which was voted the best breaking ball in the class—is still there and getting 60- and 70-grade projections at its best, while Jobe has also shown a potential plus changeup with impressive action. Refining a changeup or curveball was one of Jobe’s to-do list items, and it sounds like he’s done that.
That’s three 60-grade pitches out of an athletic, and fairly easy delivery, which should make teams think carefully about whether or not they want to take the plunge and go after a prep righthander in the first round. Jobe could be a safer prep righty profile, given his lack of upper-90s velocity and outstanding feel for spin.
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Sam Bachman, RHP, Miami (Ohio) (No. 54)
2 G, 11 IP, 0.82 ERA, 16 K, 3 BB

We dug into Bachman’s most recent start in detail during last week’s stock watch, but the 6-foot-1, 235-pound righty didn’t pitch last weekend due to arm soreness. That is certainly not helping his stock, but what he’s shown in two starts is extremely loud.
His velocity is up considerably from what he showed in 2020, with a fastball that’s averaged around 96 mph and been up to 100 at its best and a slider in the mid-to-upper 80s now after being a low-80s pitch through four games in 2020. Some evaluators have given Bachman a pair of 70-grade offerings between the fastball and slider, and that pure stuff would put him solidly in the first round.
The health of his arm will be a large factor for him moving forward, and there is a bit of effort in his delivery that could concern teams. Still, if he returns to the mound and keeps doing what he did against Jacksonville (5 IP, 6 K) and Florida International (6 IP, 10 K) there’s no reason he shouldn’t fit in with the top college pitchers in the class.
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Joe Rock, LHP, Ohio (No. 87)
3 G, 18 IP, 1.00 ERA, 30 K, 6 BB

The walk total Rock has amassed through three starts is the big number.
After walking 5.6 batters per nine during his 2019 season with Ohio, Rock has improved that rate (3.0 BB/9) through his first three starts this season. Scouts believed he needed to show better strike-throwing ability this spring to shoot up draft boards and so far … he’s done just that.
Rock threw a seven-inning no-hitter against Morehead State during week two and is coming off a six-inning, 12-strikeout game against Wisconsin-Milwaukee in week three. Rock’s fastball has been up to 96 mph this spring, but averages 90-92 with sinking life out of a sidearm slot. His go-to secondary is a low-80s slider that has sweeping action and is a potential plus offering according to evaluators. Rock has also infrequently flashed a changeup that shows some solid fading life in the low 80s, but he’s largely been a fastball/slider pitcher to this point.
If he keeps up throwing strikes at a high rate, it wouldn’t be surprising to see Rock go off the board within the first two rounds.
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The Nemesis said:
I feel like Mcguire's value has nowhere to go but down. His pre-2020 MLB performance very much seems like a mirage compared to what he was in the minors and how badly he struggled in 2020. He was never supposed to be a good hitter. So if that's the case then the more they play him now the more they risk exposing his previous performance as a fluke and his value goes down. Maybe as it stands they can just convince a team that he'll be find and last year was covid insanity and it'll all work out. Then sell him off and scream "no takebacks!" before the other team figures out he actually sucks.
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Perhaps, but i view McGuire's value to Fisher's. A trade right now would involve cash considerations or future considerations and/or PTNL. With that said i dont see his value going down further and if it does, its already very low where you werent getting much to begin with.

The reality is, McGuire has shown he is a dime a dozen player/prospect with a weak bat and no options. His defense if the great but so is Tyler Flowers who is still a free agent and can be had for free. At the moment his value is that of a player who gets moved for close to nothing right before opening day. The biggest issue is the lack of options. That is just my two cents - though im sure others disagree.
 
phillipmike said:
Perhaps, but i view McGuire's value to Fisher's. A trade right now would involve cash considerations or future considerations and/or PTNL. With that said i dont see his value going down further and if it does, its already very low where you werent getting much to begin with.

The reality is, McGuire has shown he is a dime a dozen player/prospect with a weak bat and no options. His defense if the great but so is Tyler Flowers who is still a free agent and can be had for free. At the moment his value is that of a player who gets moved for close to nothing right before opening day. The biggest issue is the lack of options. That is just my two cents - though im sure others disagree.
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Looking at recent history suggests that Flowers is probably better than McGuire. So if he isn't getting taken for free, I don't think there's much hope for a guy who is a lesser alternative even if he's also like 9 years younger. Plus I also believe McGuire's value can go down from the Fisher tier of a warm body or some cash to "I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole" which could easily happen if he continues to prove that his MLB offensive outburst from 2018 and 2019 was a blip and not the norm.
 
Good first.

Gotta say, while it is spring training, Roark is throwing the ball where he wants it. Maybe the stop hurt him more than we thought.
 
Jays starters giving it to the Tigers today. Roark looked great in 3 innings of shutout ball. Starters Springer, Guerrero and Grichuk along with darkhorse Kirk hitting round trippers. Yates has pitched a scoreless inning while working some rust off.

Looking good today, with the exception of Gurriel and Jansen the lineup looked like an opening day one. With Kirk and Tellez in there instead.

Interesting batting lineup today:

Springer
Semien
Bichette
Hernandez
Tellez
Guerrero
Biggio
Grichuk
Kirk

Dont mind the top 4 but I think after that it makes no sense. Assuming Jansen and Gurriel will be in the everyday lineup I think it should be:

Springer
Semien
Bichette
Hernandez
Guerrero
Gurriel
Grichuk
Jansen
Biggio
 
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