Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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I'd argue so far this pre-season he's played defense on neither side
Nils Lundkvist vs Zac Jones
- Thread starter EdJovanovski
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I'd argue so far this pre-season he's played defense on neither side
pld459666
Registered User
Would it be such a bad thing that Lundkvist becomes the player we all hope he develops into and Zach Jones is still better?
I'm not rooting for one over the other. I want the best out of both and if they are both a shade below Fox, that's a good thing.
I'm not rooting for one over the other. I want the best out of both and if they are both a shade below Fox, that's a good thing.
Amazing Kreiderman
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How nice is it that we are talking about Lundkvist vs Jones, with Schneider and Robertson not far behind instead of years and years having to settle for Kostka, Woywitka, Bickel, Holden, Johnson, Hájek, Diaz, Hunwick, Gilroy and others?
I just don't understand how Miller is guaranteed a spot when he has been struggling since March. That's my only real issue with Gallant so far.
egelband
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- Sep 6, 2008
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Miller is a perplexing case. He has been pretty mediocre for quite a while. I guess there’s the upside gamble. But I don’t see why he’s immune to spending a month in the minors. Maybe there’s more to it, and he shines once the regular season begins. I hope so. But all things being equal I play Jones with Trouba and let Miller spread his wings in Hartford for a bit. Absolutely fine with the Nils-Nemeth third pairing.
Anyhow, so long as all the kids progress, I’m fine with it.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
I don't necessarily disagree.
I really think Gallant just doesn't know his players yet and is sticking with the lineup and combos the Rangers had last season. I think Miller will be given time to break out of whatever funk he is in, given he has already proven it at the NHL for many weeks. But if it continues 20-30 games I think we might see some movement there.
But yeah I was also thinking how great it is to have this problem on D. Its like going to a really good restaurant and wanting to order the entire menu opposed to not finding a single thing you like and having to settle for the grilled cheese on wheat off the kids menu.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Exactly. If this was a meritocracy, our D-pairings would look like this:
55-23
6-8
12-64
45
The only thing Miller has going for him is size and chemistry with Trouba - all of these young d’s have potential. Miller - Trouba on paper looks like a solid shutdown pair.
Does Gallant believe that Nemeth can play up the line up for Jones when the game is close? I think that’s the only thing stopping us from seeing Jones and Lundqvist make the team.
Haven’t seen enough of Nemeth to make that call.
I want the best overall combination that maximizes the overall opportunity.
KAM for a prospect C from LAK, esp if it is not upper level w/high prob of success, is not a smart move.
KAM + the right + for Sens Sanderson is the way to go dep on what that + is, and that upgrade would enable Lindy to stay at 1LD now and then shift to 4th line or sell high once Sanderson gets here [prob next yr].
That strategy would enable Jones to stay, just have to find a home and get something for Hajek.
Tinordi might get claimed but .... that is what it is.
Need to move on from Strome ... like yesterday. sell high
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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At the conclusion of camp, if there is no clear winner, Gallant will have the two of them play a game of rock, scissors, paper for the spot.
Amazing Kreiderman
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not first choice door #1, but let's not be closed minded either
no sacred cows
if we got higher rated Sanderson, who my understanding is he has not yet signed so his elc not yet on the clock and has commitment this season so you are getting better value and creating roster flexibility short term, that could make sense.
KAM ++ for Sandy +
on paper this could work
Sens would require profit but if it is assets we can spare, that can work, + they get KAM now while Sanderson is not playing NHL this yr
and as explained, works for us too
Amazing Kreiderman
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I really don't see why OTT would do that but okay.
I think the trade we could all see coming is a D-man to LAK for a center. Whether that's Miller, Lundkvist, Jones, Schneider, Reunanen or Robertson... Who knows. Some of these names will not even be on the table. But yeah, they have a bunch of young centers that would be a good fit here. Thomas, Anderson-Dolan, Madden, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari... Definitely a lot of possible scenarios here for either team.
While we're generalizing people's takes, I feel people are comparing Nils too much to preseason hype and to other prospects rather than observing him as he is and for what he's doing. I don't have any problem saying Jones has played better than Nils, but I think Nils and Jones are really different players as well and offer very different things to the team at this moment.
Jones has excelled and I'm very exited to see him resemble Fox so closely. He looks like a GEM. At the same time, I've seen him struggle to contain players in the d-zone this preseason and sometimes his anticipation of where the play is going ends up with him in a tough spot when something falls through. Schneider as well had some notable gaffes with the puck on his stick and has some clear limitations right now from a puck movement perspective.
Nils OTOH has showed a knack for sticking to his coverage and closing gaps really well. He also looks adept at leveraging himself in tight and getting under forecheckers and net front forwards to cancel plays or escape pressure. He's also put up points which I don't think should be shrugged off. Even if Jones has been more noticeably good, there's something to be said for a defenseman you don't notice--especially when they end up on the right side of the scorecard, which Nils has done each game.
An NHL coach might be inclined to prefer that player at the start, and I won't be angry or find it unreasonable if that's how it shakes out. Based on what I've seen, I'd like both on the team, but I think Nils would be my pick too based on what I've seen. Not because I've ever been that high on Nils (got lambasted months ago for proposing to trade him for Larkin), but because I think he's played well--even while I think Jones has played better.
Jones has excelled and I'm very exited to see him resemble Fox so closely. He looks like a GEM. At the same time, I've seen him struggle to contain players in the d-zone this preseason and sometimes his anticipation of where the play is going ends up with him in a tough spot when something falls through. Schneider as well had some notable gaffes with the puck on his stick and has some clear limitations right now from a puck movement perspective.
Nils OTOH has showed a knack for sticking to his coverage and closing gaps really well. He also looks adept at leveraging himself in tight and getting under forecheckers and net front forwards to cancel plays or escape pressure. He's also put up points which I don't think should be shrugged off. Even if Jones has been more noticeably good, there's something to be said for a defenseman you don't notice--especially when they end up on the right side of the scorecard, which Nils has done each game.
An NHL coach might be inclined to prefer that player at the start, and I won't be angry or find it unreasonable if that's how it shakes out. Based on what I've seen, I'd like both on the team, but I think Nils would be my pick too based on what I've seen. Not because I've ever been that high on Nils (got lambasted months ago for proposing to trade him for Larkin), but because I think he's played well--even while I think Jones has played better.
100% agree with the bolded.
I don't really think this team is hurting for a high volume shooter from the back end. It's a nice to have more so than a necessity.
They do how ever, need someone who can push pucks out of their own end and spearhead transition. Jones has been way better here. It's actually the part of Nils game that has arguably bothered me the most. He rarely makes a clean pass out of his own end under even the slightest bit of pressure and has resorted to trying to bull rush his way through opponents before inevitably either turning it over or just chipping it out. His reads here are not fast enough, and he lacks the shiftiness to buy himself a bit more time and space to assess his options.
Also disagree that his gaps have been good. He's struggled against the rush and his straight line foot speed worries me too. I knew that it wouldn't play as well on the smaller ice surface, but hes looked slower than expected.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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Looks like Jones is ahead now!
But, for real, Jones looks like the more polished player right now, in my view. He's very Fox-like with his reads and with the outlet, headman, and breakout passes. He just kind glides and slings the puck forward almost effortlessly.
Well, agree to disagree. The last part there speaks a bit to each of our expectations at play in our evaluations because he's been a lot quicker than I thought, and certainly stronger. My point of view on a lot of Nils struggles on the breakout are that they've stemmed from issues of chemistry and familiarity than from skillset. I've seen him make good passes that get botched or bad passes that could've been good if the receiver was able to anticipate it better, or if Nils had a more instinctual sense of where they were moving. I've seen him get himself open for passes that either don't come or come off the stick of Jared Tinordi too. OTOH, I think Jones and Schneider have done more to exceed expectations and have made more glaring--and costly--mistakes than Lundkvist this preseason which colors how their respective play gets evaluated overall.
I'll just keep beating my same drum that Jones has been really good and is really exciting, and that just because he's been better than Lundkvist doesn't mean that Lundkvist has been bad. Not that you're saying it either--I think we're just on two sides of a fence, and that's fine. Nils has done nothing but impress me as someone who felt pretty lukewarm about him. Jones has impressed the crap out of me fwiw.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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Everyone falls enamored wtih raw talent. And all coaches have some form of self-ego who thinks he's the one who can sculpt that raw talent in his own image. Gallant went so much as to anoint him the Total Package Lex Luger.
Raw talent is an interesting phrase.
In this case it seems to have nothing to with hockey ability and seems solely based on his being a large, young man.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
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. . . years ago watching Miller in Stamford. There was as much awe about him as there was for Krav although i felt Fox, Barron and Jones looked the best with Nils a younger version of Fox. I thought Miller skated well straight ahead yet wasn’t wowed or anything while Krav looked very young.
my two cents of observation . . . seems not much has changed besides some age
my two cents of observation . . . seems not much has changed besides some age
dshea19
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- Jun 9, 2015
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Personally, and I know they won't do it, I would send Miller down and play Nils and Jones. Both have seemed better defensively. My initial big concern was if Miller would be a big guy that was soft. However, to his credit, he has showed some snarl recently, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I still think he would benefit from time in the AHL. His defensive game seems to have regressed since the first half of last season. Ultimately, I don't know if there is a clear answer and it is a nice problem to have.
Who can skate and stickhandle.
It has everything to do with the fundamental tools of playing a defenseman are there, the things he needs to work on is positioning, and adding some edge to his game.
I get that people are on the "shit on miller train" but just saying he's big is really underselling it.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
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idk, here is a kid who is a good athlete and was a forward . . . but that wasn’t the best fit so he tried defense . . . and was said to “still be learning” . . . then he was kinda disinterested in college and suspended . . . whatever . . . and then he leaves college early. Now he’s here. He looked lost last season despite the camp hype. Does he look at better? A few months in the minors?
Idk about this kid. A rush to the Pros without every figuring out any position?
A Billie Bean of hockey?
