Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[The Macho King]

i thought ovechkin did it but he was short one point in 05-06. bure did it in 2000-01. who's the other?

Not Jagr on one of those dog shit Pens teams?

 

[ricky0034]

Btw, I can get behind your assessment of taking Mackinnon over Kucherov. I'd probably do the same but the attitude thing is just a salty narrative that you hear from whiny fans. He is also an emotional guy who doesnt hide how he feels. He made fun of SOME Montréal fans after their game 4 win and the entire fan base took it to heart. Remember they burned/flipped police cars during that run. I'd have made fun of them too. Act like you have been here before Montréal.

and MacKinnon has had some teammate incidents which for me is much worse than just being a bit of an ass in the media

 

[BoltSTH]

It always amazes me that Kucherov was passed over in the draft by every GM once, and all but 2 twice. Bolts picked him with the penultimate pick of the 2nd round.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Kucherov is on track to lead the Bolts in scoring by around 52 points. That would be historic. Only eight players in NHL history have ever led their team in scoring by a 50+ point margin. It's only happened twice in the past 30 years (take a guess as to who).

Fun fact - Gretzky led his team in by 50+ points eight times. Every other player in all of NHL history combined did that nine times in total.

For those who are curious here are the list of players who have led their team by a 50+ gap.

1. Pavel Bure: In 2000-01, Pavel Bure had 92 points, second was Viktor Kozlov with only 37 points. Point Gap: 55 points
2. Paul Kariya: In 1995-96 Paul Kariya had 108 points, the second highest was Steve Rucchin with only 44 points. Point Gap: 64 points
3. Doug Gilmour: In 1992-92, Doug Gilmour had 127 points, second place was Nick Borshevsky with only 73. Point Gap: 54 Points
4. Steve Yzerman: In 1989 he had 155 points, while Gerard Gallant had 93 points. Point Gap: 62 Points
5. Joe Sakic: 1990-91 he has 109 points meanwhile Mats Sundin only had 59. Point Gap: 50 Points
6. Mario Lemieux: 1985-86, 1987-88, 1988-89
7. Wayne Gretzky: 1979-80, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1984-85, 1985-86, 1986-87, 1988-89

Who am I missing?

Just missed - Dennis Maruk 49 points over Ryan Walter, Alex Ovechkin 49 over Danius Zubrus and Kent Nilsson 48 points over Guy Chouinard.

---------------

Biggest gaps post lockout:

1. Alex Ovechkin - 49 points in 2005-06
2. David Pastrnak - 46 points in 2022-23
3. Sidney Crosby - 44 points In 2005-06
4. Taylor Hall - 41 points in 2017-18
5. Nikita Kucherov - 40 points in 2023-24
6. Sidney Crosby - 35 points in 2006-07 + John Tavares 35 points in 2014-15
7. ^
8. Erik Karlsson - 34 points in 2022-23
9. Joe Thornton - 32 points in 2005-06
10. Matthew Tkachuk - 31 points in 2022-23, Jason Robertson - 31 points in 2022-23, Anze Kopitar - 31 Points in 2017-18

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Matthews has a better 200 foot game then McDavid. As was pointed out to you by another poster with video evidence and stats to back it up.

I don't know what more to tell you except to say you are wrong. You are parroting the idiotic talking point that Matthews is just a goal scorer, which is laughable.

Matthews is averaging 48 seconds of ice time on the penalty kill this season, which is good for 11th on his team.

Both McDavid and Matthews have made strides in their 200ft game, but neither of them are going to be nominated for a selke anytime soon, and I wish we could stop bringing up defensive impact when neither of them really impact the game at a high level defensively.

 

[bobholly39]

Back on a 140 point pace for Kucherov after a 4 point game.

Update after today's games among leaders is:

Kucherov - pace of 140 points and 52 goals in 81 games
MacKinnon - pace of 133 points and 47 goals in 82 games
McDavid - pace of 134 points and 103 assists in 80 games
Matthews - pace of 111 points and 75 goals over 81 games.

 

[Drytoast]

Matthews is averaging 48 seconds of ice time on the penalty kill this season, which is good for 11th on his team.

Both McDavid and Matthews have made strides in their 200ft game, but neither of them are going to be nominated for a selke anytime soon, and I wish we could stop bringing up defensive impact when neither of them really impact the game at a high level defensively.

Pretty sure Matthews is first in creating turnover or something stupid.

 

[Regal]

Matthews is averaging 48 seconds of ice time on the penalty kill this season, which is good for 11th on his team.

Both McDavid and Matthews have made strides in their 200ft game, but neither of them are going to be nominated for a selke anytime soon, and I wish we could stop bringing up defensive impact when neither of them really impact the game at a high level defensively.

PK time doesn’t equal defense. Though both have had strong defensive impacts 5v5 this year

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

PK time doesn’t equal defense. Though both have had strong defensive impacts 5v5 this year

It’s a fantastic indicator of your defensive ability, and if Matthews or McDavid actually impacted the game at a high level defensively, they would see minutes similar to previous elite players that were known for their defensive game like Bergeron and Kopitar.

Neither impact the game at a high level defensively. Luckily they hustle back, know who their guy is, and aren’t a liability out there. Thats all you can really want or ask for from the top offensive juggernauts in the game.

Pretty sure Matthews is first in creating turnover or something stupid.

Yeah he is highly effective in the neutral zone

 

[authentic]

Matthews is averaging 48 seconds of ice time on the penalty kill this season, which is good for 11th on his team.

Both McDavid and Matthews have made strides in their 200ft game, but neither of them are going to be nominated for a selke anytime soon, and I wish we could stop bringing up defensive impact when neither of them really impact the game at a high level defensively.

Man it’s strange to think that if Matthews just abandoned his two-way game entirely over half this board would still hold the exact same opinion of him. People really don’t realize that not only is his defensive play a huge part of his overall game, but he’s not just simply a very responsible player who’s works hard defensively… his actual skill level and IQ away from the puck are elite. His separates players from the puck with ease, has near perfect positioning in all zones, he’s one of the best at stealing the puck with stick lifts, he blocks a ton of shots, he leads all forwards on his team in PPGA/60 in his first season killing penalties on a regular basis, and he’s always helping out down below his own goal line to gain control of the puck and get transition going, then to top it off he also plays a very methodical game that doesn’t allow for a lot of giveaways and he also is rarely penalized. Like what else would an offensive superstar really have to do before you could say he’s much above average defensively?

 

[kugelbahn]

I’ve seen quite a few of these posts that seem more fatigued by the idea of him catching up than the player out there performing the feat. It’s the opposite of what you think: he’s more likely now to do it than he was 2-3 months ago.

I warned others of a very simple illusion months ago. It will appear that McDavid stole the Art Ross during the final weeks of the season because that’s how long it would likely take him to catch up due to his slow start combined with having 4-6 games in hand on Kucherov and MacKinnon for virtually the entire season.

Circle your calendars for the final two weeks. By the end of March 28, the Oilers will have played 71 games, the Lightning 72, and the Avs 73.

The Oilers go back to 2 games in hand on the Lightning as late as April 9 and never equal them in games played until the final day of the regular season.

The Oilers also go back to 2 games in hand on the Avs as late as April 14 and then play 2 games in 3 days to back up before they both play on the final day, April 18.

I’ve done my best to make sure people were aware of the games played disparity that McDavid never gets a chance to make up until the final weeks of the season, but people still seem perplexed why it has been a season long catch up.

Kuch and McD are in exactly same place as on Jan 1:
Kuch is 13 points clear with 5 games less to play.
I agree that final week will decide. And specifically Avs-Oil on April 18 (with Kuch's season over). But Avs/Oil might be resting stars with clinch...

"The lead continues to get chipped away" - not yet

 

[MadLuke]

It’s a fantastic indicator of your defensive ability,

Impact quite a bit coaching deployment decision, how much better you are then other at 5v5-PP and the rest of the teams options.

Forsberg stopped to play on the pk in 2002-2003, did he got worst defensively than younger Forsberg, maybe or they got Mike Keane and way more dependant of what Forsberg was doing the rest of the time that resting him was a good coaching decision ?

Mike Modano PK ice time jumped the season Guy Carbonneau retired, I doubt it was because he became better defensively.

Not a bad proxy, but I am not sure about fantastic for a forward for who the 5v5 minute are precious, you only use them if you do not have a similarly or close enough option for who the minutes are less costly or if you like the offensive edge they add to the pp.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Lol Bure was ridiculous that year. Kozlov wasn't even .5 ppg

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

N just like that back to a 13 point lead. Same area it's been for months. Mcdavid fans need to calm down. Kucherov with 7 points in 2 games... mcdavjd isn't the only one who can get hot..

 

[Senor Catface]

N just like that back to a 13 point lead. Same area it's been for months. Mcdavid fans need to calm down. Kucherov with 7 points in 2 games... mcdavjd isn't the only one who can get hot..

Instead of looking at this with such a narrow viewpoint, you should just more fun with three great offensive players all fighting for the same Art Ross, instead of just moaning about one player.

It's more fun, trust me.

 

[Three On Zero]

N just like that back to a 13 point lead. Same area it's been for months. Mcdavid fans need to calm down. Kucherov with 7 points in 2 games... mcdavjd isn't the only one who can get hot..

He has done alright to get back into a runner up spot, but I don’t think he’s really a threat to overtake Kuch. Lots of hockey left though

 

[Hockey Outsider]

i thought ovechkin did it but he was short one point in 05-06. bure did it in 2000-01. who's the other?

The only other player to lead his team in scoring by 50+ points over the past three decades was Paul Kariya in 1996. (He had 108 points, and Steve Rucchin had 44). He only finished 9th place for the Hart trophy (presumably he was penalized because the Ducks didn't make the playoffs).

For those who are curious here are the list of players who have led their team by a 50+ gap.

1. Pavel Bure: In 2000-01, Pavel Bure had 92 points, second was Viktor Kozlov with only 37 points. Point Gap: 55 points
2. Paul Kariya: In 1995-96 Paul Kariya had 108 points, the second highest was Steve Rucchin with only 44 points. Point Gap: 64 points
3. Doug Gilmour: In 1992-92, Doug Gilmour had 127 points, second place was Nick Borshevsky with only 73. Point Gap: 54 Points
4. Steve Yzerman: In 1989 he had 155 points, while Gerard Gallant had 93 points. Point Gap: 62 Points
5. Joe Sakic: 1990-91 he has 109 points meanwhile Mats Sundin only had 59. Point Gap: 50 Points
6. Mario Lemieux: 1985-86, 1987-88, 1988-89
7. Wayne Gretzky: 1979-80, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1984-85, 1985-86, 1986-87, 1988-89

Who am I missing?

You're only missing one: in 1979, Guy Lafleur led Montreal by 52 points (he scored 129 points, and Steve Shutt scored 77 points).

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Kuch and McD are in exactly same place as on Jan 1:
Kuch is 13 points clear with 5 games less to play.
I agree that final week will decide. And specifically Avs-Oil on April 18 (with Kuch's season over). But Avs/Oil might be resting stars with clinch...

"The lead continues to get chipped away" - not yet

Zero chance McDavid would rest even if 2nd in scoring was on the line, But MacKinnon is type that would care less and rest for the playoffs

 

[solidmotion]

For those who are curious here are the list of players who have led their team by a 50+ gap.

1. Pavel Bure: In 2000-01, Pavel Bure had 92 points, second was Viktor Kozlov with only 37 points. Point Gap: 55 points
2. Paul Kariya: In 1995-96 Paul Kariya had 108 points, the second highest was Steve Rucchin with only 44 points. Point Gap: 64 points
3. Doug Gilmour: In 1992-92, Doug Gilmour had 127 points, second place was Nick Borshevsky with only 73. Point Gap: 54 Points
4. Steve Yzerman: In 1989 he had 155 points, while Gerard Gallant had 93 points. Point Gap: 62 Points
5. Joe Sakic: 1990-91 he has 109 points meanwhile Mats Sundin only had 59. Point Gap: 50 Points
6. Mario Lemieux: 1985-86, 1987-88, 1988-89
7. Wayne Gretzky: 1979-80, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1984-85, 1985-86, 1986-87, 1988-89

Who am I missing?

Just missed - Dennis Maruk 49 points over Ryan Walter, Alex Ovechkin 49 over Danius Zubrus and Kent Nilsson 48 points over Guy Chouinard.

---------------

Biggest gaps post lockout:

1. Alex Ovechkin - 49 points in 2005-06
2. David Pastrnak - 46 points in 2022-23
3. Sidney Crosby - 44 points In 2005-06
4. Taylor Hall - 41 points in 2017-18
5. Nikita Kucherov - 40 points in 2023-24
6. Sidney Crosby - 35 points in 2006-07 + John Tavares 35 points in 2014-15
7. ^
8. Erik Karlsson - 34 points in 2022-23
9. Joe Thornton - 32 points in 2005-06
10. Matthew Tkachuk - 31 points in 2022-23, Jason Robertson - 31 points in 2022-23, Anze Kopitar - 31 Points in 2017-18

crazy that halfway through 2010-11 crosby was leading the penguins by 30 points, almost enough to show up on this list. he ended the season with 66 points, pacing for ~130; second place letang ended with 50.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Man it’s strange to think that if Matthews just abandoned his two-way game entirely over half this board would still hold the exact same opinion of him. People really don’t realize that not only is his defensive play a huge part of his overall game, but he’s not just simply a very responsible player who’s works hard defensively… his actual skill level and IQ away from the puck are elite. His separates players from the puck with ease, has near perfect positioning in all zones, he’s one of the best at stealing the puck with stick lifts, he blocks a ton of shots, he leads all forwards on his team in PPGA/60 in his first season killing penalties on a regular basis, and he’s always helping out down below his own goal line to gain control of the puck and get transition going, then to top it off he also plays a very methodical game that doesn’t allow for a lot of giveaways and he also is rarely penalized. Like what else would an offensive superstar really have to do before you could say he’s much above average defensively?

He would have to do all of those things on a more consistent basis, and do it more often in the highest stakes situations.

Matthews isn’t going to be a guy the coach is going to lean on in a crucial penalty kill in an important close game, as evidenced by his 11th ranked usage on the team in those situations.

Datsyuk finished 4th in scoring, with more takeaways than Matthews, similar giveaways, but more than double the time spent short handed and in high stakes defensive situations. Still wasn’t even close to being the best or most reliable defensive weapon on his team, but his impact on the defensive part of the game was enough to warrant discussion as a separator to Crosby at the time.

 

[PaulD]

It always amazes me that Kucherov was passed over in the draft by every GM once, and all but 2 twice. Bolts picked him with the penultimate pick of the 2nd round.

Amazing eh. But the Bolts passed him over earlier too.
It happens.

Karlsson
Lidstrom
Zetterberg
Bergeron
Marchand
Robitaille
Bossy and Sakik went late first round too I believe.

 

[nowhereman]

crazy that halfway through 2010-11 crosby was leading the penguins by 30 points, almost enough to show up on this list. he ended the season with 66 points, pacing for ~130; second place letang ended with 50.

Looking back, it was wild that the guy lead his team in scoring by a 25% margin and only played half the season.

Back to Kucherov, you'd have to think he's a shoe-in for the Hart if Tampa secures a playoff spot. He's been on an island this season and has been putting up almost 2 points per game against elite competition, rather than piling up points against bottom-dwellers.

 

[Voight]

Weird how @Nathaniel isn’t hopping in the second a game is over with the point lead update.

Whats funny at the same age Crosby lost the scoring race to Jamie Benn.

McDavid may lose it to Kucherov and MackInnon, who are surefire all of famers.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Can someone explain to me how the Art Ross thread became a discussion on Matthews defensive game?

 

[Dust]

Can someone explain to me how the Art Ross thread became a discussion on Matthews defensive game?

His name shouldn't have been brought up at all, this isn't a Rocket or Hart discussion, there's only 3 guys realistically in the Art Ross race right now.