Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[Video Nasty]

9th in points at 27? For supposedly the second best player ever? Not looking good.

But I have a theory. What if mcdavid is just like Lafleur? Without the cups though? Lafleur had that 6-7 year dominant stretch and then that's it. Maybe this is the beginning of that?

Let the dust settle on this season before we draw conclusions.

Is anyone really going to be upset if he finishes 3rd in the scoring race, but lifts the Cup and Conn Smythe two months later?

 

[crowfish]

9th in points at 27? For supposedly the second best player ever? Not looking good.

But I have a theory. What if mcdavid is just like Lafleur? Without the cups though? Lafleur had that 6-7 year dominant stretch and then that's it. Maybe this is the beginning of that?

I have a theory that McDavid lives rent-free in your head

 

[WalterLundy]

Pretty sure the Oilers fans are ecstatic their team keeps on winning when McDavid doesn’t have to score all of their points

If you take out that career low 16 points in 16 games to start the season and go from when he made a full recovery from his injury the oilers are 22-3 and McDavid has 44 points in those 25 games. A 1.76 PPG or 144 per 82 pace is almost identical to what his 2020-21 to 2022-23 stretch was (381 in 218 or 1.75 PPG). He’s operating at his peak level since the recovery. Everyone knows he’s still the best player in the world despite two career years at the top of the scoring race currently. Also seeing the burden being lifted off of him is good to see even from a non oiler fan as that’s exhausting. I’m not counting 97 out but good on Kucherov and MacKinnon for very fun performances to witness this year.



I’d be interested to see how many years from 2006 onward the winner of this years Ross race would have won if they were playing in any given year once this one wraps up.

 

[Rschmitz]

Someone new to hockey and reading the last few pages of this thread would be forgiven if they concluded that players who score fewer points is the way to help their team win the most.

 

[blundluntman]

Every time Mackinnon catches him, he just runs away again with another 4 point night. He's been unbelievable this season. I'm hoping Mackinnon wins but if not, hats off to Kuch.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Let the dust settle on this season before we draw conclusions.

Is anyone really going to be upset if he finishes 3rd in the scoring race, but lifts the Cup and Conn Smythe two months later?

No. But funny enough crosby did just that in 15-16 and you use it against him because he didn't win the ross. Can't have it both ways

 

[WalterLundy]

Let him have his fun. It’s been years since Crosby thrilled him.

It’s been quite a bit for me as well. I will say that Crosby’s year has impressed me this year for his goal scoring. Without him this year I don’t even want to imagine what we’d look like. With that said it’s been about 10 years since I’ve been thrilled by individual level displayed.

The 14-15 and 15-16 Ross races are one thing we can just talk about in a broad sense but when you dig deeper what you find is appalling.

This will start halfway through 14-15 and end halfway through 15-16. From January 18 2015 to January 21 2016 Sidney Crosby had only 73 points in 82 consecutive NHL regular season games. He started this at age 27 (McDavid’s age) and ended at 28. There were 10 players during this span that finished with more points. There were 14 players that had a higher ppg average with at least 50 games played during this. Kane at 1.33 and Benn at 1.24 with Crosby at 0.89. That shouldn’t be for a prime Sidney Crosby.

Some of these players he finished behind in ppg include Pavel Datsyuk, Vladimir Tarasenko, Taylor Hall, Joe Pavelski, John Tavares, Nicklas Backstrom, Johnny Gaudreau and Tyler Seguin. Even if you take both years in their entirety he is clearly bested by an inferior player in Patrick Kane for ppg and can’t create any separation from Benn and Tyler Seguin. And that’s with adding the “good” halves of those seasons for him.

This is what I would personally consider a truly rotten performance from a generational talent. I say that with ZERO pleasure and just pure objectivity as one that was also there for it all. I remember my kids at the time being baffled by how he wasn’t winning over Kane and Benn. None of that mattered when we won in 16 that summer. There was redemption of sorts.

All of this to say that McDavid hasn’t even remotely reached these depths and yet there is still a chance to win this year while still playing at his peak level when context is applied.

 

[Video Nasty]

No. But funny enough crosby did just that in 15-16 and you use it against him because he didn't win the ross. Can't have it both ways

There’s some truth to that, though let’s consider the context.

It didn’t happen first in 2014-2015, the season after what has been labeled an all-time great Art Ross win and after listening to a few years of what ifs. No Cup, just personal decline.

I don’t think you realize this, but I wasn’t laughing it up in 2015 when Crosby lost the scoring race. I was genuinely disappointed and in retrospect, it only grew when he didn’t win it ever again before even exiting his 20s. Most of my arguments against Crosby really revolve around the fervor of his most die-hards (cough).

Doesn’t mean I’ll be weeping when he retires though. I was never that far gone.

 

[Video Nasty]

This will start halfway through 14-15 and end halfway through 15-16. From January 18 2015 to January 21 2016 Sidney Crosby had only 73 points in 82 consecutive NHL regular season games. He started this at age 27 (McDavid’s age) and ended at 28. There were 10 players during this span that finished with more points. There were 14 players that had a higher ppg average with at least 50 games played during this. Kane at 1.33 and Benn at 1.24 with Crosby at 0.89. That shouldn’t be for a prime Sidney Crosby.

Some of these players he finished behind in ppg include Pavel Datsyuk, Vladimir Tarasenko, Taylor Hall, Joe Pavelski, John Tavares, Nicklas Backstrom, Johnny Gaudreau and Tyler Seguin. Even if you take both years in their entirety he is clearly bested by an inferior player in Patrick Kane for ppg and can’t create any separation from Benn and Tyler Seguin. And that’s with adding the “good” halves of those seasons for him.

This is what I would personally consider a truly rotten performance from a generational talent. I say that with ZERO pleasure and just pure objectivity as one that was also there for it all. I remember my kids at the time being baffled by how he wasn’t winning over Kane and Benn.

As someone who watched him game in and game out (or as close to that as can be reasonably expected), do you think there’s any tangible reason for such a noticeable decline after just a few months into 2014-2015?

 

[wetcoast]

But he's not a couple points back. He's what 9th in scoring?

Sure he missed a couple of games and Edmonton has 3-5 more than TB the rest of the way and if it's close Connor can go all Jamie Benn at the end too.

 

[daver]

It’s been quite a bit for me as well. I will say that Crosby’s year has impressed me this year for his goal scoring. Without him this year I don’t even want to imagine what we’d look like. With that said it’s been about 10 years since I’ve been thrilled by individual level displayed.

The 14-15 and 15-16 Ross races are one thing we can just talk about in a broad sense but when you dig deeper what you find is appalling.

This will start halfway through 14-15 and end halfway through 15-16. From January 18 2015 to January 21 2016 Sidney Crosby had only 73 points in 82 consecutive NHL regular season games. He started this at age 27 (McDavid’s age) and ended at 28. There were 10 players during this span that finished with more points. There were 14 players that had a higher ppg average with at least 50 games played during this. Kane at 1.33 and Benn at 1.24 with Crosby at 0.89. That shouldn’t be for a prime Sidney Crosby.

Some of these players he finished behind in ppg include Pavel Datsyuk, Vladimir Tarasenko, Taylor Hall, Joe Pavelski, John Tavares, Nicklas Backstrom, Johnny Gaudreau and Tyler Seguin. Even if you take both years in their entirety he is clearly bested by an inferior player in Patrick Kane for ppg and can’t create any separation from Benn and Tyler Seguin. And that’s with adding the “good” halves of those seasons for him.

This is what I would personally consider a truly rotten performance from a generational talent. I say that with ZERO pleasure and just pure objectivity as one that was also there for it all. I remember my kids at the time being baffled by how he wasn’t winning over Kane and Benn. None of that mattered when we won in 16 that summer. There was redemption of sorts.

All of this to say that McDavid hasn’t even remotely reached these depths and yet there is still a chance to win this year while still playing at his peak level when context is applied.

He was dealing with the mumps in 14/15 after starting the year the way he ended the previous one; clearly ahead of the rest of the league.

That, and a coaching change who brought in a very defensive system, seemingly affected his point totals as he then returned to "Best Player in the World" form for the next season and half.

If McDavid loses the Ross this year, I am sure many will write off his loss on his injury early in the season.

But it is interesting to see the Oil doing so well as McDavid seemingly has taken on more of a two way role during their winning streak.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

It’s been quite a bit for me as well. I will say that Crosby’s year has impressed me this year for his goal scoring. Without him this year I don’t even want to imagine what we’d look like. With that said it’s been about 10 years since I’ve been thrilled by individual level displayed.

The 14-15 and 15-16 Ross races are one thing we can just talk about in a broad sense but when you dig deeper what you find is appalling.

This will start halfway through 14-15 and end halfway through 15-16. From January 18 2015 to January 21 2016 Sidney Crosby had only 73 points in 82 consecutive NHL regular season games. He started this at age 27 (McDavid’s age) and ended at 28. There were 10 players during this span that finished with more points. There were 14 players that had a higher ppg average with at least 50 games played during this. Kane at 1.33 and Benn at 1.24 with Crosby at 0.89. That shouldn’t be for a prime Sidney Crosby.

Some of these players he finished behind in ppg include Pavel Datsyuk, Vladimir Tarasenko, Taylor Hall, Joe Pavelski, John Tavares, Nicklas Backstrom, Johnny Gaudreau and Tyler Seguin. Even if you take both years in their entirety he is clearly bested by an inferior player in Patrick Kane for ppg and can’t create any separation from Benn and Tyler Seguin. And that’s with adding the “good” halves of those seasons for him.

This is what I would personally consider a truly rotten performance from a generational talent. I say that with ZERO pleasure and just pure objectivity as one that was also there for it all. I remember my kids at the time being baffled by how he wasn’t winning over Kane and Benn. None of that mattered when we won in 16 that summer. There was redemption of sorts.

All of this to say that McDavid hasn’t even remotely reached these depths and yet there is still a chance to win this year while still playing at his peak level when context is applied.

Finished third in scoring both seasons. Nothing else to see there

 

[WalterLundy]

As someone who watched him game in and game out (or as close to that as can be reasonably expected), do you think there’s any tangible reason for such a noticeable decline after just a few months into 2014-2015?

Honestly no. I wish I had an answer like I did for the Lemieux 95-96 question (I believe you’ll remember) from a while back where a 200 pace became a 148 pace halfway through the season and stayed that way for the first half of 1996-97 with Jagr and Francis dropping proportionately. That had everything to do with the league scoring going from 80s levels among the elite to 1996-97 levels pretty abruptly showing that Lemieux was a near match of his 96 self in 97 but the league had changed and no more powerplay madness.


This one doesn’t have an explanation that I personally have ready. Plus the start of 15-16 is a continuation of this which is why I lumped both together. The start of 2015-16 sees Crosby with 31 points in the first 40 games. I apologize but I don’t have an answer for this one and I wish I did.

 

[WalterLundy]

He was dealing with the mumps in 14/15 after starting the year the way he ended the previous one; clearly ahead of the rest of the league.

That, and a coaching change who brought in a very defensive system, seemingly affected his point totals as he then returned to "Best Player in the World" form for the next season and half.

If McDavid loses the Ross this year, I am sure many will write off his loss on his injury early in the season.

But it is interesting to see the Oil doing so well as McDavid seemingly has taken on more of a two way role during their winning streak.

You’re right I completely forgot about the mumps thank you. Sid did have a strong finish to the 15-16 season when you consider the scoring at the time in the league.

 

[WalterLundy]

Finished third in scoring both seasons. Nothing else to see there

I was certainly happy with how 16 and 17 ended. All I was highlighting is that Crosby in 14-15 and 15-16 had relatively disappointing showings by his standards that’s all. No shame in that and it happens to the best of them.

 

[WingsFan95]

Every time Mackinnon catches him, he just runs away again with another 4 point night. He's been unbelievable this season. I'm hoping Mackinnon wins but if not, hats off to Kuch.

Yeah this. But there are enough games I wouldn't be stunned if McDavid pulled off a late upset. His scoring has been pretty top class last 20 or so games so yeah. Kucherov just needs one 8-10 game dry streak.

 

[Satire]

He was dealing with the mumps in 14/15 after starting the year the way he ended the previous one; clearly ahead of the rest of the league.

That, and a coaching change who brought in a very defensive system, seemingly affected his point totals as he then returned to "Best Player in the World" form for the next season and half.

If McDavid loses the Ross this year, I am sure many will write off his loss on his injury early in the season.

But it is interesting to see the Oil doing so well as McDavid seemingly has taken on more of a two way role during their winning streak.

This is how a lot of fans see it. McDavid is generally looking good every night, but the points aren't coming like they have been the last 3+ seasons. The team is doing a much better job recently of buying into a defensive structure too. The wins coming without McDavid scoring at a 2 ppg pace is welcome.

That being said in ppg he's still 3rd and I wouldn't write him off just yet, but I do think it's by no means a hot take to think that Kuch and MacKinnon are the most likely to take it. They have both been having unreal seasons.

 

[Offtheboard412]

Honestly no. I wish I had an answer like I did for the Lemieux 95-96 question (I believe you’ll remember) from a while back where a 200 pace became a 148 pace halfway through the season and stayed that way for the first half of 1996-97 with Jagr and Francis dropping proportionately. That had everything to do with the league scoring going from 80s levels among the elite to 1996-97 levels pretty abruptly showing that Lemieux was a near match of his 96 self in 97 but the league had changed and no more powerplay madness.


This one doesn’t have an explanation that I personally have ready. Plus the start of 15-16 is a continuation of this which is why I lumped both together. The start of 2015-16 sees Crosby with 31 points in the first 40 games. I apologize but I don’t have an answer for this one and I wish I did.

Well Johnston's system did have just about every player on the team see their numbers drop. But there was more to it than that. Crosby looked like he suddenly lost his confidence, didn't seem to want to hang on to the puck and try to create at all. He just seemed very passive.

 

[wetcoast]

I have a theory that McDavid lives rent-free in your head

It's not a theory.

 

[WarriorofTime]

This Kucherov thread is about a whole lot of things other than Kucherov. Being on my phone I had to make sure I didn’t accidentally click a different thread.

 

[J T Money]

Someone new to hockey and reading the last few pages of this thread would be forgiven if they concluded that players who score fewer points is the way to help their team win the most.

It worked for Kucherov is 2021…0 points and won the Cup

 

[authentic]

It’s been quite a bit for me as well. I will say that Crosby’s year has impressed me this year for his goal scoring. Without him this year I don’t even want to imagine what we’d look like. With that said it’s been about 10 years since I’ve been thrilled by individual level displayed.

The 14-15 and 15-16 Ross races are one thing we can just talk about in a broad sense but when you dig deeper what you find is appalling.

This will start halfway through 14-15 and end halfway through 15-16. From January 18 2015 to January 21 2016 Sidney Crosby had only 73 points in 82 consecutive NHL regular season games. He started this at age 27 (McDavid’s age) and ended at 28. There were 10 players during this span that finished with more points. There were 14 players that had a higher ppg average with at least 50 games played during this. Kane at 1.33 and Benn at 1.24 with Crosby at 0.89. That shouldn’t be for a prime Sidney Crosby.

Some of these players he finished behind in ppg include Pavel Datsyuk, Vladimir Tarasenko, Taylor Hall, Joe Pavelski, John Tavares, Nicklas Backstrom, Johnny Gaudreau and Tyler Seguin. Even if you take both years in their entirety he is clearly bested by an inferior player in Patrick Kane for ppg and can’t create any separation from Benn and Tyler Seguin. And that’s with adding the “good” halves of those seasons for him.

This is what I would personally consider a truly rotten performance from a generational talent. I say that with ZERO pleasure and just pure objectivity as one that was also there for it all. I remember my kids at the time being baffled by how he wasn’t winning over Kane and Benn. None of that mattered when we won in 16 that summer. There was redemption of sorts.

All of this to say that McDavid hasn’t even remotely reached these depths and yet there is still a chance to win this year while still playing at his peak level when context is applied.

Crosby has that wrist injury in 2014 that he never felt 100% from until a few seasons ago. Still pretty impressive what he was able to do after those two seasons, especially with playoffs included.

 

[authentic]

Well Johnston's system did have just about every player on the team see their numbers drop. But there was more to it than that. Crosby looked like he suddenly lost his confidence, didn't seem to want to hang on to the puck and try to create at all. He just seemed very passive.

Wrist injury from Reaves in 2014. He said it didn’t feel back to normal until 2021. Makes sense as he completely stopped carrying the puck and dominating along the boards like he used to.

 

[El Travo]

MacKinnon returns the favour with a hat trick of his own. Both of them tied at 80 points.

 

[Avs44]

Halfway through the Avs game and MacKinnon has already responded to last night with a hat trick of his own.