Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[Seanaconda]

Its actually quite ironic seeing oiler fans using what ifs, paces and injury excuses. The same stuff they shut down in every wayne v mario or crosby v mcdavid debate. The shoe is on the other foot and for once they are getting a perspective from the other side. Sucks doesnt it?

I don't mind I love kucherov and another ross / hart should give him the respect he for whatever reason never gets .

I commented during the summer that kuch or drai could beat McDavid if they were hot and I got flamed by other oiler fans to no end . McDavid is special that he just always does it

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I don't mind I love kucherov and another ross / hart should give him the respect he for whatever reason never gets .

I commented during the summer that kuch or drai could beat McDavid if they were hot and I got flamed by other oiler fans to no end . McDavid is special that he just always does it

Yup people were saying its impossible for him to be beat. He has now been beaten 3 times outright at age 22, 23, 27

 

[hamzarocks]

Except McDavid’s higher all-time status doesn’t and won’t depend on a few what ifs.

I do try to be consistent with my distaste for the “what if game.” I’ve acknowledged that of course Crosby would have more hardware had he played the games.

But there’s certainly a difference when one player already has 5 Art Rosses, 4 Lindsays, and 3 Harts, before outlining a few “could haves” versus prefacing a player with 3 Lindsays, 2 Art Rosses, and 2 Harts with a litany of what ifs, most of which are based off generously projecting out full hardware for seasons where he missed 29, 41, and 60 games to name a few.

For the most part, we ignore what McDavid might have done with a full healthy rookie season (2015-2016), a season where he was playing while rehabbing a knee injury (2019-2020) sustained in the last game of 2018-2019 that would have taken him out for a whole season had he opted for the recommended surgery, COVID stoppage breaking what could be today 8 hundred point seasons in a row in the aforementioned season, and of course, a 2023-2024 season that has seen him sustain upper and lower body injuries at the beginning and end that have seen him miss time and affect his game when he is playing, because what he has accomplished dwarves these fantasy what if scenarios.

On the other hand, Crosby’s fantasy what if scenarios have dominated discussion throughout his career and no doubt beyond, because it is needed to fill out his case.

Even with all the little wrinkles in McDavid’s story through 9 seasons, he still has 3 Harts, what will almost certainly be 3 additional finalist nominations, and 2 more top 5 finishes, all consecutively done. He will still have 5 Art Rosses, 2 runner ups, and what will be a 3rd place finish this season. He will have finished all 9 of his seasons as top 3 in PPG, and it could be 8 in a row at top 2 in tact even this season. He will still have 7 100+ point seasons, the 3rd highest career PPG about 650 games deep into his career, and among the quickest to point milestones etched in stone. We didn’t need to play the what if game to add more trophies and accolades because it is almost overwhelming as is.

If Crosby was fully healthy hed be the undisputed 6th greatest player ever at best

5 rosses, 5 harts, 5 lindsays, 3 richards, and 2 smythes

If Mcdavid remains fully healthy he will be the greatest player ever (greatest purely on accolades not talent, 66 and 99 for sure still ahead for me and 4 as well most likely)

The difference is Mcdavids existence reduced Crosby on the all time rankings and overall legacy a bit

Crosbys existence doesnt impact Mcdavid now. Hes equal basically to fully healthy Crosby. If he keeps his dominance up next few years he will be pass this scenerio crosby.

Mcdavid is chasing Gretzky really for most combined ross+hart+lindsays.

He gets that + 2 cups (2 smythes) he will be the GOAT in the NHL

 

[authentic]

If Crosby was fully healthy hed be the undisputed 6th greatest player ever at best

5 rosses, 5 harts, 5 lindsays, 3 richards, and 2 smythes

If Mcdavid remains fully healthy he will be the greatest player ever (greatest purely on accolades not talent, 66 and 99 for sure still ahead for me and 4 as well most likely)

The difference is Mcdavids existence reduced Crosby on the all time rankings and overall legacy a bit

Crosbys existence doesnt impact Mcdavid now. Hes equal basically to fully healthy Crosby. If he keeps his dominance up next few years he will be pass this scenerio crosby.

Mcdavid is chasing Gretzky really for most combined ross+hart+lindsays.

He gets that + 2 cups (2 smythes) he will be the GOAT in the NHL

McDavid will never be considered a greater all-time player than Gretzky though, let's get real

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He won't. Looks like Kucherov will be only one to score 100 Assists this season.

Oilers' Connor McDavid: Won't play Friday

Oilers' Connor McDavid: Won't play Friday

www.cbssports.com

Looks like Connor & Oilers priorities health & playoffs over personal achievements in regular season.

Only when it became apparent he wasn't going to win the Art Roas

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

If Crosby was fully healthy hed be the undisputed 6th greatest player ever at best

5 rosses, 5 harts, 5 lindsays, 3 richards, and 2 smythes

If Mcdavid remains fully healthy he will be the greatest player ever (greatest purely on accolades not talent, 66 and 99 for sure still ahead for me and 4 as well most likely)

The difference is Mcdavids existence reduced Crosby on the all time rankings and overall legacy a bit

Crosbys existence doesnt impact Mcdavid now. Hes equal basically to fully healthy Crosby. If he keeps his dominance up next few years he will be pass this scenerio crosby.

Mcdavid is chasing Gretzky really for most combined ross+hart+lindsays.

He gets that + 2 cups (2 smythes) he will be the GOAT in the NHL

Mcdavid is going to lose the ross after playing at minimum 74 games due to a sore groin. The ross winner will have played 81 at most. 7 less gp.... mario had locked the art ross in 92-93 in 56 games... in an 84 game season. Lafontaine the second leading scorer played all 84. Lemieux could give up 28 game difference...28 n lemieux missed his time due to cancer treatment not a sore groin. Lemieux also locked down the 92 art ross after 61 games..... they are not close

 

[Zalos]

McDavid will never be considered a greater all-time player than Gretzky though, let's get real

He'd need 2000+ points, 2 or 3 cups, and more hardware in the coming years. Then, there could be a discussion.

 

[Fantomas]

He'd need 2000+ points, 2 or 3 cups, and more hardware in the coming years. Then, there could be a discussion.

Nah. What makes Gretzky special is that he was untouchable for years in his prime. Literally no one came close to him in scoring for a long time until Mario came along. Year after year he won Harts and Art Ross trophies with a seeming ease.

McDavid doesn't provide that. There will be no such conversation. But McDavid has the potential of turning the "top 4" into a "top 5."

 

[Zalos]

Nah. What makes Gretzky special is that he was untouchable for years in his prime. Literally no one came close to him in scoring for a long time until Mario came along. Year after year he won Harts and Art Ross trophies with a seeming ease.

McDavid doesn't provide that. There will be no such conversation. But McDavid has the potential of turning the "top 4" into a "top 5."

The only reason for this is that the competition McDavid faces is a lot better than what Gretzky faced in his era.

There are a lot of great players right now, and the fact that Kucherov, MacKinnon and others are close to McDavid doesn't diminish him, it just means that those others are up there among the best of all-time too.

 

[Fantomas]

The only reason for this is that the competition McDavid faces is a lot better than what Gretzky faced in his era.

There are a lot of great players right now, and the fact that Kucherov, MacKinnon and others are close to McDavid doesn't diminish him, it just means that those others are up there among the best of all-time too.

"The only reason?" Gonna have to disagree with you there, dawg.

Gretzky in his prime is sort of like McDavid last year, but a little better, and at that level consistently for close to a decade.

Has McDavid maintained the excellence of last season's standard for nearly a decade? The answer is no.

 

[hamzarocks]

Mcdavid is going to lose the ross after playing at minimum 74 games due to a sore groin. The ross winner will have played 81 at most. 7 less gp.... mario had locked the art ross in 92-93 in 56 games... in an 84 game season. Lafontaine the second leading scorer played all 84. Lemieux could give up 28 game difference...28 n lemieux missed his time due to cancer treatment not a sore groin. Lemieux also locked down the 92 art ross after 61 games..... they are not close

Yes Mcdavid isnt a better talent than Lemieux

He can carve the better legacy and end greater all time due to Lemieux injuries

Mcdavid is the 3rd best/most talented player for me after 99 and 66

 

[Spirits]

Home ice in the first round has still not been secured

That's over lmao. We won't sniff home ice.

 

[Zalos]

"The only reason?" Gonna have to disagree with you there, dawg.

Gretzky in his prime is sort of like McDavid last year, but a little better, and at that level consistently for close to a decade.

Has McDavid maintained the excellence of last season's standard for nearly a decade? The answer is no.

Fine, it's not the only reason, but I think it is a big one.

Another one is that Gretzky had one of the best offensive teams of all time backing him up for most of those years. As good as the current Oilers team is, it does not compare to that 80s dynasty all-star lineup.

But yea, I didn't mean that he will be considered better than Gretzky (or Lemieux), just that the discussion will be possible if he reaches those numbers. Talent-wise, I think he already is among those players. Gretzky and Lemieux were just better than him in certain facets of the game.

Back to the topic, though, at this point I hope Kucherov wins the race. He still has so many haters!

 

[WalterLundy]

Mcdavid is going to lose the ross after playing at minimum 74 games due to a sore groin. The ross winner will have played 81 at most. 7 less gp.... mario had locked the art ross in 92-93 in 56 games... in an 84 game season. Lafontaine the second leading scorer played all 84. Lemieux could give up 28 game difference...28 n lemieux missed his time due to cancer treatment not a sore groin. Lemieux also locked down the 92 art ross after 61 games..... they are not close

It took McDavid 68 games last year with 129 to lock up the Ross and that was over a teammate that doesn’t score 128 points without him that year. Third place (next closest non teammates) are Kucherov and Pastrnak with 113. McDavid had 113 in 60 and passed it in game 61. I’m not saying this is better than Lemieux or at his level but no player since him has dusted competition like this. He’s the closest to it and against competition that relatively is scoring at higher rates mind you.

As far as 93 Lemieux and Lafontaine go in this years scoring environment it would be LaFontaine at 120 in 84 (117 in 82) and Lemieux with 132 in 60. Neither one of them would win the Ross this year. LaFontaine because he isn’t nearly as good as any of the top 3 in scoring this year. For Mario it’s because of Lemieux only playing 60 games but in order to top Kucherov’s current 81 game pace of 146 comfortably he’d need to play 70 games and that’s his peak season here.

 

[Video Nasty]

You know a player is a stone cold lock to remold the Big Four into a new Big Five when the detractors are clinging to make believe arguments revolving around solely Gretzky and Lemieux.

Shame Crosby couldn’t even be in the next room listening with his ear pressed against the wall to that conversation.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You know a player is a stone cold lock to remold the Big Four into a new Big Five when the detractors are clinging to make believe arguments revolving around solely Gretzky and Lemieux.

Shame Crosby couldn’t even be in the next room listening with his ear pressed against the wall to that conversation.

Busy winning cups n smythes

 

[Bob and 200 others]

Mackinnon with a Macdonut, thanks Jets!

 

[Stammertime91]

What a daft reply and ringing endorsement from MacKinnon to not get a point when he so desperately needed it. Does the storm trooper have any thoughts on his performance?

 

[Video Nasty]

As far as 93 Lemieux and Lafontaine go in this years scoring environment it would be LaFontaine at 120 in 84 (117 in 82) and Lemieux with 132 in 60. Neither one of them would win the Ross this year. LaFontaine because he isn’t nearly as good as any of the top 3 in scoring this year. For Mario it’s because of Lemieux only playing 60 games but in order to top Kucherov’s current 81 game pace of 146 comfortably he’d need to play 70 games and that’s his peak season here.

Remember everyone, Lemieux is my second favorite player, even over McDavid.

Something I wanted to note about the 1992-1993 scoring race.

When Mario exited, he had 104 points in 40 games (41 team games). LaFontaine had 73 points in 39 games (39 team games). An absolutely staggering 31 point lead. Can’t say enough glowing things about it.

But what I wanted to comment on and how it differs from McDavid’s top competition is that Kucherov and MacKinnon didn’t let up like LaFontaine did. Those two players carried their own torrid pace from the 10 game mark to the current day 79-80 game mark.

After putting up 1.872 PPG through the date Mario exited, he finished up with 75 points in his final 45 games, 1.666 PPG. He especially closed with something of a whimper, 14 points in his final 12 games and 5 in his final 6.

If LaFontaine did what Kucherov and MacKinnon did from January to now, i.e. increase his PPG from what it was up to that point, Lemieux would not have won the Art Ross in 60 games.

My point is not to diminish Lemieux, because winning an Art Ross while playing 24 less games under his circumstances is incredible. Even coming close in a losing effort would have been nearly as remarkable.

But it does need to be mentioned that sometimes events unfold in a certain way, outside of a player’s control.

McDavid still could have won the Art Ross this season with 130 if his peers simply did what they did the past few seasons. It didn’t happen. He got top level competition having their peak career nuclear seasons and still almost got there.

While I’m not going to pretend it’s a phantom Art Ross like those who do so for Crosby’s collection, I’m also not going to let it be forgotten that McDavid trimmed a 22 point deficit in just 28 games and 2 months against his competition who upped their already high PPG during that time and actually took the lead.

That was pretty special, no matter how short lived it turned out to be.

 

[WarriorofTime]

MacKinnon getting shut out today will make it tough to come back.

 

[Coffey]

MacKinnon getting shut out today will make it tough to come back.

Not a good look going into the playoffs.

 

[Deas]

Fine, it's not the only reason, but I think it is a big one. Another one is that Gretzky had one of the best offensive teams of all time backing him up for most of those years. As good as the current Oilers team is, it does not compare to that 80s dynasty all-star lineup.

But yea, I didn't mean that he will be considered better than Gretzky (or Lemieux), just that the discussion will be possible if he reaches those numbers. Talent-wise, I think he already is among those players. Gretzky and Lemieux were just better than him in certain facets of the game.

Back to the topic, though, at this point I hope Kucherov wins the race. He still has so many haters!

I think you are exaggerating and repeating a worn out inaccurate argument. The Oilers were not a bunch of all stars steamrolling the opposition offensively unless it was Gretzky doing the steamrolling. Gretzky’s line obliterated the scoring of their other lines and Gretzky obliterated the scoring of his linemates. He never had a forward teammate of Draisaitl’s offensive status. Further, the weak competition argument is not that strong. After some years he went up against Lemieux and before that Dione, Bossy, Stastny and Savard, and there were about 600 players in the league then already. Also, fast forward to 97-98 a 37 year old Gretzky was 4th in league scoring as a small player in the dead puck era.

McDavid would have to find another insane gear for several years to remotely compare in scoring dominance. He can however by smaller margins pile up more Rosses which would be immensely impressive in its own of course.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Remember everyone, Lemieux is my second favorite player, even over McDavid.

Something I wanted to note about the 1992-1993 scoring race.

When Mario exited, he had 104 points in 40 games (41 team games). LaFontaine had 73 points in 39 games (39 team games). An absolutely staggering 31 point lead. Can’t say enough glowing things about it.

But what I wanted to comment on and how it differs from McDavid’s top competition is that Kucherov and MacKinnon didn’t let up like LaFontaine did. Those two players carried their own torrid pace from the 10 game mark to the current day 79-80 game mark.

After putting up 1.872 PPG through the date Mario exited, he finished up with 75 points in his final 45 games, 1.666 PPG. He especially closed with something of a whimper, 14 points in his final 12 games and 5 in his final 6.

If LaFontaine did what Kucherov and MacKinnon did from January to now, i.e. increase his PPG from what it was up to that point, Lemieux would not have won the Art Ross in 60 games.

My point is not to diminish Lemieux, because winning an Art Ross while playing 24 less games under his circumstances is incredible. Even coming close in a losing effort would have been nearly as remarkable.

But it does need to be mentioned that sometimes events unfold in a certain way, outside of a player’s control.

McDavid still could have won the Art Ross this season with 130 if his peers simply did what they did the past few seasons. It didn’t happen. He got top level competition having their peak career nuclear seasons and still almost got there.

While I’m not going to pretend it’s a phantom Art Ross like those who do so for Crosby’s collection, I’m also not going to let it be forgotten that McDavid trimmed a 22 point deficit in just 28 games and 2 months against his competition who upped their already high PPG during that time and actually took the lead.

That was pretty special, no matter how short lived it turned out to be.

And lemieux turn a 12 point deficit to a 12 point lead in 20 games coming back from 2 months of radiation treatment. Not a lil groin injury. No where near as amazing

 

[Video Nasty]

And lemieux turn a 12 point deficit to a 12 point lead in 20 games coming back from 2 months of radiation treatment. Not a lil groin injury. No where near as amazing

Coming from the guy talking about mumps.

 

[kugelbahn]

anticliMACtic