Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[Rschmitz]

McDavid isn't the only one who has to deal with injuries, Kucherov missed an entire season. Played through broken ribs in the playoffs after a brutal crosscheck from Mayfield, Lightning don't win consecutive cups if he doesn't.

Mackinnon has missed out on several regular season awards due to injuries derailing his season.

Good for McDavid if it was his decision to heal up. I mean what does it say about him if he's playing hurt to try and win another meaningless regular season trophy while the guys hes chasing have already won a cup? It'll be easy for him to break 100 assists sooner or later, but winning a cup is hard.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Its actually quite ironic seeing oiler fans using what ifs, paces and injury excuses. The same stuff they shut down in every wayne v mario or crosby v mcdavid debate. The shoe is on the other foot and for once they are getting a perspective from the other side. Sucks doesnt it?

 

[DFC]

McDavid isn't the only one who has to deal with injuries, Kucherov missed an entire season. Played through broken ribs in the playoffs after a brutal crosscheck from Mayfield, Lightning don't win consecutive cups if he doesn't.

Mackinnon has missed out on several regular season awards due to injuries derailing his season.

Good for McDavid if it was his decision to heal up. I mean what does it say about him if he's playing hurt to try and win another meaningless regular season trophy while the guys hes chasing have already won a cup? It'll be easy for him to break 100 assists sooner or later, but winning a cup is hard.

Easy might not be the best word for it. Even as great as McDavid is, in his career year he hit 89 assists. And he's 27, so there won't be unlimited cracks at it.

I'd like to see him get to it. I mean, if he's legitimately risking getting injured worse going into the playoffs, then yeah, sit. I wouldn't want Kucherov risking the playoffs for meaningless regular season games, no matter what individual achievement was within reach. I guess it depends on just how precautionary they are being.

 

[AgeIess]

He's got a better chance of ending his career with 10 Art Rosses than he does with 5. Keep on hoping

Never, you guys keep enjoying your "what ifs!".

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Never, you guys keep enjoying your "what ifs!".

This is guy is still at it lol? Bro get a life

 

[WalterLundy]

Its actually quite ironic seeing oiler fans using what ifs, paces and injury excuses. The same stuff they shut down in every wayne v mario or crosby v mcdavid debate. The shoe is on the other foot and for once they are getting a perspective from the other side. Sucks doesnt it?

I get what you’re saying especially if you are on that side of the argument. I see why you view it the way you do. However saying that a peak healthy Connor McDavid would outscore even this years great Kucherov version isn’t a stretch nor the same as elevating Crosby’s first 9 over McDavid’s. Or elevating Lemieux over Gretzky. We are talking about a singular year here that changes very little especially as time will go on. Not taking the guys with slightly lower peaks and rewriting large portions of careers to make it close.

 

[AgeIess]

This is guy is still at it lol? Bro get a life

I have a life, it's dedicated to hating McDavid.

 

[authentic]

Thank god McDavid isn't getting another Ross this year. I hope he never gets another ever again!

Nathaniel, is that you?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I get what you’re saying especially if you are on that side of the argument. I see why you view it the way you do. However saying that a peak healthy Connor McDavid would outscore even this years great Kucherov version isn’t a stretch nor the same as elevating Crosby’s first 9 over McDavid’s. Or elevating Lemieux over Gretzky. We are talking about a singular year here that changes very little especially as time will go on. Not taking the guys with slightly lower peaks and rewriting large portions of careers to make it close.

Nathaniel, is that you?

No

 

[wetcoast]

Someone posted a “next 5” on the roster comparison instead if second place, found it interesting.

Also Point currently has 43 goals it isnt some huge “gotcha” that Kuch only plays with Point.

Whoever wins the Hart, the other two fanbases will rightfully argue they deserved it. Only one trophy.

All that says is that 3 forwards had Hart worthy seasons and that's before people overlook the Hughes and Helly arguments for the Hart but they have other trophies.

Personally I can't wait for Kuch to win the Art Ross then the " he got robber of the Hart" threads can begin eh.

 

[Dingo]

Its actually quite ironic seeing oiler fans using what ifs, paces and injury excuses. The same stuff they shut down in every wayne v mario or crosby v mcdavid debate. The shoe is on the other foot and for once they are getting a perspective from the other side. Sucks doesnt it?

really good point

 

[Rschmitz]

Easy might not be the best word for it. Even as great as McDavid is, in his career year he hit 89 assists. And he's 27, so there won't be unlimited cracks at it.

I'd like to see him get to it. I mean, if he's legitimately risking getting injured worse going into the playoffs, then yeah, sit. I wouldn't want Kucherov risking the playoffs for meaningless regular season games, no matter what individual achievement was within reach. I guess it depends on just how precautionary they are being.

Naw, don't you read these forums? 100 assists is light work

 

[John Mandalorian]

Shootouts, are we really going there now?

Kuch is 0 for 2 this year.
Mack is 0 for 3.

 

[Signupnow]

In a few hours we going to see something that hasnt been done for a long time.

 

[Dingo]

I still think MacKinnon has a good shot at overtaking Kucherov, but Kucherov is in the drivers seat, for sure. If he has a couple of big games there isnt much that Mack can do.

 

[The Macho King]

I still think MacKinnon has a good shot at overtaking Kucherov, but Kucherov is in the drivers seat, for sure. If he has a couple of big games there isnt much that Mack can do.

I wouldn't say "good shot" - 4 points to make up in 3 games is a lot.

Certainly possible though. Although Colorado doesn't really have anything left to play for.

 

[dmac7719]

I wouldn't say "good shot" - 4 points to make up in 3 games is a lot.

Certainly possible though. Although Colorado doesn't really have anything left to play for.

Home ice in the first round has still not been secured

 

[Dingo]

I wouldn't say "good shot" - 4 points to make up in 3 games is a lot.

Certainly possible though. Although Colorado doesn't really have anything left to play for.

well, thats kinda the thing. They dont need to do anything except feed MacKinnon and pad his stats.

I hope Kuch wins it, but im not breaking out the good stuff just yet.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I still think MacKinnon has a good shot at overtaking Kucherov, but Kucherov is in the drivers seat, for sure. If he has a couple of big games there isnt much that Mack can do.

I agree, its a 4 point lead but Mack has the tiebreaker so it's really only a 3.5 point lead with 3 games to play. Advantage Kuch but a lot can still happen.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I agree, its a 4 point lead but Mack has the tiebreaker so it's really only a 3.5 point lead with 3 games to play. Advantage Kuch but a lot can still happen.

If kuch doesn't go ice cold it's likely his.

If he puts up 3 pts over the last 3 games mackinnon would need 7 pts, if he can manage 4 mack would need 8, etc. Possible, but definitely difficult.

The only way it can realistically happen is if Kuch goes cold and outs up less than 3 pts in the next 3 games.

 

[Video Nasty]

Its actually quite ironic seeing oiler fans using what ifs, paces and injury excuses. The same stuff they shut down in every wayne v mario or crosby v mcdavid debate. The shoe is on the other foot and for once they are getting a perspective from the other side. Sucks doesnt it?

Except McDavid’s higher all-time status doesn’t and won’t depend on a few what ifs.

I do try to be consistent with my distaste for the “what if game.” I’ve acknowledged that of course Crosby would have more hardware had he played the games.

But there’s certainly a difference when one player already has 5 Art Rosses, 4 Lindsays, and 3 Harts, before outlining a few “could haves” versus prefacing a player with 3 Lindsays, 2 Art Rosses, and 2 Harts with a litany of what ifs, most of which are based off generously projecting out full hardware for seasons where he missed 29, 41, and 60 games to name a few.

For the most part, we ignore what McDavid might have done with a full healthy rookie season (2015-2016), a season where he was playing while rehabbing a knee injury (2019-2020) sustained in the last game of 2018-2019 that would have taken him out for a whole season had he opted for the recommended surgery, COVID stoppage breaking what could be today 8 hundred point seasons in a row in the aforementioned season, and of course, a 2023-2024 season that has seen him sustain upper and lower body injuries at the beginning and end that have seen him miss time and affect his game when he is playing, because what he has accomplished dwarves these fantasy what if scenarios.

On the other hand, Crosby’s fantasy what if scenarios have dominated discussion throughout his career and no doubt beyond, because it is needed to fill out his case.

Even with all the little wrinkles in McDavid’s story through 9 seasons, he still has 3 Harts, what will almost certainly be 3 additional finalist nominations, and 2 more top 5 finishes, all consecutively done. He will still have 5 Art Rosses, 2 runner ups, and what will be a 3rd place finish this season. He will have finished all 9 of his seasons as top 3 in PPG, and it could be 8 in a row at top 2 in tact even this season. He will still have 7 100+ point seasons, the 3rd highest career PPG about 650 games deep into his career, and among the quickest to point milestones etched in stone. We didn’t need to play the what if game to add more trophies and accolades because it is almost overwhelming as is.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Except McDavid’s higher all-time status doesn’t and won’t depend on a few what ifs.

Bingo. That's the big difference between Crosby and McDavid, which is unfortunate for Dave and Nate.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Except McDavid’s higher all-time status doesn’t and won’t depend on a few what ifs.

I do try to be consistent with my distaste for the “what if game.” I’ve acknowledged that of course Crosby would have more hardware had he played the games.

But there’s certainly a difference when one player already has 5 Art Rosses, 4 Lindsays, and 3 Harts, before outlining a few “could haves” versus prefacing a player with 3 Lindsays, 2 Art Rosses, and 2 Harts with a litany of what ifs, most of which are based off generously projecting out full hardware for seasons where he missed 29, 41, and 60 games to name a few.

For the most part, we ignore what McDavid might have done with a full healthy rookie season (2015-2016), a season where he was playing while rehabbing a knee injury (2019-2020) sustained in the last game of 2018-2019 would have taken him out for a whole season had he opted for the recommended surgery, COVID stoppage breaking what could be today 8 hundred point seasons in a row, and of course, a 2023-2024 season that has seen him sustain upper and lower body injuries at the beginning and end that have seen him miss time and affect his game when he is playing, because what he has accomplished dwarves these fantasy what if scenarios.

On the other hand, Crosby’s fantasy what if scenarios have dominated discussion throughout his career and no doubt beyond, because it is needed to fill out his case.

Even with all the little wrinkles in McDavid’s story through 9 seasons, he still has 3 Harts, what will almost certainly be 3 additional finalist nominations, and 2 more top 5 finishes, all consecutively done. He will still have 5 Art Rosses, 2 runner ups, and what will be a 3rd place finish. He will have finished all 9 of his seasons as top 3 in PPG, and it could be 8 in a row at top 2 in tact even this season. He will still have 7 100+ point seasons, the 3rd highest career PPG about 650 games deep into his career, and among the quickest to point milestones etched in stone.

Im not talking about his all time rank. Im talking about this years art ross n hart race. The injury excuses are already pouring in ignoring kuch still has the higher ppg regardless. In the 2 seasons pens fans talk about 10-11 and 12-13. I myself never really bring up 11-12 as it was only 22 games but the other two crosby was at least dominating the scoring race. This year mcdavid has held a tie for 1 HOUR. The rest of the season its been kuch n mack. Then you have 07-08 which is probably the comparison to make to this years mcdavid. Both the reigning ross winner not far back from the ppg lead but injuries stopped a great potential chance for an art ross. It stinks but now you at least see the other side of the hedge. At least you give crosby his due with 2013. Took martin st louis 25 days to pass crosby n ovechkin won his mvp after crosby was out 29 days and on his last game of the season n last day of the season to merely tie him in points

 

[Video Nasty]

Im not talking about his all time rank. Im talking about this years art ross n hart race. The injury excuses are already pouring in ignoring kuch still has the higher ppg regardless. In the 2 seasons pens fans talk about 10-11 and 12-13. I myself never really bring up 11-12 as it was only 22 games but the other two crosby was at least dominating the scoring race. This year mcdavid has held a tie for 1 HOUR. The rest of the season its been kuch n mack. Then you have 07-08 which is probably the comparison to make to this years mcdavid. Both the reigning ross winner not far back from the ppg lead but injuries stopped a great potential chance for an art ross. It stinks but now you at least see the other side of the hedge. At least you give crosby his due with 2013. Took martin st louis 25 days to pass crosby n ovechkin won his mvp after crosby was out 29 days and on his last game of the season n last day of the season to merely tie him in points

While you’re correct about Kucherov having the higher PPG and I understand why you want to cement that surface level fact for the years to come, I’m the flip side of that argument.

I’m recognizing that McDavid is still right there, despite clearly working through that early injury for 8 or so games after he only sat for two (rushed back because the team was imploding). And as someone who does my best within reason to not miss a game he plays, he was still “off” to a degree despite his still extremely high level of play that led to him storming all the way back from 22 points down to having sole possession of the scoring for yes, a mere hour or so before the next slate of games began that day. He has been hesitant to shoot for much of this season. I hope to always drop in and provide the context of this season whenever I see it glossed over and I see people forgetting like most inevitably do as the years pass. I saw people forget or ignore days later; I have no doubt it will get worse later.

In the end, I’m not the right guy to argue about the what if component to McDavid’s current season. My heart just isn’t fully committed to what ifs.

It took tremendous talents like Kucherov and MacKinnon having healthy almost certainly peak of their career seasons to best a hobbled McDavid. I look at that and remain encouraged.

Zero doubt in mind that a back to normal healthy McDavid, who may even be a champion going into 2024-2025, drops 160 points, and recaptures all his hardware.

And that will be another difference between how Crosby and McDavid’s careers have unfolded. Still plenty more to come.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

While you’re correct about Kucherov having the higher PPG and I understand why you want to cement that surface level fact for the years to come, I’m the flip side of that argument.

I’m recognizing that McDavid is still right there, despite clearly working through that early injury for 8 or so games after he only sat for two (rushed back because the team was imploding). And as someone who does my best within reason to not miss a game he plays, he was still “off” to a degree despite his still extremely high level of play that led to him storming all the way back from 22 points down to having sole possession of the scoring for yes, a mere hour or so before the next slate of games began that day. He has been hesitant to shoot for much of this season. I hope to always drop in and provide the context of this season whenever I see it glossed over and I see people forgetting like most inevitably do as the years pass. I saw people forget or ignore days later; I have no doubt it will get worse later.

In the end, I’m not the right guy to argue about the what if component to McDavid’s current season. My heart just isn’t fully committed to what ifs.

It took tremendous talents like Kucherov and MacKinnon having healthy almost certainly peak of their career seasons to best a hobbled McDavid. I look at that and remain encouraged.

Zero doubt in mind that a back to normal healthy McDavid, who may even be a champion going into 2024-2025, drops 160 points, and recaptures all his hardware.

And that will be another difference between how Crosby and McDavid’s careers have unfolded. Still plenty more to come.

In 14-15 crosby lost by 5 points with 3 less games led the league in ppg. Finishing third the same mcdavid will this year both 27. Mcdavid is having the much better season obv n mack n kuch are worlds better than Benn n tavares thats non arguable. But Crosby also dealt with the mumps that season which was rampant in the league. He started off hot then got the mumps which did affect his overall totals. Mumps for Crosby. Groin for mcdavid. Both played 77 n at least 74 games and that should be good enough for both. But it wasent n it isnt. Sid never recaptured the hart or ross but he did capture 2 smythes and 2 cups post. Lets see because that right there may be the biggest difference between their careers.