Niinimaa out of Team Finland

[teme]

The issue with Summanen is respect. If you want to be a tough discplinarian you need that and judging from what I've heard he doesn't have it.

First of all the guy lies with a straight face. Regarding the incident someone mentioned when Summanen was a still player, it was 1995 (I think) and the game was the second final between Jokerit (Niinimaa of the current national players) and TPS (Koivu, Lehtinen, Timonen, Salo and Berg) TPS midget Niko Mikkola tried to run Jokerit star center Otacar Janecky who in his casual way raised his elbow to receive the hit (I miss Otto so much...) Mikkola fell to the ice, Summanen (TPS) stormed out the bench, and a bench-clearing brawl took place where among other fights Niinimaa fought Grönman. Summanen insisted he had just come in for a regular shift, in which case he planned to play the shift without stick or glowes. I was there, about ten rows up from TPS bench.

Next up, TPS against HIFK in 1999 (?) finals coached by Westerlund with Summanen as an assistant. HIFK had gooned their way to the title last year (Jokinen, J Ruutu, Timonen, Lydman) but TPS (Eloranta, Kiprusoff) coached by Jortikka refused to be intimated. In third game or something like that Jarkko Ruutu charges Kiprusoff, and is villanized by the press. HIFK still looses the finals. At a later date, Ruutu says Summanen ordered him to do that, which Summanen denies. The word-by-mouth you get from players is that Ruutu is right.

Before taking over the national team, Summanen coached Jokerit. The rumor is that Tuomo Ruutu and Jukka Hentunen among others eventually left the team because of his methods. Summanen has relationships going to back to his playing days with the older players (Selänne, Koivu, Lehtinen, Timonen, Berg, Niinimaa, Salo, Peltonen, Numminen) and has coached the jounger ones at either HIFK, Jokerit or U-20 team (T Ruutu, J Ruutu, Lydman, Vaananen, Hentunen, Jokinen, Lehtonen, N Kapanen, Hagman), actually the only ones of the current team he hasn't to my knowledge coached or played with before becoming national team head coach are Pitkänen, Hahl, Laaksonen, Nieminen, Kiprusoff and Toskala. (Notice a pattern here?) Given his personality, it is hardly suprising that there is some accumulated bad blood.

 

[broman]

Midas, despite being very similar to Summanen, would have a lot more respect from the players thanks to more championship medals than most hockey players can count to.. Summanen, on the other hand only had 2 SM-Liiga medals, and both needed teams of overwhelming firepower to get them.

Then again, with all due respect, SM-Liiga success means precious little in international play. Let alone the World Cup. You can win all the domestic championships in the world yet this is another world we are talking about. It's not like Jortikka's Swedish visit was a blinding success either.

I am not saying Summanen is the ultimate solution and judging from the reports this may well be the last we see of him regardless of the outcome in the tournament. However I strongly disagree that we have stronger alternatives aplenty waiting in the wings, and this includes Jortikka. Calling the man an instant recipe for success is wishful thinking at best.

As for Niinimaa, unfortunately this is a label that he's going to carry with him for a long, long time. It's a red flag to NHL coaches and GMs alike. It's one thing to be critical of the coach, but to walk out on a team just as the tournament is getting started? He will be tested and tested hard once NHL is under way once again. How will he react to criticism? Will he stand up and face the heat, or melt under pressure?

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

I'm not saying Jortikka is an instant recipe for success.

With Oulu's winning coach from last season now in Russia (probably hard to get out of contract?) and will probbaly want to prove himself there too (would be good to have future finland head coach get success elsewhere..).

Jortikka's CV is just too good to ignore. Jääkiekkoliitto would have a very hard time appointing someone else for the job. And to be fair, the best man for the job, on paper, must get a chance before we take risks.

 

[broman]

An interesting take on the situation, coming up pro-Summanen in contrast with most of mainstream media:

http://www.jatkoaika.com/maajoukkue.php?sivu=kolumnit&id=2384

All in Finnish but choice tidbits follow:

"At the moment it looks like head coach Summanen's person and coaching methods have come as a surprise to all and sundry. Summanen has never been everyone's pal and well liked all across the land. Yet sometimes borderline psychopathic Summanen has something to back him up: results."

"Summanen gets everything out of the players at his disposal and a place in the semis calls only for a probable win against Germany. Summanen's managed to instill the required attitude in his players, and as a result Finland is playing aggressive, mobile and enjoyable hockey."

"After the Sweden game, Summanen stated he's going to give feedback to the players in order to wake up the guys still sleepwalking in stupor and bring them in line with the rest of the team who are giving their all. Niinimaa couldn't come up with what Summanen demands from all his players. Animosity between player and coach dated back to first team selections, when Summanen preferred Jere Karalahti over well-experienced Niinimaa."

"What happened in the talks between the two has no significance. Niinimaa's departure was not a result of the words spoken. It lies in the hurt pride of a star defenceman, resulting in poor preparations and, as a direct consequence, poor match performance that Summanen could not approve."

"If someone is not prepared to listen to feedback, sometimes pointed, coming from the coaches, it may be about time to consider dropping out of games that call for complete dedication and 100% attitude. If a player's ego can't take being left in reserves, it's high time to think of your position in the team."

"If a sports journalist or a hockey federation suit is more interested in having Team Finland steered by a conflict-free, smooth-talking comments machine than achieving real success against the best the world has to offer, they as well most stop to consider their own motives."

 

[gib]

Also from Jatkoaika column:

"Niinimaa isn`t the first people Summanen has managed to get angry because of his behaivior or actions. Head coach only lives for one thing: winning."

Summanen lives only for one thing: winningn. That is his biggest strenght and weaknes at the same time. He gets the most out of players, but at the same time he seeds grains of anger and bitterness. At some point it`s inevitable that anger and bitternes will tear up the team.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

a bit more from jatkoaika

Niinimaa's departure is the final straw for the national media, which is ready to serve Summanens head on a plate - preferably as soon as possible.

Maybe only winning the tournament can buy Summanen more time as head coach of Finland.

Summanen's supporters are nowhere to be found. Niinimaa abandoned the team at its most critical hour and the noose is being redies, however it's for Summanen's neck. Even hockey federation chairman Kalerko Kummola is considering the head coach's position after the World Cup ends. In Finnish/English this means that the hockey federation is already writing up the press memo of his sacking.

 

[broman]

As for Niinimaa, unfortunately this is a label that he's going to carry with him for a long, long time. It's a red flag to NHL coaches and GMs alike. It's one thing to be critical of the coach, but to walk out on a team just as the tournament is getting started? He will be tested and tested hard once NHL is under way once again. How will he react to criticism? Will he stand up and face the heat, or melt under pressure?

Or as a poster in the Islanders board put it ever so succintly: "Janne doesn't like the coach so he quit on the team. Thoughts?"

That's the question that will be asked over and over again. Hope it has been worth it.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

What I wonder more, is how this affects tonights game.

I can imagine Kummola making 30 odd calls to all the players and coaching staff after this incident.. now, it only needs 1 person to tell him what happened, thats what? 3.5% chance? Pretty good odds that someoen tells him everything.

So, what would Kummola do next? I can imagine a call to Summanen saying "one more player walks and you're sacked mid-tournament, we cant afford to lose anymore" and then instructing Kurri and Westerlund to keep Summanen in check..

How does that affect teams play on ice if Summanen blows his top during an intermission? Does Westerlund or Kurri step in and intervene and "take control for rest of the match"?

Anyway you put it, this is a bad situation for Finland to be in right now. Having clouds in dressing room is worst poison they could drink.

No matter how successful/good/great the coach, if the star players wont play for him, then his days are over. It's no good having a national team with the best coach but 2nd grade players..

 

[teme]

"Yet sometimes borderline psychopathic Summanen has something to back him up: results."

He has? What exactly, U20 gold? If you are Scotty Bowman or even Mike Keenan, you get away with a lot, Raimo Summanen on the other hand... If Summanen and co. can deliver results, all is relatively well, if not...

"Summanen's managed to instill the required attitude in his players, and as a result Finland is playing aggressive, mobile and enjoyable hockey."

Finland has been playing aggressive, mobile and enjoyable hockey for a very long time. Comparatively, current team looks somewhat timid and slow.

"Animosity between player and coach dated back to first team selections, when Summanen preferred Jere Karalahti over well-experienced Niinimaa."

I think the real rub is being dismissed in favor of Aki Berg, not Karalahti. Or if we are talking about home games disasters, how about Lydman and Väänänen? Both playing OK now too.

"It lies in the hurt pride of a star defenceman, resulting in poor preparations and, as a direct consequence, poor match performance that Summanen could not approve."

Niinimaa was OK against Sweden, not great but OK. Salo has been great for the whole tournament, some credit needs to go to his partner too. The guys who really diserved a whipping (and got it?) were Numminen and Timonen for not doing a damn thing on fourth and first goal respectively.

"If someone is not prepared to listen to feedback, sometimes pointed, coming from the coaches, it may be about time to consider dropping out of games that call for complete dedication and 100% attitude. If a player's ego can't take being left in reserves, it's high time to think of your position in the team."

Somehow I've never considered lack of dedication and effort the problem with the Lions. Top Finnish players tend to be a hard working bunch almost without an exception, Niinimaa certainly included. Crediting Summanen with that is not fair to anyone.

Summanen and Westerlund are good coaches, more specificly game leading and strategy are their strenghts, but I've always attributed that more to Westerlund who to my knowledge is the brains on the operation. There is bit of Mike Keenan in them, players tend to respond either very well or very badly to their coaching. This is fine on a club team where they can hand pick the players they want, it might be a problem on the national team where they are basicly dealt a ready hand to play with.

 

[gib]

Or as a poster in the Islanders board put it ever so succintly: "Janne doesn't like the coach so he quit on the team. Thoughts?"

That's the question that will be asked over and over again. Hope it has been worth it.

Well Janne isn`t the first player to do so. Usually it has been russian or chech player who wont join in to the team because of a coach or drop out of team because of a coach. I don`t think this will affect so much to Janne`s NHL career.....but I think this will sure affect to Summanen`s NHL career as a coach. I believe I have read somewhere that Summanen goal is to be NHL coach someday. Now it seems that he maid a lot harm to his dream come true.

 

[broman]

Summanen's supporters are nowhere to be found. Niinimaa abandoned the team at its most critical hour and the noose is being redies, however it's for Summanen's neck. Even hockey federation chairman Kalerko Kummola is considering the head coach's position after the World Cup ends. In Finnish/English this means that the hockey federation is already writing up the press memo of his sacking.

This is in obvious reference to Kummola's remarks that MTV3/Iltalehti/Aamulehti media group has been busy making the most of. The columnist makes it clear that he doesn't agree, but what can you do.

This is a sad reminder of the realities of the equalitarian utopia called Finland that we inhabit. Everyone must have a good time and no one should get hurt. The boss mustn't issue orders, let alone criticize people who are not performing. We should all just sit together by the open fire and talk things over. The world will be a much better place afterwards. Too bad winning doesn't fit in the equation.

I just wonder how many Flames players walked out on the team after Darryl Sutter let out a barrage of choice expletives after a particularly poor performance. And where it landed them.

 

[broman]

Well Janne isn`t the first player to do so. Usually it has been russian or chech player who wont join in to the team because of a coach or drop out of team because of a coach.

Halfway through the tournament just as the playoffs are getting started?

 

[gib]

Halfway through the tournament just as the playoffs are getting started?

My main point was that I don`t think this will affect to Niinimaa`s NHL career that much.

 

[Ironchef Chris Wok*]

Next up, TPS against HIFK in 1999 (?) finals coached by Westerlund with Summanen as an assistant. HIFK had gooned their way to the title last year (Jokinen, J Ruutu, Timonen, Lydman) but TPS (Eloranta, Kiprusoff) coached by Jortikka refused to be intimated. In third game or something like that Jarkko Ruutu charges Kiprusoff, and is villanized by the press. HIFK still looses the finals. At a later date, Ruutu says Summanen ordered him to do that, which Summanen denies. The word-by-mouth you get from players is that Ruutu is right.

To be fair, charging a goalie is pretty Ruutu-ish by nature. He IS capable of doing that on his own.

 

[teme]

This is a sad reminder of the realities of the equalitarian utopia called Finland that we inhabit. Everyone must have a good time and no one should get hurt. The boss mustn't issue orders, let alone criticize people who are not performing. We should all just sit together by the open fire and talk things over. The world will be a much better place afterwards. Too bad winning doesn't fit in the equation.

Off-topic, but this is complete nonsense. I work for a subsidary of an American company in Finland. Over here, when something isn't working we admit it. From the corporate side, there are never any problems, only "challenges", no mistakes are admitted, nobody takes responsibility, you never get a straight answer on any hard question and so on... To the extent that the idea makes any sense, we may have various national phychological short comings, but lack of criticism or general over-sensitivity to others feelings are not among them.

 

[broman]

I think the real rub is being dismissed in favor of Aki Berg, not Karalahti. Or if we are talking about home games disasters, how about Lydman and Väänänen? Both playing OK now too.

I think team selection owes a lot to Jarmo Kekalainen's scouting work over the NHL season. Summanen is said to value him highly. It is not much of a reach to suggest that both Lydman and Vaananen got good grades from Kekalainen, while Niinimaa didn't.

Somehow I've never considered lack of dedication and effort the problem with the Lions. Top Finnish players tend to be a hard working bunch almost without an exception, Niinimaa certainly included. Crediting Summanen with that is not fair to anyone.

The columnist is not talking in general terms or of past performances, but what's going on here and now. Walking out on the team shows lack of commitment, simple as that. It's a matter of putting yourself ahead of the team. Having a tantrum instead of biting the bullet.

Summanen and Westerlund are good coaches, more specificly game leading and strategy are their strenghts, but I've always attributed that more to Westerlund who to my knowledge is the brains on the operation.

True, and Summanen is the heart. You need both.

 

[teme]

To be fair, charging a goalie is pretty Ruutu-ish by nature. He IS capable of doing that on his own.

I have no doubts about it, but pretty much everyone agrees that in this case Summanen told him to do it. And while I don't care for such tactics, it's not that he did that, it's that he isn't man enough to admit it that bothers me.

 

[broman]

Off-topic, but this is complete nonsense. I work for a subsidary of an American company in Finland. Over here, when something isn't working we admit it. From the corporate side, there are never any problems, only "challenges", no mistakes are admitted, nobody takes responsibility, you never get a straight answer on any hard question and so on... To the extent that the idea makes any sense, we may have various national phychological short comings, but lack of criticism or general over-sensitivity to others feelings are not among them.

Just to get a point of reference, let's say that a #5 defender walked out on a NHL team on the eve of the playoffs, citing personal issues with the coach. How many NHL GMs would rush out in the public to call for "respect between coach and players" and state that the position of the coach would be re-evaluated after the playoffs are over? In fact, how many NHL GMs would be able to hold onto their own seats if they came up with destabilizing statements like that at such a crucial hour? But this is Finland, where things are different.

Incidentally, Team USA has just had a similar incident after Wilson benched Brett Hull. He stormed out of the next team practice, uttering curses to waiting reporters. You could say that losing a player of Brett Hull's calibre would hurt Team USA. Meanwhile coach Wilson won't back down, he's not promising him a place in the roster in the next game either. But after the initial burst, Brett is keeping his trap shut. He's not distancing himself from the team, or distracting their focus with stupid press statements. Instead, a senior player (Doug Weight) is giving conciliatory interviews. No USHF bigwig has seen a need to steal the stage and get involved. It's a team issue, and it remains within the team. If this is the American way, I will take it any day.

 

[gib]

Walking out on the team shows lack of commitment, simple as that. It's a matter of putting yourself ahead of the team. Having a tantrum instead of biting the bullet.

Well, what I know about Niinimaa, what I have heard what I have seen. Niinimaa is for and most team player who gives 100% of himslef to the team. Great happy guy, who is very liked among other team members. I can`t belive he thinks he is putting himself ahed of the team, noway!

We haven`t yet got information that did Summanen actully insult Niinimaa or was it some other players. Well we can assume that Summanen did insult Niinimaa, because Niinimaa left. But could it also be that Summane did insult other players and that is why Niinmaa left, to show support for his team mates. Well that is a long shot and maybe not the truth.

Anyway, lets take a case where Summanen did insult Niinimaa somehow. Let`s think that Niinimaa thinks of his own that he did play good game. He did give 100% to the team, played as good as he can. Then after the game Summanen shout to him that: "Yóu f'cking as*hole, why don`t give all you got to the ice! You are f*cking defective! What the h*ll you doing in my team?! I will f*vking sure scratch you to next match!!" What does a man think in that sitution? Knowing you can`t do any better, you did give everything you`ve got. Then coach just shouts to you who bad player you are....well I don`t know what has happened there, but I am sure Niinimaa didn`t leave because of little things. In NHL he has for sure heard all kind of **** from coahces. He wont be upset easily, Summanen has really done something..........

 

[broman]

Well, what I know about Niinimaa, what I have heard what I have seen. Niinimaa is for and most team player who gives 100% of himslef to the team. Great happy guy, who is very liked among other team members. I can`t belive he thinks he is putting himself ahed of the team, noway!

You're not getting my point. What may or may not have been said is irrelevant. The same goes for player personalities and past performances.

Regardless of whatever abuse Janne may have taken, and whether it's groundless or not (both questions that we don't have the answers for), he should have bitten the bullet. That would have been in the best interest of the team. He didn't, and chose to come out with his dirty linen instead, smack in the middle of the most important tournament in years.

My question is, why? Are you seriously saying that this was necessary, there was no way around it? That Summanen will now see the wrong in his ways and become a different person overnight? That the team will benefit from this immensely, and will go on to beat Canada in the finals, which they couldn't have done without Janne's personal sacrifice?

As said, a childish tantrum, and a case of putting your own pride ahead of the good of the team. I am going to answer my own question: the only person who can possibly benefit from this is Janne himself. He can say "I told you so" after Team Finland is out of the tournament, regardless of what stage this takes place in. Sad but true.

Edit: oops, a small but crucial typo

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

You're not getting my point. What may or may not have been said is irrelevant. The same goes for player personalities and past performances.

Regardless of whatever abuse Janne may have taken, and whether it's groundless or not (both questions that we don't have the answers for), he should have bitten the bullet. That would have been in the best interest of the team. He didn't, and chose to come out with his dirty linen instead, smack in the middle of the most important tournament in years.

My question is, why? Are you seriously saying that this was necessary, there was no way around it? That Summanen will now see the wrong in his ways and become a different person overnight? That the team will benefit from this immensely, and will go on to beat Canada in the finals, which they couldn't have done without Janne's personal sacrifice?

As said, a childish tantrum, and a case of putting your own pride ahead of the good of the team. I am going to answer my own question: the only person who can possibly benefit from this is Janne himself. He can say "I told you say" after Team Finland is out of the tournament, regardless of what stage this takes place in. Sad but true.

I don't buy that.
I see Niinimaa as a professional who'se taken a lot of abuse by coaches over his near 10 year NHL career and withstood that. Summanen is a character we know who can be insane at times. If he went too far he went too far, at that point Niinimaa's options are to stay and pollute the team athmosphere or leave and hope it relives tention.
He left.

That takes guts, but it is the right decision. The last thing a team needs is a player sulking because of what the coach said or did to him. That's one thing here not considered btw.. what if it isn't what Summanen said but did? Didn't Beckham want a transfer after Fergie kicked a boot into his head? What if Summanen did somehting like that?
Also for the Brett Hull comparison, if his problem is with coach and not getting ice-time and they deal with it like adults, it's not comparable if the Niinimaa situation is over something other than spoken things. Though I must state that that is only speculation that I formented now purely for the sake of "it's possible.."

News reports that allude at inside information do point the finger at Summanen quite a bit. While the media would be overjoyed to get rid of him, and such a story is wonderful for sales.. Not all journalists would go out there and bash him (Summanen) just because..

There's more to this story than has been told, we'll hear about it later (after tournament according to Niinimaa).

If the reports of a almost player revolt are true, then we can quite safely assume that Summanen's only a coach today because the tournaments still going and some are only in the team still because they see the need to see the tournament through.

Bottom line is we dont know everything, and must wait and see for the rest of the story. But something unheathy has happened, who is more guilty is unknown.

 

[Shack]

To be fair, charging a goalie is pretty Ruutu-ish by nature. He IS capable of doing that on his own.

Well, you have to be specialized on something.

 

[broman]

If Janne felt for whatever reason that he couldn't work with Summanen for a single minute more, he could have gone quietly. Undisclosed injury or whatever, in NHL they do it all the time.

Instead he turned it into a media show, making it clear how he is walking out of his own free will etc. If he wants to have the last word after the tournament, he could have had it then. Now wasn't the time or the place.

Oh and BTW, if there really is a player revolt brewing, let's please stir up the unrest for another week or so. I sure like the results it's producing.

 

[gib]

he should have bitten the bullet. That would have been in the best interest of the team. He didn't, and chose to come out with his dirty linen instead, smack in the middle of the most important tournament in years.

He should have bitten the bullet and stayed with the team? But the damage has happend, either he would have stayed with the team or not. If Niinimaa would have stayd with team, he wouldn`t anyway put his best performance. None person who isn`t happy and comfortable can do their best.
How this team would have benefit if Niinimaa had stayed? I believe the tightness between Summanen and Niinimaa must have shown. Do you think that it doesn`t affect to the team if there is player and coach in the locker room who hate each other? Of course Summanen could have scratch Niinimaa and put him to press box, but still everyone on that team is aware of the situation. Everyone knows the chemistry in this team isn`t like it should be.

My question is, why? Are you seriously saying that this was necessary, there was no way around it? That Summanen will now see the wrong in his ways and become a different person overnight? That the team will benefit from this immensely, and will go on to beat Canada in the finals, which they couldn't have done without Janne's personal sacrifice?

I didn`t say it was neccesary, it was a grown man decicion. Like I said earlier, even Niinimaa would have stayed with the damage already had happened. You can`t say which could have been better, the thing that Niinimaa left team or that he wouldn have stayed with the team.
I think Summanen will never change, but sure it wasn`t Niinimaa`s idea to show Summanen how wrong he is. Niinimaa just refused to take that **** from Summanen, it was his decision. Also TK79 wrote that Niinimaa wasn`t the only player who felt leaving the team is the best solution. We will see will team Finland broke up. Sure I don`t hope it, but it seems that Summanen`s coaching methods wont be used after this in national team. There is already four players who wont like to play under Summanen. He can`t coach national team anymore longer, cause in World Championships we will see that majority of our NHLer will refuse to play in national team.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

He can`t coach national team anymore longer, cause in World Championships we will see that majority of our NHLer will refuse to play in national team.

Yes.
If world championship team is year after year basically this:
best european based Finnish players
+ 5 or 6 NHL players

Now, every year a few NHL players say "need a break", "am too injured", "want to spend time with wife" and dont particiape in world championships whihc leavues us with that 5-6 year after year.
Now, Imagine fo those 5-6 some 2.5 guys dislike Summanen (2 so much that they dont come, 0.5 dislike Summanen a lot but still come) then we have European Finnish players + 2.5 NHL players.. surely not enough to get results needed from World Championships unless all other teams also only have 2-3 NHL players..

Since we only have 1 world championship gold, every one more we can get is an important milestone for Finnish hockey.. not competing for them properly because players hate coach, is reason to sack coach imho.

But let's finish this tournament first, and let's all cross our fingers that more players don't quit the team. After that, we can see what happens and how many like/dislike/hate Summanen.