Niinimaa out of Team Finland

[Dale]

The last time Numminen spoke up, he was calling the whole affair regrettable. He did say the team was behind Summanen and Niinimaa both, whatever that may amount to. It's a sweet mess all right. I wish nothing but that they could put the thing behind them, but honestly I am not sure if they can.

Here are some quotes from an article written by one of the main Canadian reporters covering the World Cup in Helsinki.

Allen Panzeri
The Ottawa Citizen


Tuesday, September 07,



HELSINKI, Finland - It was, and remains, an ugly, utterly untimely, and shocking crisis, one that ultimately pits the players against the coach.

"We were supposed to talk about hockey, but we ended up talking about other things," said Teemu Selanne.

"It wasn't a good situation. This was ugly. What happened with Janne was sad. It wasn't easy to come and play with so many other things to think about."

Defenceman Kimmo Timonen said the players tried hard to turn their attention back to hockey.

"We decided that this is a lifetime chance for Finnish hockey," he said. "What happened with Janne is too bad, but it's none of our business. It's between him and the coach.

"We kind of decided that nobody would say anything until the tournament is over. Then they can say whatever they want. We have a chance to do something special, so we decided to focus on that."

But the players were also clear in their support of Niinimaa, Summanen's favourite whipping boy.

"You're always surprised when something like that happens, but everyone knows what the situation on the team is," said defenceman Teppo Numminen.

"Everyone supports Janne and he is still a member of our team, and I think everyone was really professional in preparing for the game, but it wasn't easy."

Both Selanne and Numminen seem to suggest the situation was more than just a simple personality conflict. If that was the case, Niinimaa's leaving was the best choice for the team.

 

[broman]

It's just getting worse and worse with every passing day. Now the yellow press are enjoying the latest turn of events. The source is Ilta-Sanomat.

Fresh out of Team Finland duties, Janne Niinimaa arranged a rowdy party at his penthouse flat in Helsinki city centre on Monday night after the Germany game. The neighbours were not amused. Of Team Finland cornerstone players, at least Miikka Kiprusoff showed up for the good time. The party went on until the morning hours. The team was scheduled to take the flight to North America before noon on Tuesday.

Honestly, I am not sure what to make of this. It seems like the two sides of this clash are preparing for the ultimate confrontation after the tournament is over, and making the most of their press connections while at it. Interestingly, the MTV3/Iltalehti/Aamulehti media group looks strongly pro-Niinimaa, while the dominant Sanoma group is showing signs of support for Summanen. I think there's going to be plenty of mud-slinging before we are through with this.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

It's just getting worse and worse with every passing day. Now the yellow press are enjoying the latest turn of events. The source is Ilta-Sanomat.

Fresh out of Team Finland duties, Janne Niinimaa arranged a rowdy party at his penthouse flat in Helsinki city centre on Monday night after the Germany game. The neighbours were not amused. Of Team Finland cornerstone players, at least Miikka Kiprusoff showed up for the good time. The party went on until the morning hours. The team was scheduled to take the flight to North America before noon on Tuesday.

Honestly, I am not sure what to make of this. It seems like the two sides of this clash are preparing for the ultimate confrontation after the tournament is over, and making the most of their press connections while at it. Interestingly, the MTV3/Iltalehti/Aamulehti media group looks strongly pro-Niinimaa, while the dominant Sanoma group is showing signs of support for Summanen. I think there's going to be plenty of mud-slinging before we are through with this.

It will all sell some newspapers if nothing else.

 

[broman]

Both Selanne and Numminen seem to suggest the situation was more than just a simple personality conflict. If that was the case, Niinimaa's leaving was the best choice for the team.

Just to clarify one more time, myself I have no problem with Janne dropping out of the team. If he just couldn't get along with Summanen, if he felt he couldn't give his 100% to the team, then that was the right call, absolutely. My problem is with the way he did it, going public and distancing himself from the team. Instead of swallowing his pride for a moment, at least until the tournament would have been over.

I would have dealt with it as a team issue that wouldn't have left the team. Just as Koivu and others are saying now, except that now it's too late for that. Janne could have sat out the rest of tournament at the end of the bench, or even in his civvies as the #8 defenceman. Nobody would have made a fuss as he was the backup to begin with. He didn't, and this is where it landed us. Nothing that may come up after the tournament is going to change that.

I repeat, the turning point was whether Janne could be a bigger man than Summanen (if the accusations turn out be true). He couldn't, and it turned into a messy playground fight. Contrary to what some people seem to think, giving up and making a scene wasn't the gutsy move. A real show of character would have been to take the heat and turn the other cheek. If only for the good of the team, and for the duration of the tournament.

 

[broman]

A Canadian take on the situation by columnist Bob McKenzie at TSN. Emphasis is mine:

Finland came away with a tough 2-1 win against Germany on Monday, but another dramatic story that came out of the World Cup was Finnish defenceman Janne Niinimaa walking out on his team citing a 'coaching conflict' with bench boss Raimo Summanen.

Now most of us remember Summanen as the former Edmonton Oiler who played with a quiet, workman-like demeanour. But as a head coach in the Finnish Elite League and Finland's national team, he's become a version of Scotty Bowman, Mike Keenan and Glen Sather. He brings with him that in-your-face, hard and demanding style.

That being said, he hasn't gotten along with Niinimaa. When the Finnish team was being selected, Summanen wanted blueliner Jere Karalahti and Niinimaa was left off the initial roster.

The National Hockey League then ruled that because he was a suspended player, Karalahti was out. Niinimaa was chosen and went into it with reservations, but no matter what you do (and any Canadian hockey fan will tell you this), you don't walk out and quit on your team - your national team - in the middle of any international event. It's something that you will never really recover from.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.asp?id=97831

 

[broman]

Posters at jatkoaika.com, a Finnish hockey BBS, are claiming Team Finland players were spotted in a downtown restaurant on Saturday night as well, after they successfully held Sweden to a tie. The first players are said to have shown up as early as one hour after the game.

Now this is unconfirmed rumours if any, but if (a big if) there's a hint of truth in that, it might explain some of coach Summanen's "feedback". Not that it would justify going to extremes, but it's something to consider.

It was just four years ago under former head coach Aravirta that three Team Finland players went out on a drinking binge at Worlds in St. Petersburg. The team went on to crash out against Slovakia, who met the Czechs in the finals.

Edit: as early as

 

[CREW99AW]

Posters at jatkoaika.com, a Finnish hockey BBS, are claiming Team Finland players were spotted in a downtown restaurant on Saturday night as well, after they successfully held Sweden to a tie. The first players are said to have shown up as early as one hour after the game.

Now this is unconfirmed rumours if any, but if (a big if) there's a hint of truth in that, it might explain some of coach Summanen's "feedback". Not that it would justify going to extremes, but it's something to consider.

It was just four years ago under former head coach Aravirta that three Team Finland players went out on a drinking binge at Worlds in St. Petersburg. The team went on to crash out against Slovakia, who met the Czechs in the finals.

Edit: as early as

They showed up at the restaurant after the game correct?
Did they blow off a postgame team meeting or postgame press interviews?
Is there a team curfew they ignored?

 

[Pepper]

Oh boy, here we go again. OK, here are the exact quotes from Pepper:

"If the Aamulehti story is true, 3 other finnish players are close to leaving the team as well. Poor game against Germany and this whole thing will explode like a nuclear bomb."

And in the next post:

"They are still on the team but very close to leaving it and that will show in their performance if true. Aamulehti is very close to certain Tampere-region players (Numminen, Nieminen, Lydman) and they are not your usual yellow-press rumormongers unlike papers like Veikkaaja or Urheilulehti."

Notice the symmetry: three and three. If that was unintentional, here's a simple rule for the future. If you don't know any names, don't name any names. You don't get any words in your mouth. We'll all be spared from lots of trouble.

Whoa, maybe you should stop making hasty conclusions without actually thinking it through first? I think it was pretty obvious that Aamulehti is close to those players mentioned who are THE SOURCES, not the players who were ready to quit. Aamulehti is a tampere-based newspaper with close ties to tampere-based players and I just listed those players in parenthesis.

You should have stopped there for a second and wondered why only the tampere-based players are close to leaving the team but I guess the thought didn't cross your mind.

And I really suggest you tune down your aggressiviness here, it's starting to get slightly irritating to read your posts.

 

[Pepper]

It's just getting worse and worse with every passing day. Now the yellow press are enjoying the latest turn of events. The source is Ilta-Sanomat.

Fresh out of Team Finland duties, Janne Niinimaa arranged a rowdy party at his penthouse flat in Helsinki city centre on Monday night after the Germany game. The neighbours were not amused. Of Team Finland cornerstone players, at least Miikka Kiprusoff showed up for the good time. The party went on until the morning hours. The team was scheduled to take the flight to North America before noon on Tuesday.

Honestly, I am not sure what to make of this. It seems like the two sides of this clash are preparing for the ultimate confrontation after the tournament is over, and making the most of their press connections while at it. Interestingly, the MTV3/Iltalehti/Aamulehti media group looks strongly pro-Niinimaa, while the dominant Sanoma group is showing signs of support for Summanen. I think there's going to be plenty of mud-slinging before we are through with this.

You really love controversies don't you? Both Ilta-Sanomat and Iltalehti have said the same thing from the start because they have access to inside information, they know what kind of person Summanen is better than most (well atleast better than you as you have admitted you rely on public material here). Btw, I really how you seem to imply that Niinimaa or 'his side' called the reporters to cover the party they were holding on sunday

The media supports Niinimaa, the players support Niinimaa, large majority of finnish hockey fans support Niinimaa (based on opinions represented at several hockey forums) and the 'hockey people' support Niinimaa.

The only friend Summanen has is Kummola and even he is forced to play a role because the tournament isn't over yet.

Btw, notice how Niinimaa has pretty much remained silent whereas Summanen himself has made several comments in the public about Janne since the incident? Great way to improve the already great team spirit shown in the game against Germany

 

[weetabix]

maybe so.

because they have access to inside information, they know what kind of person Summanen is better than most

The media supports Niinimaa, the players support Niinimaa, large majority of finnish hockey fans support Niinimaa (based on opinions represented at several hockey forums) and the 'hockey people' support Niinimaa.

The only friend Summanen has is Kummola and even he is forced to play a role because the tournament isn't over yet.

That may be so and I personally also am in "side of Niinimaa", but only in sense that whatever the Summanen did will be handled after the tournament. If Summanen is not good with people or press, I dont care at this point. After the tournament it is different thing alltogether, but for now it doesn't matter.

This whole thing is pointless now to be handled, because it doesn't make our team better. I have to agree to that point that Niinimaa should have kept his mouth shut and should have asked to be scratched. This whole fuss could have been handled after the tournament.

 

[broman]

They showed up at the restaurant after the game correct?
Did they blow off a postgame team meeting or postgame press interviews?
Is there a team curfew they ignored?

I think ordinarily you would expect that athletes are busy with post-game cooldown at that hour. The last I heard, the recommendation was that you do long stretches 1,5-2 hours after exercise. Put this together with the lackluster performance v Germany and you get the idea. But it could have been the guys who weren't dressing for the game, I wouldn't know.

Edit: Or maybe they did their stretching in the bar.

 

[broman]

Whoa, maybe you should stop making hasty conclusions without actually thinking it through first? I think it was pretty obvious that Aamulehti is close to those players mentioned who are THE SOURCES, not the players who were ready to quit. Aamulehti is a tampere-based newspaper with close ties to tampere-based players and I just listed those players in parenthesis.

You should have stopped there for a second and wondered why only the tampere-based players are close to leaving the team but I guess the thought didn't cross your mind.

And I really suggest you tune down your aggressiviness here, it's starting to get slightly irritating to read your posts.

I honestly don't get what's so "pretty obvious" in what you're saying. Also I don't get it why a player like Numminen would go blabbering to journalists about a teammate having a grudge. Quite the opposite, I would think he considers it the teammate's business. These are grown-up professionals were talking about. Every man talks for himself.

Why wouldn't it be an isolated clique within the team, perhaps childhood friends, that's so desperate that they are considering leaving (an extreme act if any)? If you ask me, that's exactly what I would expect.

So now you're calling me aggressive? After first questioning my intelligence, calling me Summanen's mom and whatnot, screaming in CAPITALS, all just because I am not agreeing with you and in awe of your superior knowledge and inside connections? Whew.

 

[broman]

You really love controversies don't you? Both Ilta-Sanomat and Iltalehti have said the same thing from the start because they have access to inside information, they know what kind of person Summanen is better than most (well atleast better than you as you have admitted you rely on public material here). Btw, I really how you seem to imply that Niinimaa or 'his side' called the reporters to cover the party they were holding on sunday

And your conclusion is? Sure I don't expect Janne would have wanted the reporters crashing the party. Yet Ilta-Sanomat chose to make it frontpage news. I don't get it where you get the "imply" bit.

However competing Iltalehti tabloid that's been rabidly anti-Summanen from day one happened to be around when he was having a beer the day before. No, I don't think that was a coincidence.

If you study the coverage of Ilta-Sanomat, Helsingin Sanomat and Channel Four of Sanoma group closely, you will find how they have focused on the state of the team and the damage that's been done. Explicit calls for Summanen's head have come from Iltalehti camp and (more moderately) MTV3. Not to mention your beloved Aamulehti who obviously have an agenda of their own.

Have you noticed how voices of reason have started to surface after the initial storm? Check out the interviews with former players Mika Kortelainen and Mika Nieminen, in Iltalehti and MTV3 respectively. Both long-time veterans, both with recent first-hand experience of Summanen as a coach. Yes, they agree he can blow his lid big time, even go into personal issues. But no, it wasn't anything they couldn't have overcome, or anything much out of the ordinary really. The man was regarded a passionate, successful coach. Nieminen even goes to say he was in his best fit ever under Summanen.

Oh BTW, I gotta love your subtle attempts of showing off your own superiority. "Admitted you rely on public material?!" Excellent stuff. We salute you.

 

[Pepper]

I honestly don't get what's so "pretty obvious" in what you're saying. Also I don't get it why a player like Numminen would go blabbering to journalists about a teammate having a grudge. Quite the opposite, I would think he considers it the teammate's business. These are grown-up professionals were talking about. Every man talks for himself.

You really don't understand the relationship between long-time hockey journalists and players. You make assumptions, conclusions and opinions, you simply lack the factual knowledge.

Why wouldn't it be an isolated clique within the team, perhaps childhood friends, that's so desperate that they are considering leaving (an extreme act if any)? If you ask me, that's exactly what I would expect.

So you think Numminen, Lydman and Nieminen are childhood friends? oookay...

 

[broman]

You really don't understand the relationship between long-time hockey journalists and players. You make assumptions, conclusions and opinions, you simply lack the factual knowledge.

Whereas you yourself are busy enlightening our lives with "factual knowledge", as opposed to rumours, hints and allegations.

So you think Numminen, Lydman and Nieminen are childhood friends? oookay...

Bad choice of words. Should have said: perhaps players from the same town. But you get the idea, it's just that you choose to ignore it.

 

[Pepper]

And your conclusion is? Sure I don't expect Janne would have wanted the reporters crashing the party. Yet Ilta-Sanomat chose to make it frontpage news. I don't get it where you get the "imply" bit.

Yes, why did Ilta-Sanomat make it a frontpage news? Because they are pro-Summanen?

However competing Iltalehti tabloid that's been rabidly anti-Summanen from day one happened to be around when he was having a beer the day before. No, I don't think that was a coincidence.

Are you sure the journalist was there in person or simply talked with him on the phone? Oh and if they were pro-Niinimaa they probably wouldn't want to spread that 'having a beer' -bit too much, people draw wrong conclusions so easily.

If you study the coverage of Ilta-Sanomat, Helsingin Sanomat and Channel Four of Sanoma group closely, you will find how they have focused on the state of the team and the damage that's been done. Explicit calls for Summanen's head have come from Iltalehti camp and (more moderately) MTV3. Not to mention your beloved Aamulehti who obviously have an agenda of their own.

This is too rich, you mean Aamulehti is anti-Summanen because they dared to publish reports about widespread problems in the lockerroom?? Oh boy...

Oh BTW, I gotta love your subtle attempts of showing off your own superiority. "Admitted you rely on public material?!" Excellent stuff. We salute you.

Actually I was kinda making fun of your fanatical attempts to defend Summanen despite not having any idea what happened in the lockerroom. I don't need to 'show off my superiority' here in anyway. I just happen to be more informed about these things because of various reasons (my own hockey career, current job, colleagues, friends etc).

But hey, feel free to continue making conculsions based on official PR-releases.

I'm not gonna continue this debate any further, I'll let you have the last word.

 

[broman]

I'm not gonna continue this debate any further, I'll let you have the last word.

That's mighty big of you, I will happily snatch the opportunity.

Honestly it hasn't been much of a debate anyway. If you ever find the time and interest to review your own contributions again you'll notice how you've hardly touched any of the real questions or suggestions that I have posted, just the points and commas (see our latest exchange for a prime sample). Still, what do you expect from a BBS?

On behalf of us both I would like to apologize to any third parties for the drowsiness that leafing through this rant may have caused. Pepper, see you again in more conciliatory terms, perhaps when we are analyzing Finland's WCH championship run together... You can bring your inside sources, I will bring my newspaper clippings.

 

[broman]

Sorry, I have to post this one more "exclusive" courtesy of zone55 at jatkoaika.com. I will get my coat after this. Promise.

The Truth about Penthouse

The guys started preparing for jetlag right away. Janne tortured his stereo all night so that nobody would fall asleep. The guys had Hartsport (=sports drink) together and watched Selanne's rookie video. I mean Teemu had milk but others had Harts. Each and every guy called wife/girlfriend and checked out the latest. Or mom if they didn't have a broad. At the end Janne passed around his fly (=fishing tackle) collection and there was still time for board games.

This is a Fact. I was there.

:lol