Niinimaa out of Team Finland

[broman]

Janne kept his mouth shot, he didn't go to any details, he only said that he has a personal problem with Summanen, nothing else despite lots of pressure from the press to tell the whole story. He said he won't say anything else as long as the tournament was on. To me that's pretty much keeping his mouth shut, it's not like he can simply disappear without saying anything.

As said, this is where we disagree. To me reading his exact words in every yellow press tabloid and associated TV channel doesn't qualify as "keeping his mouth shut".

They are still on the team but very close to leaving it and that will show in their performance if true. Aamulehti is very close to certain Tampere-region players (Numminen, Nieminen, Lydman) and they are not your usual yellow-press rumormongers unlike papers like Veikkaaja or Urheilulehti. Should be reach for the panic button? Hell no, it's much easier for Kummola to press Summanen's "shut the **** up" -button.

So when it's Aamulehti printing unsubstantiated rumours, they are of higher value then? So when Tampere-based players give a half-hearted performance for their country, it's OK cause they don't like the coach? Get real. Who are you anyway, the mayor of Tampere? Second coming of Simo Frangen?

In case you haven't noticed, shutting up is exactly what Summanen has done. Which can't be said about Niinimaa.

 

[Arne]

Karalahti better than Niinimaa? LMAO, for the love god give me a break.

Karalahti has a good shot and hits well and that's it. He's not a good skater, he misses his big hits more often than not, he takes stupid penalties, is lost against faster d-men and generally overrated.

For the love of god Karalahti is a good d-man. If I wold have to pick either Karalahti or Niinimaa, it would be a hard choice.

 

[Padawan]

Karalahti better than Niinimaa? LMAO, for the love god give me a break.

Summanen seems to think that way. When both are in their prime I'd say that Karalahti fits Summanen's playing style better. True, Karalahti has been known to take stupid penalties. Niinimaa has been blaimed of weak performances. They have different qualities where they are better than the other so it's actually hard to say which player is the better one overall. I'd say Karalahti is a bit better player.

Then again, Niinimaa has been a better person off the ice imo and that too affects the team so I can't really say considering off the ice personalities.

 

[Pepper]

As said, this is where we disagree. To me reading his exact words in every yellow press tabloid and associated TV channel doesn't qualify as "keeping his mouth shut".

He said he had a personal problem with Summanen - NOTHING ELSE! He didn't say anything about what Summanen had said/yelled/screamed at him, not a word.

That's the shortest possible comment you can possible give without lying. They had to say SOMETHING.

Besides, it was the PR-release of finnish team which first mentioned the personal problems, not Niinimaa.

So when it's Aamulehti printing unsubstantiated rumours, they are of higher value then? So when Tampere-based players give a half-hearted performance for their country, it's OK cause they don't like the coach? Get real. Who are you anyway, the mayor of Tampere? Second coming of Simo Frangen?

In case you haven't noticed, shutting up is exactly what Summanen has done. Which can't be said about Niinimaa.

Aamulehti has a reputation of being better informed about the inside talk around Team Finland. They have a reputation of not making up stories which Veikkaaja and some other papers do.

And shutting up is exactly NOT what Summanen has done, if he had shut up or atleast remained civil there wouldn't be any problem here.

 

[Pepper]

Niinimaa is easily the better d-man of the two and it's not even close, hell Karalahti is not even the best d-man in his own club team!

And this coming from a HIFK season-ticket holder.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Veikkaaja was good, but worse than Aamulehti.
Then it became IS:Veikkaaja.. and it's become as bad as 7 päivää or The Sun

Rather than compare Niinimaa to Karalahti, I'd compare Niinimaa to Berg. I can see a reason for wanting Jere in the team.. but Aki???
If I was Niinimaa, I'd be peewed that Aki makes any team ahead of me.

 

[High flyin' Habs*]

Niinimaa is easily the better d-man of the two and it's not even close, hell Karalahti is not even the best d-man in his own club team!

And this coming from a HIFK season-ticket holder.

Right on!

 

[Padawan]

Selänne just said in an interview that the Team Finland stands behind Niinimaa's decision. This might indicate that Summanen is history after this tournament.

 

[Arne]

Niinimaa is easily the better d-man of the two and it's not even close, hell Karalahti is not even the best d-man in his own club team!

And this coming from a HIFK season-ticket holder.[/QUOTE

"He is not even the best d-man in his own club team" Are you Hannu Aravirta?
I think Summanen knows how good Karalahti is. Then whos the best d-man in HIFK?
Anyway, Niinimaa is a big loss and couldn't be replaced even by Karalahti but Karalahti is not bad d-man. I mean, think about that ****ing Berg?

 

[broman]

Are you intentionally trying to be stupid or what? Aamulehti has a reputation of being better informed about the inside talk around Team Finland. They have a reputation of not making up stories which Veikkaaja and some other papers do.

Would you care to elaborate? You are acting as if it's a given fact that Aamulehti wouldn't print a false rumour, or one that they haven't been able to confirm independently. Well excuse me but I find no grounds whatsoever for an assumption such as that. Why should I? Since when has Aamulehti become the official source of truth in the nation? It may be if you are from Tampere and like to view things with a local bias, but don't try pushing it down the throats of others. It's a paper just like every other, written by editors who are human just like the rest of us. With human priorities, sometimes even hidden motives.

Let's review the facts. We have a coach who's led the team to first place in Euro group with no defeats. We are within a cat's whisker of a trip to St. Paul, while either Swedes or Czechs are guaranteed to be home watching the finals in the telly. With the possible exception of SH defence, the team are playing like angels. The country is exstatic.

In the other corner we have a single player sore from the cold shoulder he's received from the coach. He used to have the world at his feet, the young star that he was, but over the past two years he's been in something of a decline. He wasn't a first choice and has been bitter about it ever since. He shows up and performs adequately at best. The coach yells at him for not producing the goods. He tells the coach to shove it and packs his bags. The yellow press starts screaming for crisis. A trigger-happy hockey suit with the sensitivity of a rhinoceros starts dropping ominous hints. Meanwhile, the playoffs are about to get started.

So excuse me if I won't join the bandwagon.

 

[Pepper]

I rate them like this:

Niinimaa > Karalahti > Bruce Driver > 43 year old Dave Babych > Kevin Hatcher after his latest knee injury > > > Aki Berg

EDIT: Personally I think Toni Söderholm is better than Karalahti.

 

[Pepper]

Would you care to elaborate? You are acting as if it's a given fact that Aamulehti wouldn't print a false rumour, or one that they haven't been able to confirm independently.

No, I said that Aamulehti has a good reputation, it doesn't print empty rumors. I never said it's a fact.

Since when has Aamulehti become the official source of truth in the nation? It may be if you are from Tampere and like to view things with a local bias, but don't try pushing it down the throats of others.

I never said Aamulehti is the ultimate or official truth, I said there's a good chance that it is correct however given the good reputation of the paper and the close connections to Tampere-based players.

I have never lived in Tampere, I've lived all my life in Espoo and Helsinki. Get a grip.

Let's review the facts. We have a coach who's led the team to first place in Euro group with no defeats. We are within a cat's whisker of a trip to St. Paul, while either Swedes or Czechs are guaranteed to be home watching the finals in the telly. With the possible exception of SH defence, the team are playing like angels. The country is exstatic.

Yes, let's review the facts. When he didn't have Kipper he was out of the inferior World Championships in quarter-finals, so far the single biggest reason for Team Finland's success is Kipper, not Summanen or his stupid decisions such as playing Berg instead of Väänänen.

So far Summanen has done nothing to impress me.

Did you hear Selänne? "The team stands behind Niinimaa's decision"

Looks like Niinimaa wasn't the only one who's having problems with Summanen, still think that Aamulehti was wrong? Not to mention the fact that sponsors of the national team have demanded Summanen to get fired? When was the last time that happened? Speaks volumes about Summanen's personal skills.

 

[broman]

Interviewed by YLE, captain Saku Koivu is annoyed by the fuss caused by Niinimaa's departure and the mulling of the reasons behind it right before a key match.

There's nothing positive in this mess and it is something we would have cared to avoid, he says. What's happened has happened. Myself and the team must focus on the game vs Germany now.

Everything's OK in the team. What happened between Summanen and Niinimaa is their business, Koivu continues.

Working in a team of 30-40 people you can't get along with everyone. Summanen has the support of the entire team, Koivu assures.

In the same interview, coach Summanen says he is disappointed with Janne's decision. His departure was a surprise. A player doesn't play for the coach, but for the team. Apparently the team didn't mean that much to him. At his best he played OK hockey.

The state of the team is reflected by the way it plays. Excluding the Sweden game, the team has played in line with the pre-laid plan. You don't get results like this if all the pieces don't fit together. There is a good fighting atmosphere in the team, Summanen says.

Source:
http://ww2.yle.fi/pls/show/frameUrheilu?id=257064

So there.

 

[mcphee]

I admit to not knowing a lot about Finnish hockey. I appreciate the Finns in the NHL and being a Montreal fan, obviously think the world of Koivu. I say the above because I don't really know the history of some of these people. I'm very surprised by how easy all of you are on Janne Niinimaa. I believe that in a team sport, your first responsibility is to your teammates, and Janne has walked out on his. Would it be unfair for him to carry the label of 'quitter' from now on ? without facts, it is all excuses.

 

[Pepper]

If there's one player who's not a quitter it's Janne.

He left the team because he didn't want to cause any more problems with his personal conflict with Summanen.

Niinimaa placed team above himself, he has always been the ultimate teamplayer who's very down to earth and level-headed.

Selänne's words speak volumes: "the team stands behind Niinimaa's decision"

Koivu's speech was more or less the usual "We trust Summanen blah blah blah", there really was nothing else he could have said as the Captain.

 

[broman]

I admit to not knowing a lot about Finnish hockey. I appreciate the Finns in the NHL and being a Montreal fan, obviously think the world of Koivu. I say the above because I don't really know the history of some of these people. I'm very surprised by how easy all of you are on Janne Niinimaa. I believe that in a team sport, your first responsibility is to your teammates, and Janne has walked out on his. Would it be unfair for him to carry the label of 'quitter' from now on ? without facts, it is all excuses.

As said, this is Finland. Myself I can understand the common man siding with Janne, everyone's had a boss they didn't like and who they'd liked to have told to shove it, although of course never dared in his face.

However anyone with a modicum of hockey knowledge should see the team issue first and foremost. There's is absolutely nothing Team Finland could possibly gain from this all as far as World Cup is concerned. The not-so-subtle remarks by Koivu and Summanen tell the whole story.

 

[Pepper]

However anyone with a modicum of hockey knowledge should see the team issue first and foremost. There's is absolutely nothing Team Finland could possibly gain from this all as far as World Cup is concerned. The not-so-subtle remarks by Koivu and Summanen tell the whole story.

If you only knew what the hockey circles are saying about this whole ordeal.

The word is that it was only a matter of time before Summanen went too far, it has never been a question of "if" but a question of "when".

Oh and it was those 'no-so-subtle remarks' by Summanen which started this whole ordeal.

Mcphee, the coach we're talking about has attacked journalists several times, trashed a whole lockerroom after a bad period, assaulted a member of finnish hockey federation, has a reputation of a maniac, was in hot water already before the tournament because of his poor behavior with the sponsors of the national team, has made several players leave his teams earlier (T.Ruutu & J.Hentunen from Jokerit for example).

So if you want to believe the official PR-statement "by" (basicly told what to say) Captain Koivu who really can't say anything else without making the situation 10x worse, feel free to do so. Those who have followed the finnish hockey scene long enough know what's the real story.

 

[broman]

Selänne's words speak volumes: "the team stands behind Niinimaa's decision"

Koivu's speech was more or less the usual "We trust Summanen blah blah blah", there really was nothing else he could have said as the Captain.

Considering the timestamp on the YLE piece (3:30 pm) the MTV3 crew must caught Selanne and others off guard early on. It is interesting that MTV3 have withdrawn the comments from their website. At the request of the team? Or have the medias finally seen common sense?

I can understand Teemu feeling sympathy for Janne, he's only recently had his own share of troubles with a hard-nosed old-school coach in Colorado. What is unacceptable is that he went public with his views in the middle of a tournament. He must regret it by now.

As for Koivu, you gotta love the veiled dig. "In a group of 30-40 you can't get along with everyone." Or the one by Summanen himself about "OK hockey". Tough luck for Janne.

Elsewhere, chairman Kummola is finally grasping something resembling common sense. I believe we can find a solution. Too bad that something like this should happen. Let's just take it easy and focus on the tournament, Kummola says at MTV3.

At Channel Four, Kummola goes a step further. We knew that Summanen is a colourful persona, but on top of that he's an excellent coach. Later on he must pay more attention to maintaining mutual trust between the coach and the players, Kummola states.

What does this mean? Well it's not like Summanen facing the sack, if you ask me. Which is good news if any. Common sense will prevail after all.

 

[mcphee]

If you only knew what the hockey circles are saying about this whole ordeal.

The word is that it was only a matter of time before Summanen went too far, it has never been a question of "if" but a question of "when".

Oh and it was those 'no-so-subtle remarks' by Summanen which started this whole ordeal.

Mcphee, the coach we're talking about has attacked journalists several times, trashed a whole lockerroom after a bad period, assaulted a member of finnish hockey federation, has a reputation of a maniac, was in hot water already before the tournament because of his poor behavior with the sponsors of the national team, has made several players leave his teams earlier (T.Ruutu & J.Hentunen from Jokerit for example).

So if you want to believe the official PR-statement "by" (basicly told what to say) Captain Koivu who really can't say anything else without making the situation 10x worse, feel free to do so. Those who have followed the finnish hockey scene long enough know what's the real story.

Your coach sounds like a pleasant guy. Still, there have been many cases where a coach 'loses' a team and the players unify and win in spite of him. Niinimaa punished his teammates during a tournament. No matter what is said, I'd have a hard time with that.

 

[Fincan]

Mostly because Karalahti is actually a better player than Niinimaa though not very much imo.QUOTE]

HA!!! LMAO. I would take Niinimaa when he is on his game over any Finnsih Dman except for Pitkanen (but this is based on upside, not current level of play). Yes Niinimaa had an off year by his standards, but calling Karalahti a BETTER PLAYER is laughable.

 

[Eds]

I'd take Timonen over Niinimaa any given day...in fact, judging only by what I've seen of him in international games during the last couple of years (I don't have much opportunities to watch NHL games), I'd hardly take Niinimaa at all. But still, things like these don't usually much help the team, so it's very hard to find anything positive in this, especially as Pitkänen still doesn't get to play.

 

[Padawan]

Mostly because Karalahti is actually a better player than Niinimaa though not very much imo.

HA!!! LMAO. I would take Niinimaa when he is on his game over any Finnsih Dman except for Pitkanen (but this is based on upside, not current level of play). Yes Niinimaa had an off year by his standards, but calling Karalahti a BETTER PLAYER is laughable.

Team Finland head coach seems to think like myself too. I guess you have better hockey sense than he does.

 

[Fincan]

Team Finland head coach seems to think like myself too. I guess you have better hockey sense than he does.

I guess so

 

[Pepper]

Team Finland head coach seems to think like myself too. I guess you have better hockey sense than he does.

The same coach who played Berg instead of Väänänen?? The same coach who considered AJ Niemi as a replacement for Karalahti? The same coach who's currently involved in one of the biggest Team Finland scandals since Alpo Suhonen quit the team?

Yeah right, after all these stunts I don't trust his judgement at all.

 

[MeN_Ace2]

Fact's remain: Niinimaa quit on his TEAM-MATES, not on Summanen.

Can any of you see for example Koivu EVER doing something similar at this stage of the tournament?

Niinimaa is forever labeled as a "quitter" in my book. He gave up on his team-mates at a crucial stage of the tournament instead of sucking it up, and giving what his got and keeping his mouth shut.

Janne needs to grow some thicker skin if he wants his career to be turned the other direction again. After wacthing a season of him in the Islanders I sometimes wonder what happened to the play he displayed in Edmonton and Nagano 98'.