Confirmed with Link: Nicolas Deslauriers contract with Flyers, 4 x 1.75AAV

[GKJ]

Click to read more...

 

[Flyerfan4life]

If the talent to only be a middle/bottom sixer is there, then years of lost development that squanders necessary skills for the NHL isn't going to be overcome. There's a reason why the Flyers can only succeed with the players who were too good to fail and can't manage to reliably produce anything else while other teams can.

stanley cup wining NAK says hello..

 

[Beef Invictus]

stanley cup wining NAK says hello..

Yeah, the guy whose career is probably dead if a smart team doesn't grab him on waivers.

One wonders what other useful players were crushed by the team

 

[deadhead]

stanley cup wining NAK says hello..

Discarded forward NAK says hello, so his money could be used on a 35 year old scrub forward.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If the talent to only be a middle/bottom sixer is there, then years of lost development that squanders necessary skills for the NHL isn't going to be overcome. There's a reason why the Flyers can only succeed with the players who were too good to fail and can't manage to reliably produce anything else while other teams can.

It is a mixture of both being bad at drafting and development. Not 1 player they didn't "develop" has gone anywhere to produce anything significant in the last decade or so.

Yeah, the guy whose career is probably dead if a smart team doesn't grab him on waivers.

One wonders what other useful players were crushed by the team

One also wonders why they drafted players who didn't have the talent.

Do you not find it odd at all that all these guys the Flyers didn't "develop" didn't go anywhere to amount to anything?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It is a mixture of both being bad at drafting and development. Not 1 player they didn't "develop" has gone anywhere to produce anything significant in the last decade or so.


One also wonders why they drafted players who didn't have the talent.

Do you not find it odd at all that all these guys the Flyers didn't "develop" didn't go anywhere to amount to anything?

They're not going to amount to anything after years of the Flyers developing away all necessary skills in favor of "safe" grinding. They're ruined.

The Flyers draft classes were widely regarded as obviously talented at the time they were drafted and they were all turned into mush. Even the "successes" in TK, Sanheim, and Provorov have all fallen short of expectations in some way for various reasons, many not remotely their fault.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They're not going to amount to anything after years of the Flyers developing away all necessary skills in favor of "safe" grinding. They're ruined.

The Flyers draft classes were widely regarded as obviously talented at the time they were drafted and they were all turned into mush. Even the "successes" in TK, Sanheim, and Provorov have all fallen short of expectations in some way for various reasons, many not remotely their fault.

Not a single one went elsewhere to carve any success. Seems to me it is the drafting is the bigger issue.

If you have the talent you will overcome the bad development if you leave. None have. Not buying the they ruined him angle as much as you push it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Discarded forward NAK says hello, so his money could be used on a 35 year old scrub forward.

Helm and Cogliano were useful players on a Cup winning team, which is why Colorado kept them. Obviously you have zero idea what a Cup winning roster looks like if you think they are equivalent to an actual scrub like MacEwen who would never get near a regular lineup spot on a team like the Avs.

Cogliano - 16 points in 64 regular season games, 6 points in 16 playoff games
Helm - 15 points in 68 regular season games, 5 points in 20 playoff games




MacEwen - 9 points in SEVENTY FIVE regular season games

 

[BringBackHakstol]

MacEwen is total trash

 

[flyersnorth]

We didn't have the players that would make sense in that kind of deal.
Why would you trade Farabee (22) and ??? (have to match cap and value) for Tkachuk (24) if you're rebuilding?

That's not remotely what Florida did. They traded two highly talented players, who were older, and who are on expiring contracts.

So they basically extended their window and replaced an aging Huberdeau with Tkachuk.

The Flyers would have had that opportunity - trading Ristolainen, trading Couturier prior to the extension, trading Giroux maybe a season sooner.

Before the "well the Flyers were coming off a great stretch of play and playoffs" counter, Florida just came off an incredible season and traded their top player and a top 2 defenseman.

Neither Fletch nor Hextall were particularly creative GMs when it came to team building. Hence why we've been cellar dwellers for a decade.

If the Flyers are intent on not rebuilding through the draft, they have to find creative ways of landing top talent. Is DeAngelo top talent? That was certainly a move - too bad it was for a polarizing player, but there's no doubt he's talented.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Helm and Cogliano were useful players on a Cup winning team, which is why Colorado kept them. Obviously you have zero idea what a Cup winning roster looks like if you think they are equivalent to an actual scrub like MacEwen who would never get near a regular lineup spot on a team like the Avs.

Cogliano - 16 points in 64 regular season games, 6 points in 16 playoff games
Helm - 15 points in 68 regular season games, 5 points in 20 playoff games




MacEwen - 9 points in SEVENTY FIVE regular season games

Yeah but did they play with Makar?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not a single one went elsewhere to carve any success. Seems to me it is the drafting is the bigger issue.

If you have the talent you will overcome the bad development if you leave. None have. Not buying the they ruined him angle as much as you push it.

Yes, none of them become anything else because the Flyers ruined them so badly. I keep saying that. Why would other teams spend years repairing a player when they can draft someone who hasn't had the offense slammed out of them in favor of "safety?"

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Yes, none of them become anything else because the Flyers ruined them so badly. I keep saying that. Why would other teams spend years repairing a player when they can draft someone who hasn't had the offense slammed out of them in favor of "safety?"

didnt the Avs flat out say. they had to retrain NAK...

???

 

[deadhead]

Helm and Cogliano were useful players on a Cup winning team, which is why Colorado kept them. Obviously you have zero idea what a Cup winning roster looks like if you think they are equivalent to an actual scrub like MacEwen who would never get near a regular lineup spot on a team like the Avs.

Cogliano - 16 points in 64 regular season games, 6 points in 16 playoff games
Helm - 15 points in 68 regular season games, 5 points in 20 playoff games




MacEwen - 9 points in SEVENTY FIVE regular season games

Cogliano is a scrub. Put him on the Flyers last season and he'd look bad, not as bad as MacEwen, but still bad.
Yet the Avs preferred to keep him over NAK, who one would think has more upside.

Last four years, pp/60: 1.06, 1.17, 0.82, 0.86, xGFrel +3.16, -3.38, -1.08, -4.88

Helm at least has plus speed and is a proven defensive center. But he also is a subpar offensive player
last four years, pp/60: 1.04, 1.05, 0.72, 1.15, xGFrel +0.28, +3.55, +0.41, -6.48

If Fletcher obtained either one of these players, the gnashing of teeth would never end!

Deslauriers
Last four years, pp/60: 0.52, 1.39, 0.89, 0.81, xGFrel -5.06, -4.07, -7.09, -6.62

MacEwen lsat yar pp/60: 0.76, xGFrel -7.82

Frankly, I wouldn't want any of these four on my team, maybe Helm, but only if I had two 4th line wings that could carry him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Stats being used across teams again.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah but did they play with Makar?

15 of Cogliano's 16 points came in San Jose, but I'm sure Makar helped somehow.

 

[Curufinwe]

Cogliano is a scrub. Put him on the Flyers last season and he'd look bad, not as bad as MacEwen, but still bad.

Cogliano scored 15 points in 56 games on the San Jose Sharks, who only scored 2.57 goals per game. The Flyers scored 2.56 goals per game. If Fletcher had acquired him instead of Nate Thompson in free agency a year ago there would have been rejoicing, and the Flyers 4th line wouldn't have been the worst 4th line in the league.

Cogliano also would have helped the Flyers PK much more than Thompson did, and for only $200,000 more. That is where he has more value than NAK, as a very useful penalty killer. On the Sharks he averaged the most SH/TOI of any forward until he was traded, and they had the league's 4th= best Net PK%.

Preview/Lines #61: Penalty Kill Has Been Sharks’ “Backbone”

It’s probably bad luck to talk about how good the San Jose Sharks’ penalty kill has been with Cale Makar and Nathan MacKinnon coming into town. But the Sharks have given up just two power play goals since the All-Star break – even including yesterday’s Anze Kopitar strike. They’ve killed...

sanjosehockeynow.com

It's equal parts amazing and embarrassing that you did not know that this "scrub" you keep talking about as if you know all about him, is actually one of the league's better penalty killers. If you had watched any of the Avs playoff games you would have surely noticed him and Helm out there more than any other Colorado forwards as they racked up a very solid Net PK% of 83.9. NAK didn't get a second of SH TOI. That's why they kept the old guys, so give that ignorant narrative a rest and move on to your next piece of clueless fan fiction.

 

[deadhead]

Cogliano scored 15 points in 56 games on the San Jose Sharks, who only scored 2.57 goals per game. The Flyers scored 2.56 goals per game. If Fletcher had acquired him instead of Nate Thompson in free agency a year ago there would have been rejoicing, and the Flyers 4th line wouldn't have been the worst 4th line in the league.

Cogliano also would have helped the Flyers PK much more than Thompson did, and for only $200,000 more. That is where he has more value than NAK, as a very useful penalty killer. On the Sharks he averaged the most SH/TOI of any forward until he was traded, and they had the league's 4th= best Net PK%.

Preview/Lines #61: Penalty Kill Has Been Sharks’ “Backbone”

It’s probably bad luck to talk about how good the San Jose Sharks’ penalty kill has been with Cale Makar and Nathan MacKinnon coming into town. But the Sharks have given up just two power play goals since the All-Star break – even including yesterday’s Anze Kopitar strike. They’ve killed...

sanjosehockeynow.com

It's equal parts amazing and embarrassing that you did not know that this "scrub" you keep talking about as if you know all about him, is actually one of the league's better penalty killers. If you had watched any of the Avs playoff games you would have surely noticed him and Helm out there more than any other Colorado forwards as they racked up a very solid Net PK% of 83.9. NAK didn't get a second of SH TOI. That's why they kept the old guys, so give that ignorant narrative a rest and move on to your next piece of clueless fan fiction.

He's still a scrub. Exactly the kind of player people around here like to whine about.
"Why are we adding some veteran who can't score and not playing a more skilled prospect?"

Yes, he'd be better than Thompson at 35, but he's what Thompson was at 32-34, we just got him past his expiration date.
Thompson was traded twice at the TDL in those years b/c of his value as a 4C/PK guy.

The Avs are taking the same chance with Cogliano that we took with Thompson, is there anything left?
Helm is a better bet to age like PEB.
The fact they'd rather gamble on Cogliano than teach NAK how to PK tells you all you need to know about NAK - because his physical skills should translate to an elite PK guy.

 

[sauce88]

He's still a scrub. Exactly the kind of player people around here like to whine about.
"Why are we adding some veteran who can't score and not playing a more skilled prospect?"

Yes, he'd be better than Thompson at 35, but he's what Thompson was at 32-34, we just got him past his expiration date.
Thompson was traded twice at the TDL in those years b/c of his value as a 4C/PK guy.

The Avs are taking the same chance with Cogliano that we took with Thompson, is there anything left?
Helm is a better bet to age like PEB.
The fact they'd rather gamble on Cogliano than teach NAK how to PK tells you all you need to know about NAK - because his physical skills should translate to an elite PK guy.

Cogliano blows Thompson out of the water when it comes to the PK. Again, it's not gambling playing Cogliano on the PK. Gambling (or throwing money away) is the Deslaurier contract.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He's still a scrub. Exactly the kind of player people around here like to whine about.
"Why are we adding some veteran who can't score and not playing a more skilled prospect?"

Yes, he'd be better than Thompson at 35, but he's what Thompson was at 32-34, we just got him past his expiration date.
Thompson was traded twice at the TDL in those years b/c of his value as a 4C/PK guy.

The Avs are taking the same chance with Cogliano that we took with Thompson, is there anything left?
Helm is a better bet to age like PEB.
The fact they'd rather gamble on Cogliano than teach NAK how to PK tells you all you need to know about NAK - because his physical skills should translate to an elite PK guy.

without a doubt.

Also Cogliano much much better than Nate.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

There’s zero question that the vast majority here would have excoriated the Flyers for acquiring Cogliano in any of the last four seasons or so.

 

[deadhead]

without a doubt.

Also Cogliano much much better than Nate.

People think of the Thompson who played on the Flyers, before he came here he was very similar to Cogliano, if he was as bad as people think he was, he wouldn't have started for 10 years in the NHL - for one thing, he doesn't fight.

We just got him a year late.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

People think of the Thompson who played on the Flyers, before he came here he was very similar to Cogliano, if he was as bad as people think he was, he wouldn't have started for 10 years in the NHL - for one thing, he doesn't fight.

We just got him a year late.

Nate Thompson had no attributes on par with Cogliano's skating ability. A trait that will always play in this league.

Thompson filled an organizational role of a mucker on the fourth line because they can't imagine having anything other then slop on the fourth line to "play the hard minutes."

 

[JojoTheWhale]

People think of the Thompson who played on the Flyers, before he came here he was very similar to Cogliano, if he was as bad as people think he was, he wouldn't have started for 10 years in the NHL - for one thing, he doesn't fight.

We just got him a year late.

I don't have time to flesh this out right now, but I have previously looked into those end of bench Colorado Forwards. Both Cogliano and Thompson were negatives offensively. I don't remember if one was significantly worse than the other.

The way I read the data I had available, I would categorize Cogliano as a strong positive from a defensive threat standpoint at 5v5.

Thompson when he was acquired by the Flyers was a roughly average NHL effective defender whose strengths laid along the lines of the traditional 4C archetype. I cannot imagine he got better here, but there's always a chance.

Cogliano also excelled on the PK. Thompson simply existed there.

Basically, you could not pick a better example of the guys and situations that do make sense versus those that don't.

 

[dats81]

Cogliano is a plus skater and capable hockey player, even if he does not produce offense.
Thompson was signed only for being a voice in the locker room and as a role model for younger players.
Is it stupid to sign somebody for intangibles only? Yes, of course.

 

[Rebels57]

Cogliano is a plus skater and capable hockey player, even if he does not produce offense.
Thompson was signed only for being a voice in the locker room and as a role model for younger players.
Is it stupid to sign somebody for intangibles only? Yes, of course.

Gotta love the irony of signing a guy who just a few years ago was showing up to practices under the influence of drugs and alcohol as a role model.