Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[Rapala]

It’s definitely not and it had nothing to do with CC since the numbers changed while CC was still
In the lineup. The argument will just continue to shift until it’s not the same argument anymore as long as whatever the new argument is supports LG’s claim lol.

Cherry Picking at it's best. Miniscule in the grand scheme of things. I think we should pull up Oct-Jan inclusive from the previous season and see what that looks like.

Yeah Yeah Yeah Ducharme.
Suzuki played for that same coach. The reality is he was instrumental in helping Cole get his game on track in the latter part of the season. Just like he was instrumental in helping Dach get his game on track last season.

You said the numbers don’t support my argument. They clearly do.

Not surprisingly, you don’t acknowledge it.

No worries, you keep doing you.

I gave you numbers earlier in this thread that showed just how INSIGNIFICANT the difference was in that SHORT WINDOW. Carry on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Cherry Picking at it's best. Miniscule in the grand scheme of things. I think we should pull up Oct-Jan inclusive from the previous season and see what that looks like.

Yeah Yeah Yeah Ducharme.
Suzuki played for that same coach. The reality is he was instrumental in helping Cole get his game on track in the latter part of the season.

He absolutely was. No doubt about it. MSL was smart enough to put our two best forwards together and it worked. And yeah, I’d definitely give Nick a lot of credit for unlocking CC’s talents that year. It’s a good example of why I think he’s the right choice for captain.

Just like he was instrumental in helping Dach get his game on track last season.

Right again.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I gave you numbers earlier in this thread that showed just how INSIGNIFICANT the difference was in that SHORT WINDOW. Carry on.

It’s not insignificant if it’s used to rebut a false narrative. People have blamed Nick’s slump on other player injuries. I said the slump preceded it and CC was continuing to produce, thus nullifying the excuse. People’s refused to acknowledge it so I produced the numbers again.

People need to stop making excuses.

 

[SlafySZN]

For some reason, Suzuki is clearly not @Lafleurs Guy's favorite player and he thinks Cole Caufield is much better therefore all this discussion how Nick started slumping while Cole was not yet injured and so on...

It was pretty evident also when he suggested that Cole should make more money before Cole signed his extension.

And now this idea that we should move Cole with Dach...

There's a way to appreciate both players IMO.

There's a possibility that Cole becomes the better player down the road but I don't get the constant attempt to put Suzuki down even if done pretty subtle.

I don’t think there’s a problem in asking if Suzuki can be a 1C, or saying he needs consistency, it’s that it seems like some take offense to it and think it’s ‘’putting him down’’.

 

[SlafySZN]

Cherry Picking at it's best. Miniscule in the grand scheme of things. I think we should pull up Oct-Jan inclusive from the previous season and see what that looks like.

Yeah Yeah Yeah Ducharme.
Suzuki played for that same coach. The reality is he was instrumental in helping Cole get his game on track in the latter part of the season. Just like he was instrumental in helping Dach get his game on track last season.


I gave you numbers earlier in this thread that showed just how INSIGNIFICANT the difference was in that SHORT WINDOW. Carry on.

And he wasn’t trending well either with Ducharme. He wouldn’t have had close to 60 points if not him and Cole going PPG for the last 35 games or so.

 

[Rapala]

It’s not insignificant if it’s used to rebut a false narrative. People have blamed Nick’s slump on other player injuries. I said the slump preceded it and CC was continuing to produce, thus nullifying the excuse. People’s refused to acknowledge it so I produced the numbers again.

Peoples need to stop making excuses.

CC didn't actually break any scoring records during that window. He put up 15 points in 24 games from the beginning of January to when he got injured Suzuki put of 13 points in that same time frame. Dach goes down and both players PPG goes to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

CC didn't actually break any scoring records during that window. He put up 15 points in 24 games from the beginning of January to when he got injured Suzuki put of 13 points in that same time frame. Dach goes down and both players PPG goes to hell in a hand basket.

Paced for 51 goals. 10 in 16.

Again, Suzuki’s a good player. But he needs to show consistency if we want to count him as our number one. This is not some trivial thing. It goes to the heart of the rebuild question. Do we still need a number one? Right now, I’d say we do.

 

[Rapala]

And he wasn’t trending well either with Ducharme. He wouldn’t have had close to 60 points if not him and Cole going PPG for the last 35 games or so.

I know Suzuki had 28 points up to that the point. A whole heck of a lot more than Caufield. LG chose a window and so did I. My window was a lot bigger but it goes to show you can't Cherry Pick and tell the true story.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don’t think there’s a problem in asking if Suzuki can be a 1C, or saying he needs consistency, it’s that it seems like some take offense of it and think it’s ‘’putting him down’’.

People have taken it personally. As though I’m attacking the guy.

It’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask. And it’d be one thing if he were 22… he’s 24. By now he should be as good as he’ll be. This is the year to prove it and I sincerely hope he does. He’s shown it in spurts, now he’s gotta show it for a full year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I know Suzuki had 28 points up to that the point. A whole heck of a lot more than Caufield. LG chose a window and so did I. My window was a lot bigger but it goes to show you can't Cherry Pick and tell the true story.

What story is that? That CC was buried by DD and on his way to bustville? Yep. No argument here.

That putting him with Suzuki helped revive CC’s career? Yep, I’d agree there too.

Suzuki’s shown he’s a good player and leader. I don’t think anyone disputes this.

What’s being questioned is his consistency in terms of offensive production. It’s a legitimate question to ask. Consistency is what separates good from great. He’s shown greatness in spurts. But he has yet to have a year of consistent production. And until he does, he’s going to be a bottom tier first liner who’s better suited to the second.

 

[Rapala]

Paced for 51 goals. 10 in 16.

Again, Suzuki’s a good player. But he needs to show consistency if we want to count him as our number one. This is not some trivial thing. It goes to the heart of the rebuild question. Do we still need a number one? Right now, I’d say we do.

I think we all know Caufield is a goal scorer and as far as pace goes it's useless using that small window. Caufield like every other player is subject to ups and downs injuries etc. There is not one goal scorer in the entire league who doesn't slump. Not One. As far as Suzuki being a number one I think he's already proven he can be that guy. Overall he was just as consistent production wise as Caufield was which is something you like to ignore. Suzuki is as much a number one center as Caufield is a top line winger.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think we all know Caufield is a goal scorer and as far as pace goes it's useless using that small window.

It directly refutes what people are arguing. Yes it’s a small window but in the context of this discussion, that doesn’t matter.

What matters is that we have yet to see a full year of consistent production from a guy we’re counting on to be our number one. People tried to make excuses for it but it doesn’t wash.

 

[Tyson]

I think we all know Caufield is a goal scorer and as far as pace goes it's useless using that small window. Caufield like every other player is subject to ups and downs injuries etc. There is not one goal scorer in the entire league who doesn't slump. Not One. As far as Suzuki being a number one I think he's already proven he can be that guy. Overall he was just as consistent production wise as Caufield was which is something you like to ignore. Suzuki is as much a number one center as Caufield is a top line winger.

Suzuki had 66 points last year playing with a myriad of players. Habs led the league in man games lost and of course that included him losing Caufield the last 36 games.
Suzuki is developing into the same caliber of a player that Patrice Bergeron was and that is #1 Center quality.
Nick hits 80 points this season.

 

[SlafySZN]

I know Suzuki had 28 points up to that the point. A whole heck of a lot more than Caufield. LG chose a window and so did I. My window was a lot bigger but it goes to show you can't Cherry Pick and tell the true story.

Of course he did, would’ve been weird if not. He was playing 20 minutes while Caufield had 10 minutes of ice-time…

 

[Rapala]

People have taken it personally. As though I’m attacking the guy.

It’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask. And it’d be one thing if he were 22… he’s 24. By now he should be as good as he’ll be. This is the year to prove it and I sincerely hope he does. He’s shown it in spurts, now he’s gotta show it for a full year.

That is not what people are up in arms about. It's actually your insistence in using Cole Caufield in a very small window of time as proof positive that he isn't. No mention of his play up to that point and no mention of his play after that point. People are simply questioning your agenda.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That is not what people are up in arms about. It's actually your insistence in using Cole Caufield in a very small window of time as proof positive that he isn't. No mention of his play upto that point and no mention of his play after that point. People are simply questioning your agenda.

People shouldn’t be up in arms about anything. This isn’t a CC vs Suzuki debate either.

This is a discussion on whether or not Suzuki can be the true number one we hoped. And the verdict is still out on that.

As for my agenda - the only one I have is us winning a cup. I think Suzuki can be a big part of winning one but I’m not confident he’s our number one. If he’s our number two though? If we have someone who can lead the way offensively? Then our odds would go way, way up because Nick Suzuki would be one of the best 2nd line centers in the league.

Maybe he busts out this year. I hope so. It looked like he’d arrived at the start of last year. If he can maintain that level, then we’ve got our guy. Let’s see how it goes.

 

[Miller Time]

People shouldn’t be up in arms about anything. This isn’t a CC vs Suzuki debate either.

Then why do you keep bringing CC up

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Then why do you keep bringing CC up

To refute the false excuses given for Suzuki.

 

[Deebs]

People shouldn’t be up in arms about anything. This isn’t a CC vs Suzuki debate either.

This is a discussion on whether or not Suzuki can be the true number one we hoped. And the verdict is still out on that.

As for my agenda - the only one I have is us winning a cup. I think Suzuki can be a big part of winning one but I’m not confident he’s our number one. If he’s our number two though? If we have someone who can lead the way offensively? Then our odds would go way, way up because Nick Suzuki would be one of the best 2nd line centers in the league.

Maybe he busts out this year. I hope so. It looked like he’d arrived at the start of last year. If he can maintain that level, then we’ve got our guy. Let’s see how it goes.

You keep talking about Suzy needing to become a true #1 Center. So what does that look like in your eyes?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You keep talking about Suzy needing to become a true #1 Center. So what does that look like in your eyes?

He looked like a number one when he started the year. He was pacing for 42 goals and 94 points. If he can get close to that consistently, we've found our number one.

Ideally? I'd like a guy who's going to consistently put up close to 90 points. An above average first line center. Contending teams often have high powered centers and for once I'd love to not have that position be a disadvantage for us. We no longer have Carey Price. We're going to have to build stronger teams up front.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He looked like a number one when he started the year. He was pacing for 42 goals and 94 points. If he can close to that consistently, we've found our number one.

Ideally? I'd like a guy who's going to consistently put up close to 90 points. Contending teams often have high powered centers and for once I'd love to not have that position be a disadvantage for us. We no longer have Carey Price. We're going to have to build stronger teams up front.

#1 Centers have ranges in terms of the top ones and the bottom ones. Right now today, Suzuki is in the mix of the bottom ones. I'm thinking you are talking about what he would need to do to become a top 15 center in the NHL? ... vs a 20-32 range one in which he is in the conversation for today.

I don't think we will know until we have stability in our line-up. It's not something we have had for a while with all these injury seasons. Talent does need to play with talent. What does Bergeron do without Marchand and Pasta on his wing? Results would not be the same in terms of points anyways.

If the Habs had a better PP, Suzuki would no doubt in my mind have put up 75+ pts last year. Even without Caufield.

 

[Rapala]

To refute the false excuses given for Suzuki.

Nobody is using false excuses. Most people are trying to equate his performance on a shit team to centers on more prolific scoring teams. Tage Thompson was brought up more than once even by you as an example of a top center. A younger Suzuki has put up more points in fewer games than Thompson despite being on a far worse team. I've already given examples of what his production coud possibly look like on other teams based on their scoring. I'm not sure why anyone would/could possibly claim Suzuki is not a number one until we get a better talent quotient for him to work with on a regular basis. Tage Thompson had a breakout season as the Sabres got better and gained more depth based on where they are in their rebuild. They scored 296 goals to our 232 maybe we should allow the rebuild to continue 2 more years before taking a stand on Nick Suzuki.

 

[Miller Time]

To refute the false excuses given for Suzuki.

But I thought it wasn't a Caufield/Suzuki debate lol

Your take has been soundly refuted several times, by various posters. You haven't offered anything of substance in rebuttal, just the same circular argument built off cherry picked stats. I fail to see the point of that, seems like an unnecessary doubling down

Suzuki doesn't need any "false excuses". He had a career best year in a very difficult situation, while also stepping into the "C" role in one of the toughest pro sports media bubbles...

Future is bright .

Sit back and enjoy

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

how do you guys have the energy

 

[Rapala]

how do you guys have the energy

The season ended early last year.