Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[BehindTheTimes]

He was brutal.

Monahan went down and he forgot how to play hockey. I don’t know why people can’t acknowledge this.


I don’t expect him to turn into a zombie because f***ing Sean Monahan goes down.

Again, it would be one thing if he tanked after CC went out of the lineup. But that wasn’t the case. He tanked well beforehand.

You don’t seem to acknowledge that stats you keeping talking about just aren’t there. Your narrative has never been supported by the data.

 

[Rapala]

The Suzuki slander is just killing me man lol..
I really hate that he's getting this much "ehh he's not as good as you all think" type stuff knowing full well the 66 pts would be much higher if Caufield didn't play only 46 games, and Dach only 58..
He'd be in the mid 70's easily
And all we'd be talking about right now with him is can he take the next step to PPG or more
Instead, everyone is waiting for the 70 points first, and then maybe will get more props than "only a 2nd line center"

I certainly don't like seeing people hang onto the "Caufield paced for 47 goals tho" while not acknowledging that had he scored 47, that's 21 more goals Suzuki could of assisted on....

I'm keeping receipts, and when Nick hits 80 points this season I'm gonna want some apologies. Lol

Some of us have believed going back a couple of years now that we do have a PPG player in Nick Suzuki providing we surround him with the a proper level of talent. When we did that he was running at a PPG rate and when we had to break that talent quotient up it dropped. This guy would already be a PPG player on a better team. That we have had only 2-3 top line players these past couple of years shouldn't be lost on anyone. I'm not sure we are there yet but we are getting closer. Better play from the back end and better special teams will help tremendously. Anyone with a handful of brain cells understands that playing more in the opposition's end of the rink will result in better production. That is a team thing and not an individual thing but it will enhance an individuals numbers without a doubt. I saw a ton of opportunities fizzle last season because our players were too fatigued to take advantage of a break in play having spent close to a minute or more in their own end. When this improves so will our production and our top producers.

 

[Rapala]

I just hate the way he dropped off beforehand. I mean, wtf? All of a sudden ghosts?

This is pure fabrication he was NEVER a ghost. I'm done with your pitiful attempts at justifying your own take while completely ignoring the reality of the situation. Every player in the league has ups and downs and that an over-taxed player on a shit team had a miniscule drop in production when the wheels fell off is completely understandable. I'm surprised it wasn't worse. When the player was finally able to get some rest he did remarkably well with the next to nothing he was given to work with. This is what happened and it's recorded for posterity.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I just hate the way he dropped off beforehand. I mean, wtf? All of a sudden ghosts?

Did you really think he would be able to sustain those shooting and on-ice numbers while having the responsibilities he did? Suzuki dropping off was super predictable.

 

[Miller Time]

I’ve never said this is his ceiling. I just expected a lot more from him last year. He started great…

24, time for him to show what he can do.

If you consider the context, he has and it's quality #1C play with clear indication of more room to grow.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Did you really think he would be able to sustain those shooting and on-ice numbers while having the responsibilities he did? Suzuki dropping off was super predictable.

Maybe so. But I didn’t expect him to become invisible. He wasn’t generating anything….

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Maybe so. But I didn’t expect him to become invisible. He wasn’t generating anything….

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. I'd argue his "superstar" streak earlier in the season was unsustainable, especially the goal-scoring, while he wasn't absolute shit in the aggregate for the rest of the season. Overall, his final totals were indicative of the type of player he is.

I disagree with your analysis, but your conclusion, that I am 100% in agreement with.

 

[Rapala]

Giving Suzuki the same points % output of last season on a good team the results are as follows:

Boston 86 pts
Carolina 75 pts
New Jersey 82 pts
Florida 82 pts
Toronto 79 pts
Edmonton 92 pts
Buffalo 84 pts

Essentially Suzuki is a PPG player on a team that scores 290 goals based on what he did last season. I think he can be even better % wise as we get better.
To give it some context
Tage Thompson had a 31.7 % ranking with 34 PPP
Nick Suzuki had a 28.4% ranking with 17 PPP

I know this is not a perfect formula but it does tell a story.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Maybe so. But I didn’t expect him to become invisible. He wasn’t generating anything….

Half the team was on the injured list. The season was over. of course he is going to lose interest.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Half the team was on the injured list. The season was over. of course he is going to lose interest.

It happened beforehand.

 

[Adam Michaels]

If Habs stay relatively healthy, Nick will hit 70+ and maybe even closer to 80. The guy just had a career year. He was 4 goals away from hitting 30 and 4 pts away from hitting 70. And slowly, slowly, all the guys he was having success with started dropping like flies one after another. Cole, Monahan, Dach, Anderson.

The guy had different wingers practically every other game, from Hoffman, Dadonov, Drouin, Gurianov, even had Pez, Ylonen. It was a revolving door. And it wasn't that much quality coming in and out. Only RHP was the steady one when he got there and was put on Nick's wing.

So if Nick was able to get close to 30 and 70 playing practically half the season with outcasts, imagine what he can do if he has his regular linemates for the whole season.

 

[Redux91]

If Habs stay relatively healthy, Nick will hit 70+ and maybe even closer to 80. The guy just had a career year. He was 4 goals away from hitting 30 and 4 pts away from hitting 70. And slowly, slowly, all the guys he was having success with started dropping like flies one after another. Cole, Monahan, Dach, Anderson.

The guy had different wingers practically every other game, from Hoffman, Dadonov, Drouin, Gurianov, even had Pez, Ylonen. It was a revolving door. And it wasn't that much quality coming in and out. Only RHP was the steady one when he got there and was put on Nick's wing.

So if Nick was able to get close to 30 and 70 playing practically half the season with outcasts, imagine what he can do if he has his regular linemates for the whole season.

Told'em bud
I'm keeping receipts lol
Nick was put through the ringer here over the summer, was tough to read

 

[Scriptor]

If Habs stay relatively healthy, Nick will hit 70+ and maybe even closer to 80. The guy just had a career year. He was 4 goals away from hitting 30 and 4 pts away from hitting 70. And slowly, slowly, all the guys he was having success with started dropping like flies one after another. Cole, Monahan, Dach, Anderson.

The guy had different wingers practically every other game, from Hoffman, Dadonov, Drouin, Gurianov, even had Pez, Ylonen. It was a revolving door. And it wasn't that much quality coming in and out. Only RHP was the steady one when he got there and was put on Nick's wing.

So if Nick was able to get close to 30 and 70 playing practically half the season with outcasts, imagine what he can do if he has his regular linemates for the whole season.

Can't do anything but agree with this. It's not just a question of having good wingers. It's also a question of having talented depth behind him in the lineup, from line #2 to line #4, so opponents just don't key in on Suzuki to stop the Habs.

Honestly, last year, just having a healthy Monahan as a 2nd line C was enough total the bullseye off of Suzuki enough for him to produce at more than a PPG pace with Caufield and Dach (in the end).

If this is the Habs' lineup on opening day (which it won't be, because they will play Dach at C and Newhook in the top-6 to start the season), Suzuki gets 80 points, Dach gets 60 points and Caufield goes 40-30 for 70 points:

Caufield - Suzuki - Dach
Slafkovsky - Monahan - Anderson
RHP - Newhook - Heineman
Armia -Dvorak - Gallagher

Do not discount the wear and tear opponents will feel from facing off against the line of Slafkovsky - Monahan -Anderson!

If, somehow, RHP doesn't get the same chemistry with Heineman as with Anderson last season, I'd be comfortable switching up those two:

Caufield - Suzuki - Dach
Slafkovsky - Monahan - Heineman
RHP - Newhook - Anderson
Armia -Dvorak - Gallagher

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If Habs stay relatively healthy, Nick will hit 70+ and maybe even closer to 80. The guy just had a career year. He was 4 goals away from hitting 30 and 4 pts away from hitting 70. And slowly, slowly, all the guys he was having success with started dropping like flies one after another. Cole, Monahan, Dach, Anderson.

The guy had different wingers practically every other game, from Hoffman, Dadonov, Drouin, Gurianov, even had Pez, Ylonen. It was a revolving door. And it wasn't that much quality coming in and out. Only RHP was the steady one when he got there and was put on Nick's wing.

So if Nick was able to get close to 30 and 70 playing practically half the season with outcasts, imagine what he can do if he has his regular linemates for the whole season.

It will greatly depend on where CC plays in the lineup. If CC is with Dach, I don’t think Nick hits 70.

 

[BLONG7]

It will greatly depend on where CC plays in the lineup. If CC is with Dach, I don’t think Nick hits 70.

One thing for sure, if we can truly fix the PP all 3 of those mentioned will rack up more points......
Two years in a row, and 700 man games lost, this guy stays healthy and somehow puts up 60 plus points on a bottom feeder...............the kid is loaded with talent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You don’t seem to acknowledge that stats you keeping talking about just aren’t there. Your narrative has never been supported by the data.

How'd I miss this one? Of course it is. I'm not sure why you don't know this as it's already been shown many times. He dropped off a cliff as soon as Monhan went down and BEFORE CC was hurt.


Monahan went down December 5th.

Suzuki up to Dec 5th - 14-14-28 in 25 games.

After Dec 5th:

Caufield from Dec 5th until Jan 7th: 10 goals in 16 games.

Suzuki over that time: 1-5-6 in 16 games.


Again, Suzuki fell apart after Monahan went away. Well before CC left the lineup and was still producing to the tune of around a 50 goal season. And it wasn't just a lack of numbers, the guy just flat out vanished.

Rest of the way he paced for what would be a 22 goal 62 point season.

There is no getting around this. This is what happened. It's not a 'narrative' it's the numbers. If you want to argue with somebody go fight the math.

Maybe there was an injury that we don't know about. That's possible. But it's nonsense to say that he didn't drop way off after Monahan went down.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

One thing for sure, if we can truly fix the PP all 3 of those mentioned will rack up more points......
Two years in a row, and 700 man games lost, this guy stays healthy and somehow puts up 60 plus points on a bottom feeder...............the kid is loaded with talent.

He is.

But he's also been inconsistent. He needs to fix that if he wants to be a top tier player.

 

[Paddy17]

He is.

But he's also been inconsistent. He needs to fix that if he wants to be a top tier player.

He needs better conditionning. To me, he's always looked a little chubby in the belly and gets tired so fast on every shift. Doesn't help to play him as much as Marty does either. It may just be genetics, but perhaps a new training regimen can fix his stamina.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He needs better conditionning. To me, he's always looked a little chubby in the belly and gets tired so fast on every shift. Doesn't help to play him as much as Marty does either. It may just be genetics, but perhaps a new training regimen can fix his stamina.

Might have been us over-relying on him too. Dach should help with that going forward.

 

[Scriptor]

Might have been us over-relying on him too. Dach should help with that going forward.

You know what would really help? A full season with each as a healthy RW and Monahan as a healthy 2nd line C.

Of course Suzuki's production tapered off once Monahan was injured. His line was exposed with no support lower in the lineup.

We should stop saying we want to see Suzuki be consistent like a PPG C, but want him to carry the team by himself like much better Cs to get there.

Nobody claims Suzuki will be the next CROSBY, OR MCDAVID, so let's stop holding him to those ideals on a crap team that lacked healthy, talented depth to support him.

 

[Adam Michaels]

It will greatly depend on where CC plays in the lineup. If CC is with Dach, I don’t think Nick hits 70.

I'd be surprised if Caufield isn't with Nick most of the season. Not that MSL won't experiment at some point and move guys around. But even if Cole plays on a line with Dach at some point, I don't think it means Nick will suddenly have plugs on his line like was the case with when Habs had half their line-up on IR.

But also, Nick will play a lot with Cole on the PP even if they're not on the same line at 5-on-5.

Anderson had a 20+ goal season. He had good chemistry with Monahan. RHP looked good next to him. Newhook is an option.

 

[Belial]

How'd I miss this one? Of course it is. I'm not sure why you don't know this as it's already been shown many times. He dropped off a cliff as soon as Monhan went down and BEFORE CC was hurt.


Monahan went down December 5th.

Suzuki up to Dec 5th - 14-14-28 in 25 games.

After Dec 5th:

Caufield from Dec 5th until Jan 7th: 10 goals in 16 games.

Suzuki over that time: 1-5-6 in 16 games.


Again, Suzuki fell apart after Monahan went away. Well before CC left the lineup and was still producing to the tune of around a 50 goal season. And it wasn't just a lack of numbers, the guy just flat out vanished.

Rest of the way he paced for what would be a 22 goal 62 point season.

There is no getting around this. This is what happened. It's not a 'narrative' it's the numbers. If you want to argue with somebody go fight the math.

Maybe there was an injury that we don't know about. That's possible. But it's nonsense to say that he didn't drop way off after Monahan went down.

Not this again...

You do realize you're talking about a difference of 4 points between the two players in that span?

While in your opinion one player dropped off a cliff and the other one produced admirably! Biased much?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not this again...

You do realize you're talking about a difference of 4 points between the two players in that span?

While in your opinion one player dropped off a cliff and the other one produced admirably! Biased much?

We’re talking about the drop off in Suzuki’s play. People have said it’s because everyone else was hurt and not scoring. That’s clearly not the case. Caufield continued to score at the same pace. What happened to Suzuki?

Stop pretending this didn’t happen.

 

[Miller Time]

We’re talking about the drop off in Suzuki’s play. People have said it’s because everyone else was hurt and not scoring. That’s clearly not the case. Caufield continued to score at the same pace. What happened to Suzuki?

Stop pretending this didn’t happen.

Sure, once you stop pretending that the roster context didn't impact his stat line lol

 

[Belial]

We’re talking about the drop off in Suzuki’s play. People have said it’s because everyone else was hurt and not scoring. That’s clearly not the case. Caufield continued to score at the same pace. What happened to Suzuki?

Stop pretending this didn’t happen.

The difference in production is not as significant as you're trying to make it sound IMO.