Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[Lafleurs Guy]

I mean when I can dedicate ALL FOUR LINES AND ALL D pairings to shutting him down what is he going to do about it alone? Who else were they going to target?

Caufield kept scoring. Why did Suzuki tank?

Instead of having to worry about two or three lines to match other teams had to worry about one and a half players total.

He still put up a career high in points with 73% of his production off the PP.

Nobody is saying that the Habs are a powerhouse but a legit number one should be able to maintain some level of consistency. You can’t just vanish for months at a time like that.

 

[SlafySZN]

To everyone slagging Suzuki for "not being talented enough":

Nick Suzuki - 63 Points
Kirby Dach - 38 Points
Cole Caufield - 36 Points
Mike Hoffman - 34 Points
Mike Matheson - 33 Points
Josh Anderson - 32 Points

This list is pathetic (injuries forgiven). These were the only players on our entire team over 30 points last year.

Suzuki still put up 63 points and set a career high for points. Leading your team in scoring by 25 points in the NHL is insane when the spread is 63 to 38. What do you expect from him; to start picking up extra points by firing pucks off teammates shin pads?

Our Power-play was working at 16.03% and we only scored 227 goals total. Only 17 of his points came on the Power-play.

73% of his points were scored at ES or on the PK (3 short handed goals). Did you seriously expect him to put up 85 points with this crap?

Caufield played 46 games and Dach 58, of course they wouldn’t end the year with as much points as Suzuki and that there is a big gap.

 

[danisonfire]

Caufield kept scoring. Why did Suzuki tank?

Nobody is saying that the Habs are a powerhouse but a legit number one should be able to maintain some level of consistency. You can’t just vanish for months at a time like that.

All I am saying is slagging the guy that lead our team in scoring by 28 points with 0 help is why nobody wants to play here.

I'd say setting your career high for points is showing some consistency. All point getters have slumps. Austin Matthews will go at times 8 games with 2 points before scoring 5 goals in 2 games.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I don’t care.

Nick has shown he can do it in stretches. Needs to do it a full year. Until he does, he’s a really good 2nd line center.

The guy from last year’s first 20 games needs to show up for a full 82.

Of all active centers, how many of them posted 1.15 PPG at age 23 over a full 82 game season?

That's your bar for 1C, right?

 

[danisonfire]

Caufield played 46 games and Dach 58, of course they wouldn’t end the year with as much points as Suzuki and that there is a big gap.

Right so for all the games they missed who did the other team get to pick for all their hard matchups?

Nick Suzuki. Who did he have to help him set his new career high in all of those games? Even with those two that gives us one line to focus against. Without them it is one guy.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

All I am saying is slagging the guy that lead our team in scoring by 25 points with 0 help is why nobody wants to play here.

I'd say setting your career high for points is showing some consistency. All point getters have slumps. Austin Matthews will go at times 8 games with 2 points before scoring 5 goals in 2 games.

I’m not slagging him.

I’m saying he may not be the player everyone is hoping him to be. I’ve said I’d be fine with him as a number two. And that might be where he’s best suited.

Maybe he’ll be a number one but people should stop talking like he’s already there. He’s not.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Right so for all the games they missed who did the other team get to pick for all their hard matchups?

Nick Suzuki. Who did he have to help him set his new career high in all of those games? Even with those two that gives us one line to focus against. Without them it is one guy.

Again - he tanked before those players went down, not afterwards.

 

[danisonfire]

I’m not slagging him.

I’m saying he may not be the player everyone is hoping him to be. I’ve said I’d be fine with him as a number two. And that might be where he’s best suited.

Maybe he’ll be a number one but people should stop talking like he’s already there. He’s not.

And I am saying you are hard pressed to beat 46 ES/SH points when the second leading producer has 38 points total.

They guy had more ES and SH points than our second leading scorer had in total points. Do people really think he can hit 80 points with that crap?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Of all active centers, how many of them posted 1.15 PPG at age 23 over a full 82 game season?

That's your bar for 1C, right?

In general, my bar for a number one center is that he’s in or near the top 15 in scoring for centers.

Nick Suzuki is a bottom tier number one just like Koivu was. He’s a good two way player who is outside the top fifty in scoring. In my book that makes him a really good second line center.

 

[SlafySZN]

Right so for all the games they missed who did the other team get to pick for all their hard matchups?

Nick Suzuki. Who did he have to help him set his new career high in all of those games? Even with those two that gives us one line to focus against. Without them it is one guy.

No one said he didn’t do ok with the situation he was in, he did pretty good but it’s also ok to say he needs more consistency to be considered a ‘’real’’ first line center.

I really don’t know why you keep repeating that he had more points than the player who’s 2nd in points on the team, of course he did, he played 25 more games than said player.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And I am saying you are hard pressed to beat 46 ES/SH points when the second leading producer has 38 points total.

They guy had more ES and SH points than our second leading scorer had in total points. Do people really think he can hit 80 points with that crap?

But you continue to ignore that his play dropped off before those injuries… nobody cares that he was that far ahead because the club was riddled.

And if his play dropped off after CC I’d see it as a potential excuse. But THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

 

[the valiant effort]

Us Suzuki stans laud him for his intelligence. He, intelligently, took a load off throughout the season to ensure the Habs finished as low as they did to increase their odds of a higher pick. And still finished with a higher points per game than Caufield.

 

[danisonfire]

But you continue to ignore that his play dropped off before those injuries… nobody cares that he was that far ahead because the club was riddled.

And if his play dropped off after CC I’d see it as a potential excuse. But THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

No. I just don't hold a slump during the year against a guy that set a career high and had more ES and SH points than our second leading guy had total points. He was getting all the hard ES matchups and producing. In a few years when he is older and we don't have our second leading scorer at 38 points things will look much different. Then they can't thrown everything at one line.

Just for fun I looked at the top scorers. To find the first name with 17 or less PP points like Suzuki. I had to go all the way to Brock Nelson. He was 40th in NHL scoring.

You are never hitting numbers that high (your example) with a powerplay like ours last season. All the top point producers abuse the powerplay and have help. McDavid had 71 PP points. Draisaitl had 62 PP points. Kucherov had 50 PP points. These expectations put on Suzuki are unrealistic with our team last year.

 

[SlafySZN]

No. I just don't hold a slump during the year against a guy that set a career high and had more ES and SH points than our second leading guy had total points. He was getting all the hard ES matchups and producing. In a few years when he is older and we don't have our second leading scorer at 38 points things will look much different. Then they can't thrown everything at one line.

Just for fun I looked at the top scorers. To find the first name with 17 or less PP points like Suzuki. I had to go all the way to Brock Nelson. He was 40th in NHL scoring.

You are never hitting numbers that high (your example) with a powerplay like ours last season.

How many games the 2nd leading scorer and 3rd leading scorer played?

 

[danisonfire]

How many games the 2nd leading scorer and 3rd leading scorer played?

How many times do you have to hear that just increases the others teams ability to shut him down. What's harder to stop 5 good players across two scoring lines or Nick Suzuki alone. Where are these high point getters on teams that have our production and absymal PP? They aren't in the top 40 in scoring last season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No. I just don't hold a slump during the year against a guy that set a career high and had more ES and SH points than our second leading guy had total points. He was getting all the hard ES matchups and producing. In a few years when he is older and we don't have our second leading scorer at 38 points things will look much different. Then they can't thrown everything at one line.

Just for fun I looked at the top scorers. To find the first name with 17 or less PP points like Suzuki. I had to go all the way to Brock Nelson. He was 40th in NHL scoring.

You are never hitting numbers that high (your example) with a powerplay like ours last season.

He was doing fine to start. He was awesome. Then he forgot how to play hockey for a few months.

I’m not “holding it against him” it just is what it is. Another inconsistent season.

That doesn’t mean he won’t get better or doesn’t have talent etc… it’s just that he’s never found the consistency to match his talent. And until he does that, I see him more as a really good number two.

Honestly, if Suzuki is your number one, you aren’t winning a cup unless you’ve got other areas to compensate. Based on his past performance (not future) he’d be an extremely weak number one on a cup winner.

But if he’s your number two? You’re in really good shape.

 

[danisonfire]

He was doing fine to start. He was awesome. Then he forgot how to play hockey for a few months.

I’m not “holding it against him” it just is what it is. Another inconsistent season.

That doesn’t mean he won’t get better or doesn’t have talent etc… it’s just that he’s never found the consistency to match his talent. And until he does that, I see him more as a really good number two.

Honestly, if Suzuki is your number one, you aren’t winning a cup unless you’ve got other areas to compensate. Based on his past performance (not future) he’d be an extremely weak number one.


But if he’s your number two? You’re in really good shape.

Yes. That is called a hot start. Followed by a slump.

Also if Suzuki is your #1 locked into a friendly deal you get to add extra talent and don't end up like the leafs. These are the " areas to compensate" on. We have two young talented players locked into a rising cap for their prime. This is perfect to exploit and fill out our roster. We don't have the luxury of drafting Connor McDavid.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

In general, my bar for a number one center is that he’s in or near the top 15 in scoring for centers.

Nick Suzuki is a bottom tier number one just like Koivu was. He’s a good two way player who is outside the top fifty in scoring. In my book that makes him a really good second line center.

so, by definition, half the 1Cs in the league aren't 'really' 1Cs by your standards. when you say 1C you mean 'above average 1C'.

anyway, i really wonder who meets the criteria you mentioned earlier (1.15 PPG at age 23 over a full 82 game season) among active players. I got a feeling it's an even smaller number of players.

 

[SlafySZN]

How many times do you have to hear that just increases the others teams ability to shut him down. What's harder to stop 5 good players across two scoring lines or Nick Suzuki alone. Where are these high point getters on teams that have our production and absymal PP? They aren't in the top 40 in scoring last season.

Ok then why aren’t you just saying that instead of making it seems like the difference in stats is so big while leaving the fact that this played played 58 games, not 82.

 

[danisonfire]

so, by definition, half the 1Cs in the league aren't 'really' 1Cs by your standards. when you say 1C you mean 'above average 1C'.

anyway, i really wonder who meets the criteria you mentioned earlier (1.15 PPG at age 23 over a full 82 game season) among active players. I got a feeling it's an even smaller number of players.

And how many of the players that fit this criteria have 17 total PP points like Suzuki? With a team powerplay sitting at 16.03%.

Ok then why aren’t you just saying that instead of making it seems like the difference in stats is so big while leaving the fact that this played played 58 games, not 82.

I did if you look a few posts back. I also clearly added (injuries forgiven) in my original comment to AVOID this.

Losing talented help on your line doesn't help Nick Suzuki put up points and losing Cole Caufield doesn't help him put up high PP or ES, numbers.

 

[FF de Mars]

I don’t know if anybody plays Old World, but Suzuki looks like a teenage Roman emperor from that game, It crackles me up every time I start a new map.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

so, by definition, half the 1Cs in the league aren't 'really' 1Cs by your standards. when you say 1C you mean 'above average 1C'.

anyway, i really wonder who meets the criteria you mentioned earlier (1.15 PPG at age 23 over a full 82 game season) among active players. I got a feeling it's an even smaller number of players.

I don’t give a shit if a player is 23. Is he better than the 30 year old or not? No? Then who gives a f***? ‘Cause next year Bedard will be in the league and he’ll leapfrog everyone in a few years. Same with other young players…

Stop putting caveats on things. Bottom line is that Suzuki falls into the bottom tier given his play so far.

If Austin Matthews has a crap year or a slump - he’s still a number one. Why? Because he’s proven it over and over. Suzuki has never proven to be a number one. We were hoping for it last year but he stumbled a few months in… so now we’re hoping for this year. Hopefully he improves. I’m expecting a big year for CC and hopefully that comes to fruition. If it does that will also help Nick. Hopefully he takes the next step. Everyone wants this!

Saying Suzuki’s shown himself to be a good second line center so far is not “slagging him” and people have to stop thinking of it as some kind of insult. That’s what he’s been so far. And that’s not a bad thing. If this is what he’ll always be, I’m okay with it.

Regardless, I think we need to try hard to get a real number one center. It can only help us if a good player like Nick gets used as a number two behind someone better.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I don’t give a shit if a player is 23. Is he better than the 30 year old or not? No? Then who gives a f***?

yikes dude, so angry. chill

Stop putting caveats on things. Bottom line is that Suzuki falls into the bottom tier given his play so far.

here's another question for you -- hopefully you don't have an aneurysm -- by your criteria, do "bottom half" 1Cs ever end up leading their team to a cup? I imagine it happens sometimes. if so, maybe there are ways to build a championship-winning team where 1C is not your greatest strength.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

so, by definition, half the 1Cs in the league aren't 'really' 1Cs by your standards. when you say 1C you mean 'above average 1C'.

Can he arguably be ranked around 15th or not? The answer is no. He’s nowhere close. He’s bottom tier.

anyway, i really wonder who meets the criteria you mentioned earlier (1.15 PPG at age 23 over a full 82 game season) among active players. I got a feeling it's an even smaller number of players.

Nobody cares about age when comparing centers. 23 is prime years, he’s not a kid. Yes he has the potential to improve- he’s shown that already. Talent is not in question, consistency is.

It’s not that I don’t think he can get there. It’s that I don’t think we should count on it. Those are two very different things.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

yikes dude, so angry. chill

Not angry at all.

here's another question for you -- hopefully you don't have an aneurysm -- by your criteria, do "bottom half" 1Cs ever end up leading their team to a cup? I imagine it happens sometimes. if so, maybe there are ways to build a championship-winning team where 1C is not your greatest strength.

I don’t think you should ever aim to win with inferior skill at a position. Can you win with a shit center? Yes. Just as you can do it elsewhere. But most cup winners are well rounded and that ms what we should shoot for.