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Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

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The ironman streak really shouldn't matter. At some point doctors would bring the players back to earth and use Weber and Price as example that your ego for these meaningless streak are straight up dumb for your future. He's not winning anything this year.

I have a feeling that it's more about him trying to stay as close of possible with the team because of his role as captain with so many youngster on the team. That, I would understand.
 
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The Great Weal said:
Suzuki has been so good for us that we shouldn’t worry. Ya he’s been bad for a long stretch but you can’t ignore what he’s done for us. He will only get better too when we add more talent. He will be a 2way 70-80 point player who dominates in the playoffs don’t worry.
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Sure he can be a 70-80 point player if there are others around too. I would want to see four play drivers for the first two lines. We have Suzuki and Dach. We need two more at least as good.

Caufield and Slaf or another winger we find can be the finishers.

Then another 2C calibre to play 3C and we're set up front.
 
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I feel like the Larkin situation from a couple years back in Detroit is a good comparison for Suzuki. He is probably going to end the season with like 50 points and a -30 but the moment he gets actual linemates/half decent team it should bounce right back to point/game.
 
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Mrb1p said:
Its crazy that you guys cant read the room. The season is over, everyones injured, Nick has shower he was an absolute gamer. Hes just chilling right now, just like Price used to do.

The regular season, especially this one, is inconsequential. Hes gonna finish with 65-70 points while absolutely not giving a f***.
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Agreed. Suzuki will be there for us when we really need him. Lets focus on injecting more talent in that top 9.

Wats said:
I feel like the Larkin situation from a couple years back in Detroit is a good comparison for Suzuki. He is probably going to end the season with like 50 points and a -30 but the moment he gets actual linemates/half decent team it should bounce right back to point/game.
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6 more goals and 24 more points to beat his career best from last year. Without Caufield, it will be close. With Caufield, it would not be a problem at all.
 
He's minus 16 at the moment. 16 goals and 22 assists. 22, the jersey number of Caufield.
The debate as he is a true #1 C or not is semantics. If he's a #1 C, lets say he's in the lower rank of the #1 C.
 
Imagine C is wearing on him. Lot of responsibility for young player on struggling team. Why I wanted a vet to be Captain. I always found team better if a Keane or Carbo, Gainey was captain. Doesn't wear as hard as on a star
 
Scorey Perry said:
Imagine C is wearing on him. Lot of responsibility for young player on struggling team. Why I wanted a vet to be Captain. I always found team better if a Keane or Carbo, Gainey was captain. Doesn't wear as hard as on a star
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I think that what is really wearing on him is having to try and be the team's primary defensive concience and offensive catalyst, whilst playing with middle 6 quality wingers.
 
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I've heard that Suzuki has only 1 goal in his last 19-20 games, is that true ? For a player that has a lot of ice time and PP minutes, that's very disappointing, no ?
It seems that every year, Suzuki has gone through a void period like this.
 
zzoo said:
I've heard that Suzuki has only 1 goal in his last 19-20 games, is that true ? For a player that has a lot of ice time and PP minutes, that's very disappointing, no ?
It seems that every year, Suzuki has gone through a void period like this.
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2 in his last 20 games but i don’t think we should hold it against him, that habs team is bad in general. Yes he should have more with his ice time and PP minutes but i guess he’ll learn from all that.
 
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zzoo said:
I've heard that Suzuki has only 1 goal in his last 19-20 games, is that true ? For a player that has a lot of ice time and PP minutes, that's very disappointing, no ?
It seems that every year, Suzuki has gone through a void period like this.
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He is still the best player on the team in my opinion and will only get better with real help. Likely not someone that will carry you in the playoffs, but he will be a main contributor as long as there is some C depth after him. Danault took a lot of the defensive responsibilities which made it easier for Suzuki (and KK) and Dvorak cannot do the same.
 
I guess I have to do the annual Stop Caring About Plus-Minus And Especially Stop Caring About Plus-Minus For Offensive Players On Bad Teams post again.

Yes, Nick Suzuki is -16. No, this is not something we should care about at all. One of the biggest problems with plus-minus is that it includes shorthanded goals, and more importantly, that it INCLUDES EMPTY NET GOALS. I'll break down Suzuki's GF/GA numbers by situation as follows:

5v5: 39GF, 43GA (-4)
4v4: 0GF, 1GA (-1)
3v3: 0GF, 3GA (-3)
PP: 17GF, 1GA (counts for a -1)
PK: 1GF, 11GA (+1)
Canadiens' Net Empty: 3GF, 13GA (net -10 but counts as a -8 for plus/minus purposes because two of these GAs have already been counted under the 5v5 stats)
Opponent's Net Empty: 1GF, 1GA (0)

That breakdown makes it obvious why it's silly to use raw +/- in general, and why it's particularly misleading with players in Suzuki's situation as the go-to guy on a bad team which is going to be trailing in a lot of games and frequently have to pull the goalie. There is absolutely no good reason to value empty net goals the same way as even-strength goals when assessing a player's two-way ability, and that is exactly what +/- does.

His overall -16 comes from a -4 at 5v5, -3 in the OT minigame, -1 in 17 minutes of 4v4, and a -8 from being on the ice with the net empty. Suzuki being -4 at 5v5 50 games into the season on this team is not in any way concerning, and over half of the -16 comes from empty net nonsense with another quarter coming from tiny samples of 4v4 and 3v3.
 
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Mrb1p said:
Its crazy that you guys cant read the room. The season is over, everyones injured, Nick has shower he was an absolute gamer. Hes just chilling right now, just like Price used to do.

The regular season, especially this one, is inconsequential. Hes gonna finish with 65-70 points while absolutely not giving a f***.
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Or he’s injured
 
Let's all just imagine Suzuki playing on a stacked team and good wingers for a second. Unfortunately, he will pretty much eat up a good chunk of his career carrying a horribly built team like Price, never really hoisting a cup, unless he is offloaded to a contender south of the border.
 
SuzukiSZN said:
2 in his last 20 games but i don’t think we should hold it against him, that habs team is bad in general. Yes he should have more with his ice time and PP minutes but i guess he’ll learn from all that.
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In my opinion, 2 goals in 20 games is terrible, no matter how we look at it. That's the pace of 8 goals a season. He has 0 goal in his last 10 games at Centre Bell. If he doesn't have quality ice-time like Armia or Pitlick then I'd understand, but here he has played a lot. Harvey-Pinard has scored 2 goals in 1 game, and he has done it twice.

Bad team brings a player down, or a bad player brings down a team, which is truer ?
 
zzoo said:
In my opinion, 2 goals in 20 games is terrible, no matter how we look at it. That's the pace of 8 goals a season. He has 0 goal in his last 10 games at Centre Bell. If he doesn't have quality ice-time like Armia or Pitlick then I'd understand, but here he has played a lot. Harvey-Pinard has scored 2 goals in 1 game, and he has done it twice.

Bad team brings a player down, or a bad player brings down a team, which is truer ?
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RHP shooting percentage is around 33% every shot he takes is going in, it won’t be like that for long. It’s unsustainable, kinda like suzuki’s production at the start of the season.

Suzuki had his best game in months tonight.
 
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zzoo said:
In my opinion, 2 goals in 20 games is terrible, no matter how we look at it. That's the pace of 8 goals a season. He has 0 goal in his last 10 games at Centre Bell. If he doesn't have quality ice-time like Armia or Pitlick then I'd understand, but here he has played a lot. Harvey-Pinard has scored 2 goals in 1 game, and he has done it twice.

Bad team brings a player down, or a bad player brings down a team, which is truer ?
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He’s certainly not a bad player but he’s not in good form. He’s a very good player who needs to perform/produce better.
 
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