Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[JoelWarlord]

It's crazy to me that this meme has survived for nearly 20 years.

I can't wait to use it for William Eklund

 

[MadMslm]

I bet Letang will leave Crosby and Malkin to play on a rebuilding team.
Id rather get Subban back than signing Letang for a rebuilding season.
Atleast Subban would be dirt cheap and people in Montreal actually loved him. Right now the team sucks and the players are not even ''cool'' except Suzuki , Subban would gave us good memory will rebuilding.

Yeah, I’ll pass on Subban. I don’t know what’s the obsession this fan base has with him, but I rather keep him far away from this team.

I don’t expect Bergeron or Letang to come here, but if I would have to put money on one of them it would all be on Letang.

He won three cups, it wouldn’t be out of the realm possibilities that he would like to end his career for the team he grew up cheering for.

 

[Gravity]

Look for Suzuki to go on a bit of a tear post ASG. The event will certainly help his confidence.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Yeah, I’ll pass on Subban. I don’t know what’s the obsession this fan base has with him, but I rather keep him far away from this team.

I don’t expect Bergeron or Letang to come here, but if I would have to put money on one of them it would all be on Letang.

He won three cups, it wouldn’t be out of the realm possibilities that he would like to end his career for the team he grew up cheering for.

The classic im old so let's retire with a big contract in Montreal sounds even worse.

 

[MadMslm]

The classic im old so let's retire with a big contract in Montreal sounds even worse.

True, it sucks to always end up in that position instead of having those players in their prime.

Letang can still play hockey and has 41pts in 42games this season. He won’t be as productive here with the offense we have, but he won’t be bad. He can still skate and help drive the offense.

We can’t say the same for Subban. He’s a shadow of his former self and he was always a distraction. I loved PK when he was here, but his mind is always on things that aren’t hockey, that’s not what we need.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

True, it sucks to always end up in that position instead of having those players in their prime.

Letang can still play hockey and has 41pts in 42games this season. He won’t be as productive here with the offense we have, but he won’t be bad. He can still skate and help drive the offense.

We can’t say the same for Subban. He’s a shadow of his former self and he was always a distraction. I loved PK when he was here, but his mind is always on things that aren’t hockey, that’s not what we need.

He's productive because hes playing with #1 center who are PPG in their career. He wont get 40 points next season in montreal. simple as that

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Can’t believe people are complaining about this contract already!
Hasn’t even started yet, zero puck moving defencemen, surrounded by second line or lower talent and already expecting first line numbers. The cap is irrelevant for this team for at least the next couple years and once the players COVID debt to the owners is paid back there will be a huge jump in the cap. Even if Suzuki ends up being nothing more than an average second line centre this contract will be a steal in the final years. Is anyone really that put-out if he’s potentially overpaid for the first year or two of the deal?

 

[danyhabsfan]

Can’t believe people are complaining about this contract already!
Hasn’t even started yet, zero puck moving defencemen, surrounded by second line or lower talent and already expecting first line numbers. The cap is irrelevant for this team for at least the next couple years and once the players COVID debt to the owners is paid back there will be a huge jump in the cap. Even if Suzuki ends up being nothing more than an average second line centre this contract will be a steal in the final years. Is anyone really that put-out if he’s potentially overpaid for the first year or two of the deal?

Would he get the same contract with the kind of season he's having?

 

[Dirby Kach]

Would he get the same contract with the kind of season he's having?

no. I would have waited till this offseason to sign a suzuki contract.

Best case scenario for suzuki this year was 60-65 pts if everything went great.
What would he get then - probably the same thing he got.

if he had no contract right now i'd be looking to sign him to 4.5ish.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Honestly not worried about his salary even if I don't see him as the solution to Montreal's #1 search. Kid was on a 60 point pace last year and even in the midst of this putrid season sits at a 50 point pace halfway through. 60+ point centre who plays a respectable defensive game as well is worth the 7.8 he'll be getting paid. Any further improvements is just a cherry on top.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Would he get the same contract with the kind of season he's having?

He’d still be getting close to the same number or we wouldn’t be signing him to an 8yr deal. The contract was never about what he previously did or would do this year - it’s about what he’s projected to become. If the Canadiens weren’t comfortable with that they could’ve signed him for less but it would’ve been a bridge deal aka PK Subban. Pay now with a chance for cheap years at the end of the contract or take the bridge deal now but pay-up if he amounts to anything in the next couple years.
I personally like the risk as the potential is there that Suzuki’s contract is a bargain by the time we’re ready to compete again which frees up money to potentially bring in a few missing pieces via UFA

 

[McPhees Moustache]

no. I would have waited till this offseason to sign a suzuki contract.

Best case scenario for suzuki this year was 60-65 pts if everything went great.
What would he get then - probably the same thing he got.

if he had no contract right now i'd be looking to sign him to 4.5ish.

Do you really believe Suzuki or his agent would even consider signing an 8yr deal at 4.5M today if he wasn’t already signed?

 

[danyhabsfan]

He’d still be getting close to the same number or we wouldn’t be signing him to an 8yr deal. The contract was never about what he previously did or would do this year - it’s about what he’s projected to become. If the Canadiens weren’t comfortable with that they could’ve signed him for less but it would’ve been a bridge deal aka PK Subban. Pay now with a chance for cheap years at the end of the contract or take the bridge deal now but pay-up if he amounts to anything in the next couple years.
I personally like the risk as the potential is there that Suzuki’s contract is a bargain by the time we’re ready to compete again which frees up money to potentially bring in a few missing pieces via UFA

I wouldn't signed player before their contract ends except if we can get a good deal. I didn't see much upside for Suzuki this season to score at an 80 points pace and ask for 8M+.

We didn't sign Price, Gallagher, Byron and Suzuki at the right time. We signed them 1 year before the end of their contract.

 

[MadMslm]

He's productive because hes playing with #1 center who are PPG in their career. He wont get 40 points next season in montreal. simple as that

That’s literally what I said. He won’t be as productive here, but since his arrival in the league there’s only two defensemen who have produced more than him.

Yes, he is a beneficiary of talent he has around him but lets not act like those players haven’t benefited from Letang. He’s a premiere offensive defensemen in this league and he proved it again and again. His stats were good even when Malkin and Crosby were injured.

If he comes to Montreal (which i don’t think he will), I’ll be shocked not to see him produce close to 0.5p/G while playing 24 min and having all the powerplays.

 

[Dirby Kach]

Do you really believe Suzuki or his agent would even consider signing an 8yr deal at 4.5M today if he wasn’t already signed?

8 years 4.5? absolutely not.
right now he would have to sign for 2 years 4.5 and prove he is worth 7.8M.

if you saw player X stats and they were 9G 18A 27 pts in 44 games -19 would you give them 8x7.8M?

 

[McPhees Moustache]

I wouldn't signed player before their contract ends except if we can get a good deal. I didn't see much upside for Suzuki this season to score at an 80 points pace and ask for 8M+.

We didn't sign Price, Gallagher, Byron and Suzuki at the right time. We signed them 1 year before the end of their contract.

you don’t see a difference between the names you listed and the ages they signed at compared to Nick Suzuki?
There was no chance any of the players you listed were going to develop into anything beyond what they already were.
If you think Suzuki is a finished product at 22 then I guess I see you point? ‍

 

[McPhees Moustache]

8 years 4.5? absolutely not.
right now he would have to sign for 2 years 4.5 and prove he is worth 7.8M.

if you saw player X stats and they were 9G 18A 27 pts in 44 games -19 would you give them 8x7.8M?

you think he’s surrounded by quality pieces right now and will never be more than what he is right now? I get that some people want to see production before paying up but you will pay more in the end in this scenario if he meets expectations.

 

[417]

8 years 4.5? absolutely not.
now he would have to sign for 2 years 4.5 and prove he is worth 7.8M.

if you saw player X stats and they were 9G 18A 27 pts in 44 games -19 would you give them 8x7.8M?

if he proves his worth for 2 years at 4.5M

You think he’s still signing for 7.8M after?

cute.

 

[MadMslm]

8 years 4.5? absolutely not.
right now he would have to sign for 2 years 4.5 and prove he is worth 7.8M.

I don’t think that if works like that.

Suzuki is the most productive guy on the team. Only Toffoli is ahead of him (by 1pts) over the last two seasons.

He’s the only guy who has played 100 games over those two seasons (Romanov 95, Petry 92, Lehkonen 88 and everyone else under 85 games).

Shows durability, especially that he is playing 19min a game over those 100 games which is 1:30min more than any other forward on the team. After really short offseason because they made it to the playoffs (covid luck), he didn’t miss a game over what was probably the most hectic schedule a team had to face.

So the 21 years old kid, who’s been your number one center for two seasons, best scorer during the season and in the playoffs, most durable, who also plays the most minutes by far and is only worth 4,5 million ?

Like what are the Habs gaining with a bridge ? At most a million less per year on the cap hit ?

Is that really worth it ? To take the risk that this 21 years old center won’t keep getting better and better when thats all he’s done since coming into the league, just to save 1 million a year ?

And if he keeps progressing, how much will we have to pay more just to buy more UFA years ? Risk wasn’t worth it and the signing is definitely good for habs future.

 

[Hector Salamanca]

no. I would have waited till this offseason to sign a suzuki contract.

Best case scenario for suzuki this year was 60-65 pts if everything went great.
What would he get then - probably the same thing he got.

if he had no contract right now i'd be looking to sign him to 4.5ish.

It not 2006 dude 4,5m lol get real

 

[JoelWarlord]

8 years 4.5? absolutely not.
right now he would have to sign for 2 years 4.5 and prove he is worth 7.8M.

He proved he was worth 7.8M when he put up 41P in 56 games (60+ pace) and was a high end top 6 center in the playoffs at 21. What do you think the price is going to be if he signs 2x4.5M and then "proves" he's worth it to you? Why should we do that and risk having to pay considerably more money just for the sake of saving cap hit during rebuilding years?

I know I'm repeating myself on this point but it genuinely feels like people are just unaware that the cap is a lot higher than it was the last time we had a legitimate all situations top 6C. He is paid the equivalent (as a percentage of the cap) of 750k more than Plekanec was paid in 2010 and will be making the 23rd highest C salary next year which will drop into the 30s quickly in the next couple years. Big deal.

if you saw player X stats and they were 9G 18A 27 pts in 44 games -19 would you give them 8x7.8M?

We're not talking about "Player X" though, we're talking about a specific player who plays a premium position, had a great playoffs, lots of potential at age 22, and is a strong defensive C. If I had already signed Nick Suzuki to that contract after 41P in 56 games and it was readily apparent that the coach is in over his head, the entire lineup is in shambles, and I had just watched him go ice cold after 10 games dragging Mike Hoffman's washed ass around and then put up 8 points in 7 games the second he got Toffoli and a forechecker (Evans/Lehkonen) on his line, I would not be the slightest bit concerned I had overpaid.

-19

+/- is not 5v5 goal differential, and Suzuki is a great example of why +/- is actively counterproductive to even look at instead of just looking at 5v5 goal differential in the first place. Suzuki is a -9 at 5v5, -8 with the Habs goalie pulled, has a -3 for being on the ice for three shorthanded goals against, a +1 for being on the ice for a shorthanded goal for, and is -1 at 3 on 3. So in actuality, he's a -9 and then the remaining -10 comes from stupid junk that doesn't actually reflect anything about his defensive capabilities. Suzuki being -9 at 5v5 through 44 games playing in front of Ben Chiarot as our #1D and .887 goaltending is not something we should be concerned about. This is why the worst +/- is always a good offesnvie player on a bad team, they go on the ice a lot with the net empty and rack up minuses simply for being the best player on a shit team that has to pull the goalie in a bunch of games.

 

[rahad]

I don't think anyone is calling Suzuki a bad player. Some of us don't think he is worth that much money. As simple as that. If we are wrong, great for the team. If we are right, that just add another overpriced contract in Marc Bergevin list.

I would have give him the same contract of Clayton Keller (7.1m).

That just my opinion.

 

[webersshot]

Nathan MacKinnon had 53 points in 82 games as a 23 year old. I am not worried in the slightest about big dick Nick or Caufield for that matter.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Nathan MacKinnon had 53 points in 82 games as a 23 year old. I am not worried in the slightest about big dick Nick or Caufield for that matter.

Best exemple. Suzuki at 21 years old, on pace 60 points in 82 games, it's pretty good.

I really think with his offensive talent, Suzuki can put 65-75 points per season, even PPG.

 

[417]

I don't think anyone is calling Suzuki a bad player. Some of us don't think he is worth that much money. As simple as that. If we are wrong, great for the team. If we are right, that just add another overpriced contract in Marc Bergevin list.

I would have give him the same contract of Clayton Keller (7.1m).

That just my opinion.

Contracts are rarely about paying a player what he’s worth at the time of signing.