Nicholas Robertson Discussion.

[zeke]

I think of Robertson like I think of some of my mutual funds: just forget about them for a while, keep them invested and wait for them to mature.

Sometimes it doesn't work out, but more often than not patience is a virtue. There's usually no point in rushing things that take some time to develop.

We really shouldn't need too much patient.

In normal times, this would be his first eligible rookie AHL season.

 

[seanlinden]

I've seen enough of Engvall for now. Would like to see Robertson add a scoring threat to the 4th line, and some young energy. Robertson-Spezza-Simmonds would give Robertson plenty of veteran support. A grinder in Simmer and a playmaker in Spezza. Could really add a purpose to that 4th line, that currently seems to lack much of anything

Nick Robertson has only played 28 AHL games, and only 6 since his injury.

I suspect the Leafs brass looks at it as -- "what's the rush???"

They've got 34 games remaining. Why not accrue some cap space, let him build up some confidence, and come in when somebody eventually gets hurt.

It's worth noting, touch wood, the Leafs have been remarkably healthy amongst their forwards. 10 of their 12 forwards have played a minimum of 40 games; including a couple of healthy scratches / personal reasons for Simmonds & Engvall. Marner is at 39. The only real "significant" amount of man games lost to injury was Mikheyev, where Ritchie was essentially the placeholder for that role.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I've seen enough of Engvall for now. Would like to see Robertson add a scoring threat to the 4th line, and some young energy. Robertson-Spezza-Simmonds would give Robertson plenty of veteran support. A grinder in Simmer and a playmaker in Spezza. Could really add a purpose to that 4th line, that currently seems to lack much of anything

Why would the Leafs drop the one guy who has a pulse and actually scores on that 4th line at ES? It is counter-productive.

Simmonds and Spezza have been liabilities the entire year at ES. Spezza provides PP and faceoff value and Simmonds sometimes provides grit, but if we are looking for more depth offense at ES, they are by far the worst guys in our lineup.

 

[meefer]

I think his 18yr old year was pretty much as good as debrincat's 19yr old year tho?

555 (in Thai, pronounced 'hahaha') I'd completely missed Debrincat's was O not AHL. Yes, indeed. My mistake. I'm still high on Robertson, his desire, work ethic, studious nature and shot are something special.

 

[Zybalto]

Why would the Leafs drop the one guy who has a pulse and actually scores on that 4th line at ES? It is counter-productive.

Simmonds and Spezza have been liabilities the entire year at ES. Spezza provides PP and faceoff value and Simmonds sometimes provides grit, but if we are looking for more depth offense at ES, they are by far the worst guys in our lineup.

The current 4th lines numbers arnt so bad:

5v5:
xGF: 57.03 (Leafs average = 55.00)
Goal Differential: 53.49 (Leafs average = 53.52)

They have been a bit down lately though.

Robertson scoring goals and going PPG so far since his injury is nice though but he's going into the top 9 anyways when he's ready.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Is Robertson Debrincat lite? Whats his ceiling?

If he rides shotgun on either of the top 2 lines, he could be a 70 pt guy. Realistically I view him as a Cammaleri type that will put up a bunch of goals on the powerplay and be a 50-60pt player in the middle 6.

I'm just not sure he has the IQ to be a top 6 star player. He needs to learn that you can't just go 100mph all the time. He always seems to skate himself into trouble. He needs to learn to just slow the game down sometimes and use his linemates more. Also needs to work on his balance. He goes down way too easy all the time.

He's still very young and has a ton of talent, so there is a lot of time to figure things out and grow.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Generally with wingers you know what you got in their 1st year pro .. he is a little too small and easily moved off da puck .. but I would give him a year or two of seasoning with Marlies before making a final call .. he is a Cali kid and not had best training growing up .. a lot of cali kids develop later on in life

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The current 4th lines numbers arnt so bad:

5v5:
xGF: 57.03 (Leafs average = 55.00)
Goal Differential: 53.49 (Leafs average = 53.52)

They have been a bit down lately though.

Robertson scoring goals and going PPG so far since his injury is nice though but he's going into the top 9 anyways when he's ready.

Right but that is with Engvall on it. Without Engvall, those numbers are at or below 50%, and right now Engvall is driving that line offensively and defensively. You can easily find guys who bring more to the table at ES than Spezza/Simmonds.

Admittedly, Clifford is somewhat to blame. Clifford has been awful and literally anyone else Simmonds/Spezza have played with have made them much better than Clifford did.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Generally with wingers you know what you got in their 1st year pro .. he is a little too small and easily moved off da puck .. but I would give him a year or two of seasoning with Marlies before making a final call .. he is a Cali kid and not had best training growing up .. a lot of cali kids develop later on in life

He's played hockey in Detroit/Toronto since he was 10 years old. His older brother was developed more in California than he was. I don't think that is a factor.

 

[Zybalto]

Right but that is with Engvall on it. Without Engvall, those numbers are at or below 50%, and right now Engvall is driving that line offensively and defensively. You can easily find guys who bring more to the table at ES than Spezza/Simmonds.

Admittedly, Clifford is somewhat to blame. Clifford has been awful and literally anyone else Simmonds/Spezza have played with have made them much better than Clifford did.

You are also forgetting the 80 minutes Ritchie spent with those two (and the sub 40% goal differential). It was probably the final nail in the coffin for Ritchie when he was getting outperformed as a 4th line checker by Engvall.

LW depth chart:

Bunting
Kerfoot
Mikheyev
Engvall

Robertson doing well since the injury.

Actually not as bad as I would have thought if you told me Ritchie was gonna bust.

 

[therealkoho]

If he rides shotgun on either of the top 2 lines, he could be a 70 pt guy. Realistically I view him as a Cammaleri type that will put up a bunch of goals on the powerplay and be a 50-60pt player in the middle 6.

I'm just not sure he has the IQ to be a top 6 star player. He needs to learn that you can't just go 100mph all the time. He always seems to skate himself into trouble. He needs to learn to just slow the game down sometimes and use his linemates more. Also needs to work on his balance. He goes down way too easy all the time.

He's still very young and has a ton of talent, so there is a lot of time to figure things out and grow.

so today's version of Daniel Marois, or Rocky Saganuik?

 

[zeke]

You are also forgetting the 80 minutes Ritchie spent with those two (and the sub 40% goal differential). It was probably the final nail in the coffin for Ritchie when he was getting outperformed as a 4th line checker by Engvall.

LW depth chart:

Bunting
Kerfoot
Mikheyev
Engvall

Robertson doing well since the injury.

Actually not as bad as I would have thought if you told me Ritchie was gonna bust.

Kerfoot 15:38, 12gl/58pt pace, 53.5xgf%
Bunting 15:21, 27gl/56pt pace, 59.8xgf%
Milheyev 15:19, 30gl/43pt pace, 59.2xgf%
Engvall 12:43, 13gl/31pt pace, 54.9xgf%

None of them getting top PP unit time to boost those numbers, 3 of them key PK guys, 2 of them able to fill in at C.

Not bad.

 

[Stephen]

DeBrincat is a lot smaller than Robertson but one thing he has going is great wheels, ability to be the puck carrier. I think Cole Caufield is a more natural comparison. For Robertson, I think his lack of separation speed and that tenacious way he seems play means his brand of success is going to look very different.

 

[meefer]

Why would the Leafs drop the one guy who has a pulse and actually scores on that 4th line at ES? It is counter-productive.

Simmonds and Spezza have been liabilities the entire year at ES. Spezza provides PP and faceoff value and Simmonds sometimes provides grit, but if we are looking for more depth offense at ES, they are by far the worst guys in our lineup.

Not saying you're wrong about Spezza, but I'd suggest he shouldn't be the 4th line C. RW is what his calling card is these days, that's it.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He's played hockey in Detroit/Toronto since he was 10 years old. His older brother was developed more in California than he was. I don't think that is a factor.

Thanks for update .. who did he play for in G?

 

[Stephen]

If he rides shotgun on either of the top 2 lines, he could be a 70 pt guy. Realistically I view him as a Cammaleri type that will put up a bunch of goals on the powerplay and be a 50-60pt player in the middle 6.

I'm just not sure he has the IQ to be a top 6 star player. He needs to learn that you can't just go 100mph all the time. He always seems to skate himself into trouble. He needs to learn to just slow the game down sometimes and use his linemates more. Also needs to work on his balance. He goes down way too easy all the time.

He's still very young and has a ton of talent, so there is a lot of time to figure things out and grow.

I see that in Robertson too. He wants to be too involved in the play, always the forechecker on the puck carrier and doesn't show the instinct to fade out of the play when on the attack so he can present himself for an open look. He almost looks like a 5'9" guy trying to play a 6'3" Auston Matthews game. When he's carrying the puck he just looks a little raw out there and not quite ready to handle NHL competition. To be fair to him he should be quietly honing his craft in the AHL away from the spotlight, so you can't be too hard on the kid. Love the motor though.

 

[fahad203]

DeBrincat is a lot smaller than Robertson but one thing he has going is great wheels, ability to be the puck carrier. I think Cole Caufield is a more natural comparison. For Robertson, I think his lack of separation speed and that tenacious way he seems play means his brand of success is going to look very different.

I think his wheels works against him like Yakupov. He feels he has to chase everything. Debrincat doesnt and is more of pick and choose shooter

 

[LeafsFan89]

I see that in Robertson too. He wants to be too involved in the play, always the forechecker on the puck carrier and doesn't show the instinct to fade out of the play when on the attack so he can present himself for an open look. He almost looks like a 5'9" guy trying to play a 6'3" Auston Matthews game. When he's carrying the puck he just looks a little raw out there and not quite ready to handle NHL competition. To be fair to him he should be quietly honing his craft in the AHL away from the spotlight, so you can't be too hard on the kid. Love the motor though.

Are we actually criticizing a Leafs forward for forechecking? Really?

I like Robertson. Not married to him like others on here though. I think he should be higher in the line up, but time will tell where he lands. Hope he pans out.

 

[fahad203]

Are we actually criticizing a Leafs forward for forechecking? Really?

I like Robertson. Not married to him like others on here though. I think he should be higher in the line up, but time will tell where he lands. Hope he pans out.

He's top 6 or nothing at all

Will be a decent player but not the player Leafs need right now

There's nothing he brings that Kase, Kampf, Mik and Engvall doesn't bring. We need more of a Steeves type of a guy or Anderson. A bit more sandpaper, a bit more heavy game

Every time I see Robertsson, he looks and plays like a junior player

 

[Stephen]

Are we actually criticizing a Leafs forward for forechecking? Really?

I like Robertson. Not married to him like others on here though. I think he should be higher in the line up, but time will tell where he lands. Hope he pans out.

Yes, I'm commenting on aspects of Robertson's game which I'm noticing.

Last year Ray Ferraro compared Robertson to Yakupov like he's constantly being chased by bees and always buzzing around, and Haley Wickenheiser made the comment in training camp that he can dial back the intensity. I can see what they're getting at because I don't think Robertson needs to play the game like Trevor Moore. He has a special weapon he could learn to use in an NHL setting.

I think Robertson could learn to stay away from the play a little so he has open ice to unleash his shot. Guys like DeBrincat and even Caufield like to ghost in and out of the play, hang on the periphery and get those open looks. That's also a hallmark of bigger snipers like Stamkos or Hull. It's just about developing the right play style to get the most out of his game.

To be fair to Robertson though, I think he should be building up his pro game in the AHL away from the spotlight and probably not burdened with a top six role. This isn't a finished product so I'm keeping an open mind.

 

[Stephen]

He's top 6 or nothing at all

Will be a decent player but not the player Leafs need right now

There's nothing he brings that Kase, Kampf, Mik and Engvall doesn't bring. We need more of a Steeves type of a guy or Anderson. A bit more sandpaper, a bit more heavy game

Every time I see Robertsson, he looks and plays like a junior player

We also have to remember with Robertson, he's a 20 year old and a second round pick. So he's kind of behind schedule only because the Leafs tried to accelerate his schedule as early as the playoff bubble. Ideally, he would have starred in the WJC's, and quietly been allowed to build up his pro game with the Marlies.

 

[2legit2quit]

We also have to remember with Robertson, he's a 20 year old and a second round pick. So he's kind of behind schedule only because the Leafs tried to accelerate his schedule as early as the playoff bubble. Ideally, he would have starred in the WJC's, and quietly been allowed to build up his pro game with the Marlies.

He needs to get off that line with that useless plug Wayne Simmonds.

I don't think I've seen a worse player than Simmonds (does absolutely nothing).

Maybe if we give him some actual players instead of washed up pylons, he'll get his confidence going.


What better way to get a young kid going than to play him with the worst player in the NHL.

 

[TMLAM34]

Simmonds has been trash, aside from the moments he steps up to drop the gloves, he’s been a black hole offensively and defensively. Only thing is, without him we’d have literally no one in our forward group to keep other players in check to a certain degree.

Love Spezza but this has got to be his final year. Give him an advisor role or something within the organization to keep him around the guys.

 

[kule41]

Yes, I'm commenting on aspects of Robertson's game which I'm noticing.

Last year Ray Ferraro compared Robertson to Yakupov like he's constantly being chased by bees and always buzzing around, and Haley Wickenheiser made the comment in training camp that he can dial back the intensity. I can see what they're getting at because I don't think Robertson needs to play the game like Trevor Moore. He has a special weapon he could learn to use in an NHL setting.

I think Robertson could learn to stay away from the play a little so he has open ice to unleash his shot. Guys like DeBrincat and even Caufield like to ghost in and out of the play, hang on the periphery and get those open looks. That's also a hallmark of bigger snipers like Stamkos or Hull. It's just about developing the right play style to get the most out of his game.

To be fair to Robertson though, I think he should be building up his pro game in the AHL away from the spotlight and probably not burdened with a top six role. This isn't a finished product so I'm keeping an open mind.

Robertson is a natural goal scorer and he understands where he needs to go and get space especially being a smaller guy. I think the issue is that when you are on the 4th line with a few minutes each game then you are forced to skate hard all the time and try to get noticed in the minutes you have to move up the line. This is a top 6 guy playing with players that can't get him the puck (more Simmonds than Spezza) so he has to try to do what he can to play with the big boys. I think overall he can be a player for us. He needs to get in the top 6 and some PP minutes to get him looks and build his confidence. I believe right now is the perfect time when we need Nylander and Tavares more engaged and contributing.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This kid is not ready yet .. all you have to do is watch what he does when he is gonna take a hit .. he drops his head and looks to avoid contact .. actually Keefer needs to explain to him that is wrong way to approach hits .. he is likely to get knocked out very soon .. his head is gonna get smashed into wall and he is gonna be in real bad shape .. and it will be his making not defenders .. i don't want that for da kid but he better learn quick .. at this point in time he is not want we need .. i would not hesitate using him in a trade to upgrade our D .. wingers are disposable .. and we need 1 more big fast tough winger for playoffs too