Niagara IceDogs 2022-23 Off-Season Thread

[DWI Dale]

and this franchise is bidding on a mem cup? lol

 

[OHL4Life]

and this franchise is bidding on a mem cup? lol

anyone can bid, doesnt mean he has a hope in hell in winning, which is too bad, the location is probably ideal

 

[sbpointer]

anyone can bid, doesnt mean he has a hope in hell in winning, which is too bad, the location is probably ideal

The location would be great for the " festival " parts of hosting the Memorial Cup but there is no way it gets awarded to this franchise...

 

[OHL4Life]

The location would be great for the " festival " parts of hosting the Memorial Cup but there is no way it gets awarded to this franchise...

yup, perfect location, wrong owner. saginaw is the best team, not sure about the location

 

[Knights Watcher]

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[three dog night]

Merry Christmas everyone stay safe.

 

[OMG67]

yup, perfect location, wrong owner. saginaw is the best team, not sure about the location

I honestly think it is Kingston’s to lose. I really think there is a desire to place it in the East. It has been in the Western Conference a lot lately. 1999 in Ottawa and 2011 in Mississauga.

The league won’t put it in a place that isn’t the best spot but I think when you consider how strong of a festival city Kingston is and what a nice town it is in the Spring, it is tough to find a reason to not award it to Kingston from an “off ice” perspective. It fits every element required.

The question is whether they can piece together a strong enough team on paper. That said, they current’y sit in 4th place in the Eastern Conference on a ”rebuilding” year. They only have four ‘03s on the roster right now after trading Arcuri. They have a few other trades to make, assuming Wright is returned. That should at least get them to a well stocked draft pick cupboard.

Saginaw has six ‘03s right now. They look to be slightly better than Kingston next year but with a full season runway, I am not sure the rosters on paper really mean all that much. Both have had a reasonable level of success this season. I don’t think anyone would have though Kingston would be 3 games above .500 going into the Christmas break.

 

[Savard18]

I honestly think it is Kingston’s to lose. I really think there is a desire to place it in the East. It has been in the Western Conference a lot lately. 1999 in Ottawa and 2011 in Mississauga.

The league won’t put it in a place that isn’t the best spot but I think when you consider how strong of a festival city Kingston is and what a nice town it is in the Spring, it is tough to find a reason to not award it to Kingston from an “off ice” perspective. It fits every element required.

The question is whether they can piece together a strong enough team on paper. That said, they current’y sit in 4th place in the Eastern Conference on a ”rebuilding” year. They only have four ‘03s on the roster right now after trading Arcuri. They have a few other trades to make, assuming Wright is returned. That should at least get them to a well stocked draft pick cupboard.

Saginaw has six ‘03s right now. They look to be slightly better than Kingston next year but with a full season runway, I am not sure the rosters on paper really mean all that much. Both have had a reasonable level of success this season. I don’t think anyone would have though Kingston would be 3 games above .500 going into the Christmas break.

I highly doubt Saginaw has 3 hotels up to standards unless you’re staying 15-20 minutes outside of town and does no one realize it usually runs right up there with Flint, as one of the more dangerous cities in America? Just can’t see them having the amenities for a “hockey festival” there. I can’t stand the arena either for multiple reasons.

 

[dirty12]

All four teams bidding face challenges.
Kingston is not a great OHL market. I was there at the time the Frontenacs added Vilardi, Day, Pu, Jones. The people were mostly unaware or indifferent, and attendance January to end of season under 3800 was the norm.
Yet there was not even standing room for the Queens-RMC game.
I think it will take ~1000 corporate and OHL seats to sell out Frontenac games. To get over 5000 sold tickets for the other games will require a lot of effort imo.

 

[Kingpin794]

I highly doubt Saginaw has 3 hotels up to standards unless you’re staying 15-20 minutes outside of town and does no one realize it usually runs right up there with Flint, as one of the more dangerous cities in America? Just can’t see them having the amenities for a “hockey festival” there. I can’t stand the arena either for multiple reasons.

That’s literally the dumbest thing to bring up and you know that. Should people not go to Wings game either? Or are we going to mention that where the games are played/hotels are aren’t anywhere near dangerous areas of the city?

 

[OMG67]

That’s literally the dumbest thing to bring up and you know that. Should people not go to Wings game either? Or are we going to mention that where the games are played/hotels are aren’t anywhere near dangerous areas of the city?

But you are allowed to pack heat in Michigan. What’s the problem?

 

[Kingpin794]

But you are allowed to pack heat in Michigan. What’s the problem?

This is also not a relevant point.

Saginaw (and Flint for that matter) aren’t some dystopian wastelands where people are waiting to pick you off the second you step out of your vehicle. You don’t need a gun to go to games. You know that. Savard knows that but hahaha Sagnasty amirite? FOH.

 

[bcspragu]

I highly doubt Saginaw has 3 hotels up to standards unless you’re staying 15-20 minutes outside of town and does no one realize it usually runs right up there with Flint, as one of the more dangerous cities in America? Just can’t see them having the amenities for a “hockey festival” there. I can’t stand the arena either for multiple reasons.

These are all hotels within 5 minutes of the rink. The area around Bay and Tittabawasse are no different than any mid size Canadian city. Not to mention saginaw literally has a festival grounds across the road from the arena. The US location is up for debate and arena has some knocks (lack of luxury boxes for one), but nothing that cant be offset by saginaws corporate sponsorships. Anyone looking to knit pick has an agenda ornhasnt spent a ton of time here.

 

[OMG67]

This is also not a relevant point.

Saginaw (and Flint for that matter) aren’t some dystopian wastelands where people are waiting to pick you off the second you step out of your vehicle. You don’t need a gun to go to games. You know that. Savard knows that but hahaha Sagnasty amirite? FOH.

Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em!

 

[Dog Fan]

These are all hotels within 5 minutes of the rink. The area around Bay and Tittabawasse are no different than any mid size Canadian city. Not to mention saginaw literally has a festival grounds across the road from the arena. The US location is up for debate and arena has some knocks (lack of luxury boxes for one), but nothing that cant be offset by saginaws corporate sponsorships. Anyone looking to knit pick has an agenda or

Very different from Niagara Falls which is where visitors would stay while the teams stayed in St. Catharines hotels very close to practice rinks and the Meridian Centre. None of the other three cities has the infrastructure of Niagara...all we need is the team! If the team improves in the second half, Niagara is a slam dunk for host.

 

[OMG67]

Very different from Niagara Falls which is where visitors would stay while the teams stayed in St. Catharines hotels very close to practice rinks and the Meridian Centre. None of the other three cities has the infrastructure of Niagara...all we need is the team! If the team improves in the second half, Niagara is a slam dunk for host.

I’m not saying this to discredit Niagara but Kingston is a great city with outstanding infrastructure. There is no doubt that Niagara would be more fun overall but Kingston has loads of tourist attraction, tons of Hotels, a new Downtown rink and loads of hockey history.

As some have stated, their overall support may be somewhat lacking but their ownership has improved a lot over the last ten years. The League and Member teams get 1000 seats reserved for them so they shouldn’t have any issues selling the remaining 4700 seats.

Kingston would be an outstanding location for a Memorial Cup. Niagara would be better IMO and will get one as soon as they have a franchise that can truly host one. But, I think Kingston is the front runner this year. I don’t understand how they seem to be almost an afterthought.

 

[Square Corners]

I’m not saying this to discredit Niagara but Kingston is a great city with outstanding infrastructure. There is no doubt that Niagara would be more fun overall but Kingston has loads of tourist attraction, tons of Hotels, a new Downtown rink and loads of hockey history.

As some have stated, their overall support may be somewhat lacking but their ownership has improved a lot over the last ten years. The League and Member teams get 1000 seats reserved for them so they shouldn’t have any issues selling the remaining 4700 seats.

Kingston would be an outstanding location for a Memorial Cup. Niagara would be better IMO and will get one as soon as they have a franchise that can truly host one. But, I think Kingston is the front runner this year. I don’t understand how they seem to be almost an afterthought.

THey dont get any fans

 

[OMG67]

THey dont get any fans

The statistics don’t show that to be accurate. They were 10th in attendance last year. They are slightly under 3000 average this year which is in line with Saginaw and only 400 per game less than SSM. Niagara is best in attendance of the bidding teams at just over 3600 per game average.

So all teams are within 600-700 per game. It’s not like any teams bidding are significantly different.

Regardless of any of that, Kingston has 5600 seats, Saginaw 5500, SSM 4900 and Niagara 5300 so they are all around same capacity.

The teams only need to prove they can sell out.

 

[Savard18]

That’s literally the dumbest thing to bring up and you know that. Should people not go to Wings game either? Or are we going to mention that where the games are played/hotels are aren’t anywhere near dangerous areas of the city If I Google downtown Saginaw shooting Google is just gonna look at me like “Huh?”

This is also not a relevant point.

Saginaw (and Flint for that matter) aren’t some dystopian wastelands where people are waiting to pick you off the second you step out of your vehicle. You don’t need a gun to go to games. You know that. Savard knows that but hahaha Sagnasty amirite? FOH.

It’s gonna get factored in when looking at locations for a Memorial Cup though. I get what you’re saying about downtown being far safer than in some neighborhoods. That’s fact but if I Google downtown Saginaw shooting you telling me Google is gonna go “Huh?”. Robbery, Car Theft, Battery, Arson etc. Saginaw and Flint are gonna top any of those other cities. The MC committee is gonna look at that. Period. Here’s the thing. After the Flint-Sudbury game this year I went to a restaurant/bar located in a hotel in dtwn Flint. A lady walks in at almost 11pm (restaurant stops at 11, is why I remember) and says she’s got 2 Sudbury players in her car outside and is looking for a place to feed them before heading towards Saginaw. She can’t get them in anywhere dtwn because they’re all bars serving alcohol. She’s got her phone out and is looking at a map saying if she heads north on Saginaw she sees restaurants. At which point I sent another staff member I know over to take care of that because…to put it much nicer than I would like….in her ignorance she was about the drive her white *** with two teenage white boys straight into the hood in what I’m sure was a rather nice car/SUV on a Friday? Saturday? night. She just had zero clue AT ALL. After she was set straight and left I just remember thinking “Thsts all we need is to read two Sudbury Wolves players …. in Flint, MI…” I got a fairly decent idea who at least one of those kids was and it woulda been headlines. Is Flint safe for me? Yup. Is Saginaw safe for you? Probably. Can most people visit those downtowns with little worry? Sure. If you drop 2,000 Canadians and rich suburban Americans into dtwn Saginaw and Flint like THAT there and just say “Go!”? Well….that might not be the safest for them. Flint pulls off the Crim and Back To The Bricks and the Jazz Fest every year too. I currently would not even remotely take a bid for the MC seriously even if other factors made it more realistic. It ain’t quite there yet. Some people have zero street smarts, common sense or intuition. You got hundreds of people coming in from Shawinigan or Regina you’re gonna need to point out “Oh yeah. Don’t effing go sight seeing or exploring after the game.” and if you gotta do that…. It might be considered. We both know if Flint had put a bid in that s**t woulda been mentioned a thousand times already.

 

[Kingpin794]

It’s gonna get factored in when looking at locations for a Memorial Cup though. I get what you’re saying about downtown being far safer than in some neighborhoods. That’s fact but if I Google downtown Saginaw shooting you telling me Google is gonna go “Huh?”. Robbery, Car Theft, Battery, Arson etc. Saginaw and Flint are gonna top any of those other cities. The MC committee is gonna look at that. Period. Here’s the thing. After the Flint-Sudbury game this year I went to a restaurant/bar located in a hotel in dtwn Flint. A lady walks in at almost 11pm (restaurant stops at 11, is why I remember) and says she’s got 2 Sudbury players in her car outside and is looking for a place to feed them before heading towards Saginaw. She can’t get them in anywhere dtwn because they’re all bars serving alcohol. She’s got her phone out and is looking at a map saying if she heads north on Saginaw she sees restaurants. At which point I sent another staff member I know over to take care of that because…to put it much nicer than I would like….in her ignorance she was about the drive her white *** with two teenage white boys straight into the hood in what I’m sure was a rather nice car/SUV on a Friday? Saturday? night. She just had zero clue AT ALL. After she was set straight and left I just remember thinking “Thsts all we need is to read two Sudbury Wolves players …. in Flint, MI…” I got a fairly decent idea who at least one of those kids was and it woulda been headlines. Is Flint safe for me? Yup. Is Saginaw safe for you? Probably. Can most people visit those downtowns with little worry? Sure. If you drop 2,000 Canadians and rich suburban Americans into dtwn Saginaw and Flint like THAT there and just say “Go!”? Well….that might not be the safest for them. Flint pulls off the Crim and Back To The Bricks and the Jazz Fest every year too. I currently would not even remotely take a bid for the MC seriously even if other factors made it more realistic. It ain’t quite there yet. Some people have zero street smarts, common sense or intuition. You got hundreds of people coming in from Shawinigan or Regina you’re gonna need to point out “Oh yeah. Don’t effing go sight seeing or exploring after the game.” and if you gotta do that…. It might be considered. We both know if Flint had put a bid in that s**t woulda been mentioned a thousand times already.

I’m going to let’s this go after this, but none of that is a valid reason to not host in Saginaw (or Flint). That person could have been in ANY city. Every single town with even a decent amount of people will have sketchy areas. No where any one wants to go when in Saginaw is near a problem area.

 

[dirty12]

I’m not saying this to discredit Niagara but Kingston is a great city with outstanding infrastructure. There is no doubt that Niagara would be more fun overall but Kingston has loads of tourist attraction, tons of Hotels, a new Downtown rink and loads of hockey history.

Ideal infrastructure filled to ideal capacities under normal circumstances perhaps. But unless the university residences are available for use by the OHL I am not convinced Kingston is well set up to handle one off events.
In my experience, Kingston was effectively booked. Lodging was always available, just not necessarily any combination of type, location, and cost you want. It was very much take what you can get.

As some have stated, their overall support may be somewhat lacking but their ownership has improved a lot over the last ten years. The League and Member teams get 1000 seats reserved for them so they shouldn’t have any issues selling the remaining 4700 seats.

Kingston would be an outstanding location for a Memorial Cup. Niagara would be better IMO and will get one as soon as they have a franchise that can truly host one. But, I think Kingston is the front runner this year. I don’t understand how they seem to be almost an afterthought.

 

[OMG67]

Ideal infrastructure filled to ideal capacities under normal circumstances perhaps. But unless the university residences are available for use by the OHL I am not convinced Kingston is well set up to handle one off events.
In my experience, Kingston was effectively booked. Lodging was always available, just not necessarily any combination of type, location, and cost you want. It was very much take what you can get.

Sure but that is part of the proposal. Suitable hotels with rooms blocked off specifically for the event. Every City needs to have that sort of arrangement as part of their bid.

What you are talking about accentuates the fact it is a tourist city with loads of things to do.

 

[dirty12]

Sure but that is part of the proposal. Suitable hotels with rooms blocked off specifically for the event. Every City needs to have that sort of arrangement as part of their bid.

What you are talking about accentuates the fact it is a tourist city with loads of things to do.

Normal tourist activity will not be blocked for a one off event. The cost of attending could get prohibitive though.

 

[OMG67]

Normal tourist activity will not be blocked for a one off event. The cost of attending could get prohibitive though.

There are loads of budget friendly options all down Princess.

That’s all part of the package. Either you want to have it in a place where there is no problem getting a hotel because there is nothing to do or you got to a place where it is more difficult to get a hotel because there are kids of things to do.

Which way do you want it?

Regarding prices, there isn’t a place on the planet with affordable hotels anymore.

 

[dirty12]

There are loads of budget friendly options all down Princess.

That’s all part of the package. Either you want to have it in a place where there is no problem getting a hotel because there is nothing to do or you got to a place where it is more difficult to get a hotel because there are kids of things to do.

Which way do you want it?

Regarding prices, there isn’t a place on the planet with affordable hotels anymore.

I’m telling you that in my Kingston experience, that even at non-peak times the little excess accommodation was not consistent by location, cost, or desirability. It will take organizers great effort to work out the logistics of the memorial cup. That is unless university residences sit empty at that time and made available to the OHL.