Niagara IceDogs 2022-23 Off-Season Thread
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Generalsupdates
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- Sep 4, 2017
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And if that new coach has some defenders with him... Niagara is actually doing well at scoring goals (4th in the East) but they're dead last in goals against with 21 more given up than the team in 2nd last (Sudbury)
Way to early
Sault scored three unanswered third period goals to beat the Icedogs 5 to 2 another goal by Castle n the game next game Friday night in Kingston.
Kingston scored three goals in period two to break open the game on route to a 6 to 2 win over the Icedogs. Castle scored his ten in a losing cause . Next game this afternoon in Ottawa.
Actually let’s keep the coach. We could probably get the record of herring the most goals against in a season
Another loss today has Ottawa rolled to a 7 to 2 win over the Icedogs who went one and four on their road trip. Rosie fifty saves in the lost the Fogs had three defence men out of the lineup did not help. Next game at home Thursday against Saginaw.
OMG67
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- Sep 1, 2013
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Because of some other debates I was having mostly with Dirty, I decided to watch some Ice Dogs games and watched a full game against Ottawa yesterday. Here is my take as an outsider…
Ice Dogs coaching and preparation is poor to awful. I’ve seen a tremendous amount of individual skill on display. Most of the players can skate, they can dangle a bit, they can find open ice when it is there but they play so individually.
Another thing I noticed is whent hey receive the puck, it stays on their sticks way too long. Like super long. This suggests they don’t have any strategic flow. They don’t know where to move the puck to until they scan the ice. The better teams know exactly where to look to find the pass. Ice Dogs? Nope. They have a horrible time transitioning because they are too slow.
They don’t cause a lot of neutral zone turnovers and with their individual skill, they have the ability to be on the puck a lot quicker and play with more jump.
Speaking as an Ottawa fan, it simply doesn’t look like this team is prepared at all. There doesn’t seem to be any real structure. This could be a result of a lot of players from outside the organization added and are trying to coordinate with each other but considering the age of these players, you’d think they’d come together a little quicker.
This isn’t a talent issue at all. It is a coaching issue. The team is simply suffering from a lack of preparation and strategy.
Ice Dogs coaching and preparation is poor to awful. I’ve seen a tremendous amount of individual skill on display. Most of the players can skate, they can dangle a bit, they can find open ice when it is there but they play so individually.
Another thing I noticed is whent hey receive the puck, it stays on their sticks way too long. Like super long. This suggests they don’t have any strategic flow. They don’t know where to move the puck to until they scan the ice. The better teams know exactly where to look to find the pass. Ice Dogs? Nope. They have a horrible time transitioning because they are too slow.
They don’t cause a lot of neutral zone turnovers and with their individual skill, they have the ability to be on the puck a lot quicker and play with more jump.
Speaking as an Ottawa fan, it simply doesn’t look like this team is prepared at all. There doesn’t seem to be any real structure. This could be a result of a lot of players from outside the organization added and are trying to coordinate with each other but considering the age of these players, you’d think they’d come together a little quicker.
This isn’t a talent issue at all. It is a coaching issue. The team is simply suffering from a lack of preparation and strategy.
That is in addition to being a very discouraged group. The team looked better despite losing a few weeks ago. A new coach/philosophy is needed for sure. There is not a team in the league talented enough to punt defence and win imo. The Battalion, Petes, ‘67s, & Steelheads have systems that stress the most dedication to team D in the conference.
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Coach needs to go and what’s embarrassing is the owner hasn’t fired him yet. A box defence? Like what is this id*ot of a coach thinking? Come in last place in jr B and get hired to coach an ohl team?????? The team looks discouraged.
OMG67
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It is beyond obvious to see. I dont’ understand what the team is waiting for.
That said, I’ve also heard rumours they need to make the playoffs to giant he revenue required to maintain operation in the black. If they fire the coach and hire a new one, they may be in a little trouble.
I’m wondering if financial issues are keeping them from doing what is necessary.
believe that to be the case. although im not sure the coach is making an OHL salary. he may stay because it’s more costly to replace him
I think you can put that rumour to rest. The OHL board of governors would not grant new ownership of a franchise if new ownership could not keep it a float for the first season.
I think the ‘story’ was more like the Burkes still retained some equity, and DeDobbelaer would want to buy that with profit rather than out of pocket.
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OMG67
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This specifically, is what I was more referring to with respect to building a franchise and the amount of time it takes. It is more than simply adding players. I believe this may be the extreme example but an example nonetheless.
The Ice Dogs need to time to build their coaching staff, review their scouting staff and assemble what could be considered a full off ice training staff to help the team build a culture of performance. We’ve seen a handful of other teams do it but it comes at a big cost.
This is what Ottawa decided to do when Tourigny and Boyd came into Ottawa. We’ve seen it as well with London. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work. Hard work relates to an entire organization and it all needs to be aligned.
Although I didn’t expect ?niagara to be bad, I didn’t expect them to jump out of the gate and be good from the start. Asking or expecting this team to build a Memorial Cup team in one year virtually fro scratch is not realistic. I think that honour is going to end up in Kingston’s lap.
We shall see what happens the remainder of this season in Niagara. Hopefully they find their way.
He was not the junior b coach he coached Brantford tier two team. Daniel Fitzgerald Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Kingston is in pretty good shape for next season, very good if given the opportunity to trade Wright. But that is not within Niagara’s control.
Yeah DeDobbelhaer could have followed the ‘67s route of being quite poor 4/6 seasons with some major sells along the way. But it seems he wanted to make a splash year one and look like solid candidate to host next season. All he really did was attempt to fast track a rebuild with extra picks and some youth that wasn’t going to contribute during the desired time frame. Not a huge cost given how quickly OHL teams have re-tooled in the past half dozen years; especially with 2-1sts in a good draft class.
The one thing I think we can both agree on is DeDibbelhaer did not give nearly enough consideration to who should be coach.
Omg and he’s the icedog’s coach? What a joke.
He wasn’t even a half decent hockey player.
OMG67
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We can agree on the coaching. However, I disagree about Ottawa. Ottawa didn’t invest in their future, from and off ice perspective, until Boyd/Tourigny took over. Granted, Brown did do a two year sell off to give Boyd assets to move to make the transition on ice easier, that is for sure. But, being more realistic, I wasn’t thinking it would take Niagara 4-6 years to rebuild. The rebuild, as you mentioned, could have centred around next years draft class but that would be 2-3 years max. Ottawa was below .500 in 2022, 2017, 2014, 2008, 2007 and 2006. That is six seasons below .500 in over 25 years. I wouldn’t point to Ottawa as a model franchise of sucking for 4-6 years accumulating assets. That would be wrong. If you have solid scouting and strong off ice development training and support, you can develop hockey players. London proved taking an NHL Pro approach was necessary to separate themselves from the pack Two decades ago. Ottawa is proving it now.
The off-ice build is what I am more talking about. That can be done now. It will take two seasons to build a culture. You need a strong captain and leadership from a player perspective that can lead by example and get buy in from the remainder of the team. Work hard during this season and then again in the offseason and with a strong coach, maybe things could start to change rather quickly. Organically. The HARD WAY.
IMO, they should have held firm on this season and let the dice fall where they may. Bring in a solid development team and coaches. Like you said, use their two early picks next year wisely. Build around them. Next year you trade Fimis at the deadline and gain the assets you need to make a push the following year or two. THAT is how to build a winner. Then you are sustainable. You don’t need to “empty your cupboard” adding players either. You already have all the major pieces when it is time to make your run.
Niagara has 23 players on their active roster. Only 9 of them are Niagara draft picks. Ottawa has 24 players on their active roster, 23 of them are their draft picks. The sole player to not be an Ottawa draft pick is probably considered their 24th player. Ottawa went through two sold Championship calibre seasons leading into the Pandemic and yet they still have basically their whole team as home grown. And that after making buyer moveS at each deadline. Hamilton’s playoff roster had 27 players on it last season. 21 were their own draft picks. I’m not sure Niagara are following a blueprint for success.
You lost me with too much fluff.
You can do what I consider the ‘hard way’ and have quite poor teams for 4/6 (four out of six) seasons having large sells along the way as Erie, SSM, Flint, & ‘67s did followed by relatively long stays at the top; or, load up and go then re-load and go multiple times in a similar period as Windsor, Guelph, Hamilton, & Niagara have done.
Please spare me the model franchise crap, there is one 8000+ fans per game team that has maintained marquee status this century.
OMG67
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You are conflating the examples to suggest it is 4-6 seasons. Ottawa sold a few players over two seasons, built a two year contender, lost the following season that would have allowed them to reboot and then had a poor season last year because of the previous lost season. They rebuilt their team with their own draft picks and have more draft picks than the normal compliment by a long shot because they didn’t need to trade much to contend.
I am talking about how to build a model franchise. It doesn’t take 4-6 years to build a model franchise.
If you look at Ottawa as the example because they are more recent than most, they had one bad season in 2017 followed by an average season in 2018. The 2019 playoff roster had 19 Ottawa players and 6 acquired players. They ended up with 106 points. The 2020 team had 22 Ottawa players and 5 acquired. They finished with 101 points in only 62 games. So, one bad season, one average season followed by two Championship calibre seasons. They acquired draft picks along the way that they still have now and didn’t use to acquire players for their two years of making a run.
Patience is a virtue, not a hinderance. The new ownership needed to start by bringing in a GM that has a track record of success. You don’t drop $20mil for an OHL franchise and then run it like a Dollar Store Hiring minimum wage staff. Let the GM bring in an experienced coach, not one with two years under his belt at Tier II.
It is shaping up as another Mickey Mouse organization.
For some reason you apologize for it by trying to justify it. You don’t even try to buy a team. You augment it when necessary. There are NINE drafted players on this team. The amount of capital out the door to acquire the other players is staggering. You don’t trade to become relevant. You work hard and build it from the ground up. They tried to renovate the top floor of a slum building so they could call it a Penthouse but ignored all the floors below it.
Now it is time to do it right. Now. Not next year. Replace your leadership with people that know what they are doing and let them run this team through the deadline. Rescind their Intent to Bid for the Memorial Cup because that is jsut silly money wasted out the door. For the money they are going to spend on that bid, they can pay management salaries for a couple years.
Drop the Puck
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- Apr 28, 2016
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So much easier to blame either the Knights, David Branch or OHL refereeing.
Seems to be the way here in Niagara.
Seems to be the way here in Niagara.
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