NHLPA investigating FORMER Leafs GM Dubas' agent for possible violation

[WTFMAN99]

"Daily Faceoff quoted an anonymous agent who insisted that union rules are quite clear — reps for a company that handles players are prohibited from taking management clients. That is a condition of certification explained to all agents in 2022. Dubas was himself an agent for a brief time."

Uh oh....

Who does the punishment fall on?

The agency? Dubas?

 

[Squiffy]

If, as you proclaim, Dubas “is not under suspicion of having done anything wrong” why do you suppose the NHLPA opened an investigation on him for conflict of interest?

They haven't. That's the point. This is a false statement.

Sweet. You've joined the "let's use the word narrative at all cost" group.

We welcome you Sir.

Not sure what group this is, but do I get like a pen after 5 years or anything?

Under the cba, the players get half the league revenue regardless of agents playing hardball.

When star players squeeze their gm, it only means that the role players make less money.

Yyyyaa..? I concur.

Of course that's their job to maximize pay, but they are working within certain parameters which have to be followed but that they don't seem to care about, as in the 50% rule which they wanted and imho wasn't a very good decision for the players.

If you have a league where 10 teams make all the money, and are bound by franchise charter to support other teams by way of "equalization!" Those 10 teams are paying out more than their share of the 50%,

Bingo

I don't think they "wanted" 50% (we're talking players % of HRR, right?) I mean, they capitulated to it, it's a haircut from the 05 deal, but wanted I don't think is really accurate. Maybe I am missing the angle?

I'm not seeing the connection. The union pushes stars to get as big of a contract as they can, because they want to get the teams league wide in general to come as close to capping out as they can. The best way for them to do that is higher salaries, even if it freezes out the grunts. They'll always get spots fleshing out rosters with contracts that need to slip in to the space remaining.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Who does the punishment fall on?

The agency? Dubas?

Probably the Agency but Dubas was an agent and a GM and should know these rules. It demonstrates incompetence at the very least.

 

[Squiffy]

Who does the punishment fall on?

The agency? Dubas?

I haven't a clue, but not Dubas? The question here is with Wasserman and its agents? Decertify the lot of them from representing NHL players? That's not happening.

Explicitly include language in certification rules regarding management representation rules as pertaining to agents within the same agency, certified or not, going forward seems a good guess? If that's what they desire?

Find that nothing unseemly has occurred and quietly conclude investigation? Also possible.

 

[therealkoho]

They haven't. That's the point. This is a false statement.



Not sure what group this is, but do I get like a pen after 5 years or anything?



Yyyyaa..? I concur.



I don't think they "wanted" 50% (we're talking players % of HRR, right?) I mean, they capitulated to it, it's a haircut from the 05 deal, but wanted I don't think is really accurate. Maybe I am missing the angle?

I'm not seeing the connection. The union pushes stars to get as big of a contract as they can, because they want to get the teams league wide in general to come as close to capping out as they can. The best way for them to do that is higher salaries, even if it freezes out the grunts. They'll always get spots fleshing out rosters with contracts that need to slip in to the space remaining.

They used the term "equal partnership"

Give us half the money sounded just to crass. Lol

 

[WTFMAN99]

Probably the Agency but Dubas was an agent and a GM and should know these rules. It demonstrates incompetence at the very least.

I haven't a clue, but not Dubas? The question here is with Wasserman and its agents? Decertify the lot of them from representing NHL players? That's not happening.

Explicitly include language in certification rules regarding management representation rules as pertaining to agents within the same agency, certified or not, going forward seems a good guess? If that's what they desire?

Find that nothing unseemly has occurred and quietly conclude investigation? Also possible.

Well, definitely need to fine Pittsburgh and strip them of a 1st round pick

/s

 

[Squiffy]

They used the term "equal partnership" Give us half the money sounded so crass. Lol

Equal partnership lol.. the NHL took the union to the cleaners in 05, and them invited them to the woodshed out back in 12/13.

Equal partnership lol.. ya, like being a "team member" at McDonalds.

 

[Stephen]

Equal partnership lol.. the NHL took the union to the cleaners in 05, and them invited them to the woodshed out back in 12/13.

Equal partnership lol.. ya, like being a "team member" at McDonalds.

Yeah the equal partnership thing is a joke when you consider the value in the NHL is locked away in franchise valuations for a static group of owners and corporations while the player pool cycles through. There’s a split in revenue but not in the equity of franchises. But whatever. Billionaires duping millionaires duping paying audiences.

The biggest victims are those of us who have the semi annual privilege of attending a Leaf game like it’s some big league religious experience while our standing room ticket prices go to fund the growth of the game.

 

[ITM]

I think da whole thing is a smear campaign .. clearly Shanny and Dubie had differences of opinion on right course going forward .. both sides to me acted like babies .. it is so bad clearly neither side can even tell da truth .. Dubie with his stupid family angle and Shanny with his "is he in" and smear campaign .. all smoke screens for da truth .. some of us aren't getting fooled with this media garbage feed

I understand your claim, I just don’t understand reasoning behind it. As an example, what about Shanahan’s reasoning (as you put it) re: “is he in” is baseless?

And as for smear campaign, it seems Shanahan had the presser and returned to his typically seldom seen/heard from posture.

 

[3blizzard4]

"Daily Faceoff quoted an anonymous agent who insisted that union rules are quite clear — reps for a company that handles players are prohibited from taking management clients. That is a condition of certification explained to all agents in 2022. Dubas was himself an agent for a brief time."

Uh oh....

Shanny didn't know this for whole seven years Dubas was here? No one raised any issues then?

 

[Menzinger]

I’m kinda wondering if it’s normal for GM’s to even have agents? If you can negotiate professional contracts as your job, why do you need someone taking a percentage on your contact… the whole thing is bizarre.

From what I understand it's fairly common for sports executives in most major leagues to have them.

It's sort of why doctors will go to other doctors when they're sick, or why lawyers have their own lawyers. It can be helpful to have a degree of separation over this stuff to make sure you stay objective

 

[DuklaNation]

View attachment 712619

The comment from inexperience. Representatives playing both sides of the fence is commonplace and not some incredibly remote possibility,

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Shanny didn't know this for whole seven years Dubas was here? No one raised any issues then?

Shanahan specifically said that he was introduced to this agent at the end of the season.

When you watch the press conference, he says the agent contacted him with a counter offer.

Shanahan then went home and "changed his mind" about rehiring Dubas. He then quickly clarified it wasn't about the money.

My theory is he found out who Dubas' agent was, knew it was a conflict of interest, and quickly made the decision to fire Dubas. He used his words very carefully when discussing that agent.

From what I understand it's fairly common for sports executives in most major leagues to have them.

It's sort of why doctors will go to other doctors when they're sick, or why lawyers have their own lawyers. It can be helpful to have a degree of separation over this stuff to make sure you stay objective

O-Dog and the team said there are only 5 agents that deal specifically with coaches. They said Dubas could have gone to one of them, but they implied gm's don't typically get representation.

 

[Stephen]

From what I understand it's fairly common for sports executives in most major leagues to have them.

It's sort of why doctors will go to other doctors when they're sick, or why lawyers have their own lawyers. It can be helpful to have a degree of separation over this stuff to make sure you stay objective

Just relaying what I heard on the radio chatter but apparently there’s a very small group of individual agents who represent front office executives in the NHL to avoid conflict of interest.

The way the contract negotiations broke down after Armstrong came in with the big counter (a standard in golf sponsorship talks but not hockey negotiations) to help with Dubas’ negotiations I think the most likely scenario is a friend came to help but Armstrong doesn’t understand the hockey world. And apparently Dubas didn’t know better.

 

[Squiffy]

Shanahan specifically said that he was introduced to this agent at the end of the season.

When you watch the press conference, he says the agent contacted him with a counter offer.

Shanahan then went home and "changed his mind" about rehiring Dubas. He then quickly clarified it wasn't about the money.

My theory is he found out who Dubas' agent was, knew it was a conflict of interest, and quickly made the decision to fire Dubas. He used his words very carefully when discussing that agent.

Isn't he saying in the presser that he went to Dubas in March after the deadline, told him he'd "seen enough" to want to pursue an extension, at which point Dubas gives Shanny his agents contact because "he didn't want it to be a distraction"?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Isn't he saying in the presser that he went to Dubas in March after the deadline, told him he'd "seen enough" to want to pursue an extension, at which point Dubas gives Shanny his agents contact because "he didn't want it to be a distraction"?

Maybe I have the timeline confused. My understanding is he never talked to the agent until after the season ended.

 

[Kurtz]

From what I understand it's fairly common for sports executives in most major leagues to have them.

It's sort of why doctors will go to other doctors when they're sick, or why lawyers have their own lawyers. It can be helpful to have a degree of separation over this stuff to make sure you stay objective

Doctors and Lawyers are generally specialist fields. You may be say an IP lawyer but if you're getting divorced, you'd want a specialist divorce lawyer to represent you.

That makes perfect sense.

What makes far less sense is having a GM, who is a specialist at hockey contract negotiations, hire an agent who is apparently a specialist in Golf contract negotiations to negotiate his hockey contract for him.

 

[Squiffy]

But does the divorce lawyer who is getting divorced represent themselves, or get one of his/her buddy divorce lawyers to represent them?

 

[Dekes For Days]

If you're not aware, agents who work at the same agency have weekly meetings where they discuss and share information about clients. They all "get on the same page" about their clients, thus leading to huge conflicts of interest

I'm aware how agencies work. Seems you aren't. No, two random agents in entirely different divisions are not engaging in a convoluted, secret, multi-year conspiracy to defraud Leaf fans. There is no conflict of interest.

 

[Kurtz]

But does the divorce lawyer who is getting divorced represent themselves, or get one of his/her buddy divorce lawyers to represent them?

No idea...likely depends on the level of acrimony in the divorce.

Not sure that Doctors and Lawyers are a good comparison regardless - a team of doctors may often have vastly different opinions over the same ailment. That's why folks often go for a second opinion on the more serious stuff.

What's that anecdote about doctors...something along the lines of if you describe your ailments to a surgeon he'll recommend putting you under the knife, if you describe them to an MD he'll prescribe you pills, and if you describe them to a psychiatrist he'll schedule a weekly appointment on his couch.

 

[Petrus]

Who does the punishment fall on?

The agency?

I personally think this is more of an optics issue with Dubas and his Agent as result of poor judgement.

I don’t think anything groundbreaking will come from this investigation. At most they will likely make recommendations to prevent any future conflict of interest.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I understand your claim, I just don’t understand reasoning behind it. As an example, what about Shanahan’s reasoning (as you put it) re: “is he in” is baseless?

And as for smear campaign, it seems Shanahan had the presser and returned to his typically seldom seen/heard from posture.

Clearly Dubie wasn't "in" .. that was my point .. he and Shanny clearly had major differences of opinion .. no one knows what they are yet .. and likely it is some combination of compensation, player roster, drafting, team culture, relationships, etc .. and how did anyone find out who Dubie's agent was????????????????????? .. clearly Shanny was negotiating with him .. and from Shanny's own words he was not happy with how that played out .. it is pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together here .. to me da whole thing is playground stuff .. I would have expected better from Leafs .. divorces are never easy but they can be handled professionally

 

[IPS]

This really is kind of sketchy. Dubas has been life long friends with this agent. This agent was in that firm during the Matthews contract signing. Matthews was given that contract during the season without any real tough negotiations. They sort of just gave him what he wanted.

Darren Ferris said this shortly after the Matthews contract was announced: “That’s probably the best contract in the NHL."

Matthew Tkachuck said that Matthews contract set the bar and changed the contract landscape.

Then there was that athletic article where a whole bunch of anonymous gm's vented their frustration about the Matthews contract. I think it's forgotten just how much the Matthews contract rattled the entire NHL. Friedman said the Matthews contract changed everything. There's this athletic article showing just how important the Matthews contract for rfa's going forward and how much it hurts gm's leverage.

How the Matthews deal shifts the market for the next group of star RFAs

The Matthews contract is a game-changer for players coming out of entry-level contracts. Craig Custance chats with agents and executives to get the impact.

theathletic.com

So this isn't just another contract. We're talking about a GROUNDBREAKING contract that shocked the entire hockey world and changed things forever. And Dubas has a bestie that works as his agent in the same firm that "negotiated" this groundbreaking contract.

I'd also like to point out something strange in the Shanahan press conference. He specifically points out that Dubas let him know who his agent is, and that Shanahan met him for the first time. And then less than 30 seconds later Shanahan said that his opinion on the whole matter changed on a dime. Everyone found it strange. Why did Shanahan go from "Let's sign Dubas as quick as we can" to "We're going in another direction." I don't think it was the "family" stuff. I don't think it was the renegotiation. I think Shanahan new that this new agent/matthews situation was a very VERY bad look.

Would give you a like if I could - great stuff in this post.

People can have their head in the sand all they want but this is some seriously sketchy shit.

What that Matthews contract represented was the first time in the salary cap era where an RFA got UFA level money, and yes it did rock the hockey world.

 

[Petrus]

I'm aware how agencies work. Seems you aren't. No, two random agents in entirely different divisions are not engaging in a convoluted, secret, multi-year conspiracy to defraud Leaf fans. There is no conflict of interest.

It is unlikely there is any conflict but we do not know with absolute certainty if there is no conflict of interest.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

But does the divorce lawyer who is getting divorced represent themselves, or get one of his/her buddy divorce lawyers to represent them?

"A man who represents himself has a fool for a client".

Can't remember who said it.