NHLPA investigating FORMER Leafs GM Dubas' agent for possible violation

[Martin Skoula]

It's just a little too unusual - Kyle "negotiated" for the Core players maximum salary, minimum term, and NMNT clauses which gave these players every advantage while winning nothing for his employer MLSE. WTF? Seriously, who was this guy working for? Certainly not the company who hired him, signed his paycheque, and trusted him to represent their interests.

Dubas was talking to Crosby this week. Guess who else had a 5-year post-ELC deal with an NMC in the 5th year? How long has Crosby been in on it? Is his part time job at Tim’s with MacKinnon actually a money laundering scheme to wash this dark money?

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Relax justice league, it’s an observation, and my opinion at that; it doesn’t require explanation since it’s subjective.

That said, since you seem to be offended, I’ll explain where my comment comes from. Dubas is gone and yet there’s two factions that aren’t moving past it — both sides obsessed with placing their bias on their stance, even when it’s a stretch. This thread has devolved into conspiracy theories simply because one side wants to justify all their hate toward Dubas.

I find it pathetic that people can’t just move on and look toward the future here. Everyone needs to justify their side to such an extent that these forums will carry this bias until everything has settled, and even then, some will still continue on — Lou continues to be mentioned on these forums solely because people want to feel like they’ve been right all along.

To me, this underlying bias ruins all conversation and I stand by stating that there’s a correlation between this type of behaviour and intellect. Like I said, I’ll come back when we’re actually talking about the team and not some fantasy world. As I said at the start, it’s my opinion, there are no facts to be argued here so regardless of your opinion, mine won’t change.

Dubas hasn’t been gone for even a week yet. And now we have the development of an investigation into his agent’s company.

Lou has been gone for five years and yet we still have the DubAnons blaming Lou on a daily basis for Kyle’s inability to win more than one playoff round in five years.

 

[justashadowof]

Relax justice league, it’s an observation, and my opinion at that; it doesn’t require explanation since it’s subjective.

That said, since you seem to be offended, I’ll explain where my comment comes from. Dubas is gone and yet there’s two factions that aren’t moving past it — both sides obsessed with placing their bias on their stance, even when it’s a stretch. This thread has devolved into conspiracy theories simply because one side wants to justify all their hate toward Dubas.

I find it pathetic that people can’t just move on and look toward the future here. Everyone needs to justify their side to such an extent that these forums will carry this bias until everything has settled, and even then, some will still continue on — Lou continues to be mentioned on these forums solely because people want to feel like they’ve been right all along.

To me, this underlying bias ruins all conversation and I stand by stating that there’s a correlation between this type of behaviour and intellect. Like I said, I’ll come back when we’re actually talking about the team and not some fantasy world. As I said at the start, it’s my opinion, there are no facts to be argued here so regardless of your opinion, mine won’t change.

You basically just made the same post only this time with many words not commenting on the topic of the thread only the posters in the thread. Almost like you don't want it discussed.

 

[capfit9]

Dubas broke a rule?

Which one?

The issue in question arises from the certification of NHLPA agents and what they are permitted to do.

Section B’s Item 9 III of the NHLPA’s Regulations Governing Agent Certification - details on prohibited conduct that is subject to discipline - states that agents are prohibited from “representing, providing services to, either directly or indirectly or engaging in or proposing to engage in business ventures with any officer, employee or independent contractor of an NHL Club, other Professional Hockey Club or Canadian Major Junior Hockey Club or any other entity affiliated with any of the foregoing including but not limited to coaches, general managers, scouts and locker room personnel.”

Source: NHL players agents raise concerns over Kyle Dubas and Auston Matthews represented by same agency | TSN

 

[LeafEgo]

Good money says there's probably nothing too much to excited about behind all of this, but it's kind of funny those contracts were so bad that the public and authorities want to make sure they weren't criminal.

 

[Ciao]

The issue in question arises from the certification of NHLPA agents and what they are permitted to do.

Section B’s Item 9 III of the NHLPA’s Regulations Governing Agent Certification - details on prohibited conduct that is subject to discipline - states that agents are prohibited from “representing, providing services to, either directly or indirectly or engaging in or proposing to engage in business ventures with any officer, employee or independent contractor of an NHL Club, other Professional Hockey Club or Canadian Major Junior Hockey Club or any other entity affiliated with any of the foregoing including but not limited to coaches, general managers, scouts and locker room personnel.”

Source: NHL players agents raise concerns over Kyle Dubas and Auston Matthews represented by same agency | TSN

That's not Dubas' problem. He's not subject to any of the NHLPA's regulations.

If his agent were certified, then the PA could have recourse over the certification. However, they can't decertify an uncertified agent.

 

[capfit9]

That's not Dubas' problem. He's not subject to any of the NHLPA's regulations.

If his agent were certified, then the PA could have recourse over the certification. However, they can't decertify an uncertified agent.

a lot of it will depend on what he communicated to the agent hence the investigation, nonetheless, it does not paint him in a good light that he was either oblivious or negligent, allegedly.

 

[Squiffy]

The issue in question arises from the certification of NHLPA agents and what they are permitted to do.

Section B’s Item 9 III of the NHLPA’s Regulations Governing Agent Certification - details on prohibited conduct that is subject to discipline - states that agents are prohibited from “representing, providing services to, either directly or indirectly or engaging in or proposing to engage in business ventures with any officer, employee or independent contractor of an NHL Club, other Professional Hockey Club or Canadian Major Junior Hockey Club or any other entity affiliated with any of the foregoing including but not limited to coaches, general managers, scouts and locker room personnel.”

Source: NHL players agents raise concerns over Kyle Dubas and Auston Matthews represented by same agency | TSN

I mean, it's there in black and white, this Dubas agent isn't certified by the NHLPA and this doesn't apply to him. That's going to be the conclusion reached here. It's not like this guy was presenting himself to MLSE as Mitch Arnstomg from Not Wasserman Sports Agency, neither side evidentally saw a problem here

But..

Hey, lets clean this up here, maybe GM's with agents is a relatively new thing? I don't know, we don't know, we've never heard it before but it must be a thing since other agents seem to be referencing it. If they want to not allow it explicitly make it so, by all means. This Wasserman Group I read represents like 10% of all NHL players, widely respected, not sure I see it as fair to shut out GM's from using their services, they deserve to have good representation too. I mean, every GM would automatically be barred from using any agent from any company in to hockey because somewhere, sometime, of 50 contracts on a pro team, their agent will hail from the same as a players.

What's the answer?

 

[Kurtz]

A partner of one of the biggest agencies in hockey (which he very likely still has a significant ownership stake in) is running the Habs and you’re writing conspiracy theories about a guy who was an agent for like a week a decade ago lol.

You seem to be incredibly confused. There is no conspiracy here, but rather an explanation of the potential conflict of interest in this particular situation. This was not brought up by me, but by several agents and the NHLPA. This is why there's an investigation.

I hope that clears it up.

 

[LeafEgo]

The whole thing doesn't make sense to me - those raising the alarm and the NHLPA investigating doesn't make any sense... though the NHL investigating does if they find collusion has been happening, at the expense of the Toronto Maple Leafs for example.

Plus, I'm not sure Dubas is the one that would get into any actual trouble here... he might take a reputational hit but otherwise I'm not sure. Wasserman probably takes a hit as an agency if they've crossed streams and behaved in a collusive manner. I'm guessing maybe that Armstrong guy isn't all that bright, not being certified by the NHLPA, not really negotiating as typically done...

It feels more like a perfect storm of incompetence and inexperience than a careful conspiracy TBH.

In my experience, COI investigations are not really expecting to unravel collusion and conspiracies, where consequences would be criminal, but to simply enforce infractions, with professional/business consequences.

They probably are actually looking to uncover incompetence, or simply reprimand someone who ignored them because they were annoying, or it gave them an edge in their work.

They're investigated and treated seriously regardless of intent or who might benefit what, for the greater good.

 

[capfit9]

I mean, it's there in black and white, this Dubas agent isn't certified by the NHLPA and this doesn't apply to him. That's going to be the conclusion reached here. It's not like this guy was presenting himself to MLSE as Mitch Arnstomg from Not Wasserman Sports Agency, neither side evidentally saw a problem here

But..

Hey, lets clean this up here, maybe GM's with agents is a relatively new thing? I don't know, we don't know, we've never heard it before but it must be a thing since other agents seem to be referencing it. If they want to not allow it explicitly make it so, by all means. This Wasserman Group I read represents like 10% of all NHL players, widely respected, not sure I see it as fair to shut out GM's from using their services, they deserve to have good representation too. I mean, every GM would automatically be barred from using any agent from any company in to hockey because somewhere, sometime, of 50 contracts on a pro team, their agent will hail from the same as a players.

What's the answer?

then why is the PA investigating it

 

[Squiffy]

then why is the PA investigating it

To make sure no rules have been violated?

I'll amend the statement, imo that's going to be the conclusion here.

 

[therealkoho]

If you're not aware, agents who work at the same agency have weekly meetings where they discuss and share information about clients. They all "get on the same page" about their clients, thus leading to huge conflicts of interest. That is why the NHLPA is investigating.

Another piece of sloppy business by Kyle Dubas. Unsurprising.

Sloppy and it may be just a little sleazy as well.

Just remember Leafers it takes two to tango, and not the first instance come to think of it.

 

[Smif]

Dubas is such an amateur in every way.

Totally unqualified to be working at the professional level.

Not surprised Shanny want's someone with experience after the Dubad experiment.

 

[Donnie740]

How funny would it be to see the NHL and PA make an example out of Dubas and suspend him for a year?

The Dubas Fan Boi Club might have to disband if that happens.

 

[therealkoho]

I don't get why the PA cares. Do they think Matthews is underpaid?

The union happens to think everyone in the league is underpaid.

It's no secret that the association/union actively promotes players and their agents seeking ever larger contracts, no team discounts need apply. Players who appear to be doing so will soon feel the displeasure of their brother members, and other players who use that same agent will be asked quietly to seek new representation.

The money is large and as such the corruption not only exists, but is large as well.

I'm actually wondering if a different agent with a Leafs player filed the complaint, lots of reasons for that.

 

[Squiffy]

How funny would it be to see the NHL and PA make an example out of Dubas and suspend him for a year?

The Dubas Fan Boi Club might have to disband if that happens.

So... much.. wrong.. ugh.. no.. no.. fine..

Dubas.. is not under suspicion of having done anything wrong. There's been no suggestion of that, other then trumped up reaches looking to fit it in to a narrative.

The NHL is not investigating anything.

The PA has no authority to suspend Dubas.

No, I am not a Fan Boi, really good with moving on on GM, looking forward to it.

Please don't ever spell boy boi again, it's ugly lol..

What is the point of the post, really? You can't honestly consider it a likely outcome right, we're just baiting reaction with it.

The union happens to think everyone in the league is underpaid.

It's no secret that the association/union actively promotes players and their agents seeking ever larger contracts, no team discounts need apply. Players who appear to be doing so will soon feel the displeasure of their brother members, and other players who use that same agent will be asked quietly to seek new representation.

The money is large and as such the corruption not only exists, but is large as well.

I'm actually wondering if a different agent with a Leafs player filed the complaint, lots of reasons for that.

You would have a union do other then attempt to maximize restitution to its members?

I mean as a Leaf fan, maybe that's not great for me, fine, but I can't logically expect something else from a union.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas hasn’t been gone for even a week yet. And now we have the development of an investigation into his agent’s company.

Lou has been gone for five years and yet we still have the DubAnons blaming Lou on a daily basis for Kyle’s inability to win more than one playoff round in five years.

Do we? I have not heard that. I know there is an NHLPA investigation into Chris Armstrong. when did expand into one into the entire company?

 

[LaPlante94]

Dubas was talking to Crosby this week. Guess who else had a 5-year post-ELC deal with an NMC in the 5th year? How long has Crosby been in on it? Is his part time job at Tim’s with MacKinnon actually a money laundering scheme to wash this dark money?

You mean the guy who had 2 100 point seasons and was easily gonna have 3 if he played the full season and made the cup finals on his ELC got a 5 year deal for top dollar. That's pretty crazy. I wish we got that. Then that same guy went on to win the cup the next season after signing that deal while we just got more 1st round exits. I wonder if our guy will now sign a 8 year deal at the exact same price he currently makes like Crosby did for his 12 year deal. Lets hope we can get 2 cups out of him by year 5 of that 8 year deal as well.

 

[Kurtz]

There's a quote often attributed to Napoleon and currently known as Hanlon's Razor. It states: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

During his tenure here, I've never seen Dubas do anything malicious - but I've seen plenty of his incompetence - and I think this is the case here.

I don't expect him to receive any formal punishment, but it's more egg on his face, and further reason to doubt his competence.

 

[hfman]

everyone falling for more media propaganda

man they are the most ruthless chicken hawks we've ever seen, this whole Dubas story is being milked for every drop, a mountain out of a molehill only scratches the surface of what the media is making this out to be. They have really really upped their game to compete for those clicks

if this new story about the NHLPA invesitgating Dubas yada yada was legimate in any way, this would have happened 5 years ago, not today lol.

What, they didn't notice this when he started way back? Only today?



there's a motive for everything. Whoever is instigating this whole situation has a motive, and the media also has a motive, which is getting those clicks as mentioned above

 

[binop7]

There's a quote often attributed to Napoleon and currently known as Hanlon's Razor. It states: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

During his tenure here, I've never seen Dubas do anything malicious - but I've seen plenty of his incompetence - and I think this is the case here.

I don't expect him to receive any formal punishment, but it's more egg on his face, and further reason to doubt his competence.

It's almost worst that it's sheer incompetence. Speaks to how unprepared he was for the responsibility of being the GM of the leafs. His presser where he aired his family showed a great deal of naivety as well.

 

[Kurtz]

everyone falling for more media propaganda

man they are the most ruthless chicken hawks we've ever seen, this whole Dubas story is being milked for every drop, a mountain out of a molehill only scratches the surface of what the media is making this out to be. They have really really upped their game to compete for those clicks

if this new story about the NHLPA invesitgating Dubas yada yada was legimate in any way, this would have happened 5 years ago, not today lol.

What, they didn't notice this when he started way back? Only today?



there's a motive for everything. Whoever is instigating this whole situation has a motive, and the media also has a motive, which is getting those clicks as mentioned above

Shanahan only learned about the agent in March - this was a recent hire by Dubas.

 

[Superstar]

It's almost worst that it's sheer incompetence. Speaks to how unprepared he was for the responsibility of being the GM of the leafs. His presser where he aired his family showed a great deal of naivety as well.

Many fans and those who were being honest identified it immediately how soft Dubas made the Leafs as soon as he became the GM...the team had no backbone during the regular season, didn't stick up for each other during the regular season, let alone the playoffs...when old man Jason Spezza became your enforcer, you got a problem.

He built the team based on his incompetence and backwards philosophy, and only made tweaks when he realized it wasn't working. I bet each time the Leafs lost in the first round, he thought to himself where he could find more skill down the line-up, that's why he sacrificed big tougher players like Marchment for Malgin.

 

[binop7]

Many fans and those who were being honest identified it immediately how soft Dubas made the Leafs as soon as he became the GM...the team had no backbone during the regular season, didn't stick up for each other during the regular season, let alone the playoffs...when old man Jason Spezza became your enforcer, you got a problem.

He built the team based on his incompetence and backwards philosophy, and only made tweaks when he realized it wasn't working. I bet each time the Leafs lost in the first round, he thought to himself where he could find more skill down the line-up, that's why he sacrificed big tougher players like Marchment for Malgin.

He also was far too stubborn to stick with Keefe. He tied his horse to Keefe and it started to look like pure favoritism and cronyism