NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[VainGretzky]

No it isn’t. You don’t know what to tell me because you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Hawks, which haven’t been good since Dominique Wilkins, has played to plenty of sell outs the last few seasons. The Braves have been top-5 attendance last few years. The MLS team has literally broken American soccer attendance records. The Falcons are fine. College football is so big here that they moved the hall of fame to downtown Atlanta several years ago. Bad sports town??

Simply too many other major sports for the NHL to compete with ticket sales, it's failed twice already and will again

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Simply too many other major sports for the NHL to compete with ticket sales, it's failed twice already and will again

Ha… that’s a new one. There’s over 6 million people in the metro. Plenty of people to buy tickets.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me thrice... profit?

I'm very happy for the old fans of the Thrashers, as I know how it feels to lose your team and it sucks that they had to go through that, but I'm surprised the NHL wants to try that city a third time when the first two ended so poorly. Well, good luck to everyone. If the NHL has a third team leave there, and break the hearts of fans all over again, f*** them.

What does the NHL have to lose? They get $1 billion right upfront. The only ones at risk are the Atlanta investors, and it is their money being gambled.

Noting also the critical difference of modern expansion draft rules and those of prior ages, which makes new team success much more likely.

 

[MoneyManny]

Hockey is as much an American sport as it is a Canadian sport. Canadian fans just can’t come to grips that the US Is a much larger untapped market, currently Canada cannot support another Canadian franchise.

Canada could easily support a team losing money through their ENTIRE existence that plays in a minor league rink. I'm not sure how you can be shameless enough to post your comment when the Coyotes still exist.

Companies like Disney and Bud Light are good examples of businesses who lost a LOT of feathers trying to seduce "untapped markets" lately. Neglecting actual consumers for a chance at greater growth isn't always the right play.

 

[AKL]

Canada could easily support a team losing money through their ENTIRE existence that plays in a minor league rink. I'm not sure how you can be shameless enough to post your comment when the Coyotes still exist.

If they're losing money they're not being supported

Jets are 6th in the league and can't fill more than 80% of a 15k seat arena

Canadians need to find a new angle

 

[Three On Zero]

Canada could easily support a team losing money through their ENTIRE existence that plays in a minor league rink. I'm not sure how you can be shameless enough to post your comment when the Coyotes still exist.

Companies like Disney and Bud Light are good examples of businesses who lost a LOT of feathers trying to seduce "untapped markets" lately. Neglecting actual consumers for a chance at greater growth isn't always the right play.

Coyotes bring intangibles that other Canadian markets never would

And Canada can’t support a losing franchise, if it could Quebec and Winnipeg would never have left.

 

[Voight]

It's pretty clear from the success of Tampa Bay and Nashville that hockey in a large, non-traditional market can find enough of a foothold to be profitable.

There's a reason the expansion rules are now so favorable. They don't start at the bottom anymore.

Better expansion draft rules did help but IMO the difference maker is the salary cap.

 

[MoneyManny]

Coyotes bring intangibles that other Canadian markets never would

And Canada can’t support a losing franchise, if it could Quebec and Winnipeg would never have left.

Ahh so you're a new fan i see, welcome! Hey so, the Atlanta Trashers were a thing around the beginning of the millenium. They even qualified for the NHL playoffs... once. After nearly AN ENTIRE DECADE of existence, they left this world with no explanation.

And now they're getting ready for round 2, because Bettman could not just ignore the millions of fans in Georgia roaring to have their beloved hockey team back right?

 

[biturbo19]

Hockey is as much an American sport as it is a Canadian sport. Canadian fans just can’t come to grips that the US Is a much larger untapped market, currently Canada cannot support another Canadian franchise.

This is pretty fundamentally untrue. It's taking something that is true as an underlying factor, and misconstruing it as something else.

There are absolutely, unequivocally markets in Canada that could "support" another Canadian franchise.

The actual issue, is that other component you hit on. "Growth". A new completely stable, well supported franchise in Quebec City for example, doesn't really "grow the game" appreciably. Especially not in terms of the TV market. The NHL knows that Canada is effectively a captive audience. There's a large pool of existing hockey fans who, even if they don't have a local team, will still find some other NHL team to cheer for, players to follow, or something that feeds the viewership when it comes time to negotiate those critical TV deals.

A team in Quebec City from a "TV Perspective" is effectively just slicing up the same pie differently. That doesn't appeal at all to Bettman + BoGs because it doesn't make a dent when they're negotiating a new TV deal.

A team in Atlanta might be shaky again, it might even have trouble drawing fans regularly. But the NHL and Board of Governors don't have to really care that much about gate receipts. That's more of an "Atlanta ownership problem".

What everyone else is seeing from a business case...is "New Pie". Every "new fan" brought to the sport is pure growth...and a market like Atlanta (on paper at least) has practically limitless "growth potential" as far as they're concerned. It's also an absolutely gargantuan Television market, and a hugely coveted one for advertisers because everyone's just sitting around at home watching TV in their endless suburbs there. The Atlanta TV market is easily 3 times larger than Quebec City (and that's even being generous and assuming most of the rest of the province outside of Montreal jumps onboard). That's all they see. It's pure $$$ signs and "growth potential".


It's less about a "supporting" market and more about bolstering the TV and general advertising deals.



Although i can't help but wonder if "taking them for granted" isn't part of the downward trend in hockey popularity in Quebec, outside of Montreal. There are certainly other factors there. But it's a concerning trend that might well have been impacted by the constant blowing off of that "rest of Quebec" market by the NHL, despite being serious about the whole thing. Wouldn't be the first time Quebec felt disrespected and tried to ragequit something.

It would be the most unreal irony if the Coyotes relocated here and Matt McConnell became our TV play-by-play guy again.

(To be sure, I want the Coyotes to find a local solution and stay right where they are).

If somehow the Jets Franchise ended up in Atlanta while the Thrashers Franchise ended up in Winnipeg...lmao. My how the turns have tabled. That'd about sum things up.

All their franchise statistics and history and records all mixed up for no good reason.

But nah. It's pretty clear the NHL are committed to finding a way to make that Arizona market work. They also clearly want Atlanta as a fresh new cash infusion with that Expansion money cheque.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Ahh so you're a new fan i see, welcome! Hey so, the Atlanta Trashers were a thing around the beginning of the millenium. They even qualified for the NHL playoffs... once. After nearly AN ENTIRE DECADE of existence, they left this world with no explanation.

And now they're getting ready for round 2, because Bettman could not just ignore the millions of fans in Georgia roaring to have their beloved hockey team back right?

Next, tell him how many posters here just make stuff up! Like how the Thrashers did leave with an explanation. They had terrible owners who immediately admitted they didn't want the team, but had to buy them in order to get the arena and Hawks. And how your hockey utopia in Canada has also had teams move. And tell him about how, over the last couple seasons, the deep south teams are all among the highest attendance!

 

[bigoleterry]

For a number of years, the Thrashers outdrew the Islanders. Does that make sense?

Happy to see them rebound. Things change.

This is the biggest thing for me. The thrashers never won a playoff GAME EVER and yet we were league average in attendance most years.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

No it isn’t. You don’t know what to tell me because you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Hawks, which haven’t been good since Dominique Wilkins, has played to plenty of sell outs the last few seasons. The Braves have been top-5 attendance last few years. The MLS team has literally broken American soccer attendance records. The Falcons are fine. College football is so big here that they moved the hall of fame to downtown Atlanta several years ago. Bad sports town??

not to mention Atlanta is the final stop of the Fedex Cup and effectively hosts 2 pga tour events if you count the Masters

Atlanta is the sporting capital of the South.

The fact nashville and raleigh have teams but Atlanta doesnt is a sickening injustice

 

[bigoleterry]

picked a few random years

2006 Atlanta outdrew Boston, New Jersey, Washington, NYIslanders, St Louis and Chicago.


2003 had more than NJ, NYI, Washington, Chicago, Pittsburgh.



No shit we stopped showing up in 2009/10 when they publicly said they were selling the team and they wouldn’t be allowed to play in Philips Arena

 

[bigoleterry]

No it isn’t. You don’t know what to tell me because you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Hawks, which haven’t been good since Dominique Wilkins, has played to plenty of sell outs the last few seasons. The Braves have been top-5 attendance last few years. The MLS team has literally broken American soccer attendance records. The Falcons are fine. College football is so big here that they moved the hall of fame to downtown Atlanta several years ago. Bad sports town??

This place is filled with boomer takes from 2010 ESPN. Woody Page is furiously typing behind one of these accounts

 

[Bradely]

The National League endlessly courts the southern United States, and now a third time in Atlanta!!!

 

[Essenege]

This is so stupid. Another money pit funded by successful teams gate revenues.

Quebec would be a better market for two reasons.

1) bigger hockey market. Atlanta could be 10M for all I care, still would be a smaller hockey market. Quebec is a bit larger then the Peg if you account for nearby regions outside the metro who’ll be ticket buyers for sure.

2) TV deal. The Canadian TV deal is far, far larger then the US one on a per team basis. Last time around, Quebecor overpaid massively in the hope that a team was coming. The French part of the Canadian deal will be smaller then it would have.been next time around. I guarantee you it’s a bigger impact then whatever impact teams like Phoenix, Atlanta, other have on US tv deal.

Overall Bettman was right about betting on the YS, but he’s overdone it with teams like Phoenix and Florida

 

[cowboy82nd]

And even if they did, what are the chances MLSE lets a TOR2 join the league?

None

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The National League endlessly courts the southern United States, and now a third time in Atlanta!!!

As he should. Four of the top 10 teams for attendance are from the southern US and a 5th has been 100% sold out.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

This is so stupid. Another money pit funded by successful teams gate revenues.

Quebec would be a better market for two reasons.

1) bigger hockey market. Atlanta could be 10M for all I care, still would be a smaller hockey market. Quebec is a bit larger then the Peg if you account for nearby regions outside the metro who’ll be ticket buyers for sure.

2) TV deal. The Canadian TV deal is far, far larger then the US one on a per team basis. Last time around, Quebecor overpaid massively in the hope that a team was coming. The French part of the Canadian deal will be smaller then it would have.been next time around. I guarantee you it’s a bigger impact then whatever impact teams like Phoenix, Atlanta, other have on US tv deal.

Overall Bettman was right about betting on the YS, but he’s overdone it with teams like Phoenix and Florida

1) As far as timing goes, not sure if comparing the city's attendance to Winnipeg right now to prove a point is the best idea.
2) I'm going to guess that adding any city with less than a million people vs. adding the 7th largest TV market in the country would not make more money on the next TV contract.

Florida has been top-10 in attendance the last couple seasons. Again...you need to check up on attendance stats.

 

[nhlfan79]

not to mention Atlanta is the final stop of the Fedex Cup and effectively hosts 2 pga tour events if you count the Masters

Atlanta is the sporting capital of the South.

The fact nashville and raleigh have teams but Atlanta doesnt is a sickening injustice

And USA Soccer just relocated their national headquarters and entire operations to here.

 

[CDN24]

This is so stupid. Another money pit funded by successful teams gate revenues.

Quebec would be a better market for two reasons.

1) bigger hockey market. Atlanta could be 10M for all I care, still would be a smaller hockey market. Quebec is a bit larger then the Peg if you account for nearby regions outside the metro who’ll be ticket buyers for sure.

2) TV deal. The Canadian TV deal is far, far larger then the US one on a per team basis. Last time around, Quebecor overpaid massively in the hope that a team was coming. The French part of the Canadian deal will be smaller then it would have.been next time around. I guarantee you it’s a bigger impact then whatever impact teams like Phoenix, Atlanta, other have on US tv deal.

Overall Bettman was right about betting on the YS, but he’s overdone it with teams like Phoenix and Florida

Atlanta getting a team may put Qc closer to a team.

I think Qc can support a team, I am not sure it is economically viable if they have to pay a $1B expansion fee. Based on the senators valuation at sale expect the next expansion fee to be close to a Billion.

Atlanta has already provided two Cdn franchises - Flames and jets. The best route to a team in Qc maybe another failed expansion to Atlanta that has to move too a new market quickly like the last 2 did.

 

[Craig Button]

Forsyth County was only going to approve the building of the new Arena in this project (called The Gathering) if an NHL team came with it.

Well the county is about to green light the Arena.

Putting 2 and 2 together...

 

[hangman005]

The A's sort of showed up in Vegas uninvited, obtained lukewarm and skeptical interest and relatively modest financial support for a stadium, and even the MLB is doubtful about the ability of their flakey and notoriously cheapskate owner to successfully pull off the move. Had the A's gone elsewhere, the local response would have been somewhere between a sigh of relief and muted celebration since we'd rather have an expansion team with a better owner.

I mean it's highly irresponsible but I'd rather the state and county pay money to build the A's a stadium anywhere but Vegas.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Atlanta getting a team may put Qc closer to a team.

I think Qc can support a team, I am not sure it is economically viable if they have to pay a $1B expansion fee. Based on the senators valuation at sale expect the next expansion fee to be close to a Billion.

Atlanta has already provided two Cdn franchises - Flames and jets. The best route to a team in Qc maybe another failed expansion to Atlanta that has to move too a new market quickly like the last 2 did.

you really think the NHL will let that happen after how hard they have fought for Phoenix,

Atlanta has one additonal advantage over Phoenix- An untapped demographic that I am sure the nhl will make grand overtures to engage as part of expansion into Atlanta

the current NHL is all about growing the game ; Atlanta provides the best avenue to accomplish that goal given its status as “Black Hollywood”
and the Civil Rights Movement’s spiritual home

every ignorant yankee/ Canadian take in here is completely oblivous to this key metric which assures a new NHL team in Atlanta.

I am also certain Anson Carter will be the public figurehead of the new team either as President or GM to help drive this initiative further

 

[MoneyManny]

Next, tell him how many posters here just make stuff up! Like how the Thrashers did leave with an explanation. They had terrible owners who immediately admitted they didn't want the team, but had to buy them in order to get the arena and Hawks. And how your hockey utopia in Canada has also had teams move. And tell him about how, over the last couple seasons, the deep south teams are all among the highest attendance!

Hey was just having fun with the condescending tone the guy i was replying to used, i mean no disrespect lol. I hope it works out for y'all.