NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[KovalchukFistPump]

A picture being worth a thousand words, and not taking any position on the issue myself, here is why they are not particularly concerned with those on the south side of Atlanta, or even city center, having easy access to the stadium.

View attachment 813659

Yes, I know they would want to build it on the North side but the location being discussed is way way north of Doraville from this map. It is in a much less densely populated area.

 

[FlyguyOX]

A picture being worth a thousand words, and not taking any position on the issue myself, here is why they are not particularly concerned with those on the south side of Atlanta, or even city center, having easy access to the stadium.

View attachment 813659

Were the braves more or less successful at the new location as opposed to the old one that was south of downtown?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

A picture being worth a thousand words, and not taking any position on the issue myself, here is why they are not particularly concerned with those on the south side of Atlanta, or even city center, having easy access to the stadium.

View attachment 813659

Well, actual money is worth a million words and the map at post 287 (ticket base of the Braves) is better.

 

[FlyguyOX]

A picture being worth a thousand words, and not taking any position on the issue myself, here is why they are not particularly concerned with those on the south side of Atlanta, or even city center, having easy access to the stadium.

View attachment 813659

I'm sure median household income has nothing to do with it. Lower left red dot is braves. Upper middle is NHL team.

 

[nhlfan79]

Yes, I know they would want to build it on the North side but the location being discussed is way way north of Doraville from this map. It is in a much less densely populated area.

But that's really not true. Especially on the northern half of the arc, Atlanta outside the Perimeter is one contiguous suburb in all directions until you get 20 miles outside the Perimeter, when it finally starts to get ex-urby. It's not like suburb, suburb, drive through undeveloped area, suburb. The planned location is not out in the middle of nowhere by any stretch.

 

[AKL]

I'm sure median household income has nothing to do with it. Lower left red dot is braves. Upper middle is NHL team.

View attachment 813663

I love all these maps you're providing. They're incredibly helpful and interesting (I love maps in general)

 

[FlyguyOX]

I love all these maps you're providing. They're incredibly helpful and interesting (I love maps in general)

I figured it helps folks visualize some of this.

I used this site city-data when figuring out an area I wanted to buy my first home when I was single and younger. Pretty cool site to look at a variety of demographic and crime data

 

[AKL]

I figured it helps folks visualize some of this.

It absolutely does, and it paints a very clear picture of an ownership group that did their homework and wants this potential franchise to succeed.

I used this site city-data when figuring out an area I wanted to buy my first home when I was single and younger. Pretty cool site to look at a variety of demographic and crime data

I do that all the time too. That's what I looked at when I moved to Phoenix. Had like three different websites with maps I was cross referencing with demographic/crime maps, the map of actual homes available, and maps of food/shopping places I knew I'd go to. It's one of the most fun parts of moving to a new city

 

[FlyguyOX]

But that's really not true. Especially on the northern half of the arc, Atlanta outside the Perimeter is one contiguous suburb in all directions until you get 20 miles outside the Perimeter, when it finally starts to get ex-urby. It's not like suburb, suburb, drive through undeveloped area, suburb. The planned location is not out in the middle of nowhere by any stretch.

I don't really blame them for not understanding. It's definitely not your typical city in terms of culture, population, and $ distribution.

It absolutely does, and it paints a very clear picture of an ownership group that did their homework and wants this potential franchise to succeed.



I do that all the time too. That's what I looked at when I moved to Phoenix. Had like three different websites with maps I was cross referencing with demographic/crime maps, the map of actual homes available, and maps of food/shopping places I knew I'd go to. It's one of the most fun parts of moving to a new city

For sure! That first home I bought was walking distance to The Battery and I bought it right before it opened and became such an attraction. I definitely chose well, to say the least.

And now, I'll be one or two exits up from this NHL Arena. Good sports fortune certainly seems to follow me

 

[tarheelhockey]

Agree with a lot, but how is the concept any worse than Raleigh, who has created a "share identity"? I actually think the Atlanta location has WAYYYYY more appeal and things to do (I go to The Halcyon quite frequently for food and drinks, I even workout there) than the area surrounding the Raleigh stadium that just seemed smack dab in chain-restaurant-lidden suburbia. I couldn't find much of anything to do before or after I saw the Flyers play there.

All cities of course being slightly different…

First we should acknowledge that the Hurricanes have really struggled when the team wasn’t competitive, which has been most of the time. We are just now experiencing their first sustained success since relocation 26 years ago. Hopefully that builds some resilience against down years, but historically they have only been a little better than a Florida/Phoenix/Atlanta situation. Just putting this out there because I’m not sure the Canes are really a counter-example to those organizations… they simply had more success on the ice, which helped bond the fanbase to the team.

All that said, Raleigh is an odd metro area as far as “center of gravity” is concerned. Of course the city is more traditionally laid out with a clear downtown, but there’s also a decent sized twin-city in Durham off to the west, and the space between those two cities is where the bulk of the suburban wealth exists.

So, PNC Arena is actually pretty well centered with respect to population and wealth, even if it doesn’t exactly feel that way on the site itself. It’s surrounded by university and government land that has not been developed (but will be soon) so it has that isolated suburban feel. But you’re only like 15 minutes from downtown Raleigh to the east, 15 minutes from downtown Cary to the west, 15 minutes from the highly populated North Raleigh suburbs, and maybe 30-40 minutes to Durham or the satellite towns to the south and east of Raleigh. Pretty much everyone can get there and back in a reasonable timeframe… not counting parking lot gridlock

This was the big argument for keeping PNC and renovating it while finally developing the surrounding area into a multi-use “district” of sorts, as opposed to building a new downtown arena. In a Raleigh context, much like Atlanta, a downtown arena would actually be much less convenient for most fans. And Raleigh has such a small-time downtown that it doesn’t yet have the infrastructure (e.g. transit) to support something like an NHL arena.

Anyway, that’s all a long winded way of saying PNC is in kind of a crappy suburban dead zone for a visitor, but it’s really quite convenient for most of the locals. Arguably, the lack of development around the arena is also a big driver of the tailgating culture which fills the need for pregame food/booze/entertainment, and which has helped forge the fanbase identity over the years.

 

[FlyguyOX]

All cities of course being slightly different…

First we should acknowledge that the Hurricanes have really struggled when the team wasn’t competitive, which has been most of the time. We are just now experiencing their first sustained success since relocation 26 years ago. Hopefully that builds some resilience against down years, but historically they have only been a little better than a Florida/Phoenix/Atlanta situation. Just putting this out there because I’m not sure the Canes are really a counter-example to those organizations… they simply had more success on the ice, which helped bond the fanbase to the team.

All that said, Raleigh is an odd metro area as far as “center of gravity” is concerned. Of course the city is more traditionally laid out with a clear downtown, but there’s also a decent sized twin-city in Durham off to the west, and the space between those two cities is where the bulk of the suburban wealth exists.

So, PNC Arena is actually pretty well centered with respect to population and wealth, even if it doesn’t exactly feel that way on the site itself. It’s surrounded by university and government land that has not been developed (but will be soon) so it has that isolated suburban feel. But you’re only like 15 minutes from downtown Raleigh to the east, 15 minutes from downtown Cary to the west, 15 minutes from the highly populated North Raleigh suburbs, and maybe 30-40 minutes to Durham or the satellite towns to the south and east of Raleigh. Pretty much everyone can get there and back in a reasonable timeframe… not counting parking lot gridlock

This was the big argument for keeping PNC and renovating it while finally developing the surrounding area into a multi-use “district” of sorts, as opposed to building a new downtown arena. In a Raleigh context, much like Atlanta, a downtown arena would actually be much less convenient for most fans. And Raleigh has such a small-time downtown that it doesn’t yet have the infrastructure (e.g. transit) to support something like an NHL arena.

Anyway, that’s all a long winded way of saying PNC is in kind of a crappy suburban for a visitor, but it’s really quite convenient for most of the locals. Arguably, the lack of development around the arena is also a big driver of the tailgating culture which fills the need for pregame food/booze/entertainment, and which has helped forge the fanbase identity over the years.

I was impressed by the tailgating culture, for sure. No doubt the experienced football fans helped translate that into hockey terms haha

 

[GreenHornet]

The Halcyon (casual dining and brewery plus outdoor play area) is a stone's throw from this location and The Avalon (upscale shopping and food) is just one exit down the interstate as well.


Yes, people need to be looking at METRO ATLANTA population as the customers. Not merely Forsyth County.

Well, to nitpick on a couple of points on the first part, Avalon is more like two exits down on Georgia Hwy. 400 (which, as I'm sure you know is not an Interstate, but is Interstate-quality, limited access expressway) than one, and will be more like three once the new exit to McGinnis Ferry Rd. is completed. HOWEVER, your point is still valid.

As to the second statement, you are 100 percent on the money. While I would've preferred the North Point Mall site in Alpharetta proper, that ship has sailed. That said, and as @dj4aces has pointed out, it's only about six miles north of North Point. What is more important is that it is fairly centrally located in that big glob of the area in most of the maps posted in this thread, making it fairly accessible to Cobb and Cherokee counties to the west and Gwinnett and Hall, plus northern Fulton and DeKalb counties to the south and east.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Well, to nitpick on a couple of points on the first part, Avalon is more like two exits down on Georgia Hwy. 400 (which, as I'm sure you know is not an Interstate, but is Interstate-quality, limited access expressway) than one, and will be more like three once the new exit to McGinnis Ferry Rd. is completed. HOWEVER, your point is still valid.

As to the second statement, you are 100 percent on the money. While I would've preferred the North Point Mall site in Alpharetta proper, that ship has sailed. That said, and as @dj4aces has pointed out, it's only about six miles north of North Point. What is more important is that it is fairly centrally located in that big glob of the area in most of the maps posted in this thread, making it fairly accessible to Cobb and Cherokee counties to the west and Gwinnett and Hall, plus northern Fulton and DeKalb counties to the south and east.

The almost equal distance to all of the youth programs and rinks - you almost couldn't have drawn it up any better from that perspective as well. So it's central to metro atlanta (families), in the heart of a ton of money, major commercial developments pretty close by. Not much about the location to dislike from a business standpoint.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I was impressed by the tailgating culture, for sure. No doubt the experienced football fans helped translate that into hockey terms haha

Most certainly! There are folks who basically make tailgating their weekend identity and go all-in with picnic tables and sound systems and such.

 

[NextGoalIsHuge]

/sigh. The years go by but the arguments remain the same.

When I was first following hockey and SJ joined, my buddy wailed about dilution. Ya, he was freaking out about adding a 22nd team. His cries were only louder as Ottawa & TB, closely followed by Florida & Anaheim got on board. You should have heard him when Columbus, Nashville, Atlanta & Minny (second shot. only greed had the North Stars leave for Dallas) joined.

Each time he and a slough of others would decry the expansion to "non-hockey" markets and the "inevitable" watering down of "our league". You can guess what he meant by "our league".
So boring. The game changes whether there are 21 or 32 teams. New markets inspire new players to pick up the game and Team ownership has more to do with a team sucking than most anything else.

I love hockey fans. There aren't as many of us as you might think. I don't care which team you cheer for: If you're into puck, I'd lift a pint w/ you and share the stories of our franchises that only a fan of the team knows.

Adding teams to more cities creates more fans. That just means more peeps for me to enjoy the game with. All of the hand-wringing over made-up dime-store financial analysis and personal biases does far more harm to growing the game than adding 23/46 players to the league.

I, for one, am happy to see Atlanta hockey fans have something to get excited over. Also, I think that given how the NHL has recently approached the expansion drafts, the team will have a better chance to worm their way into the hearts and minds of ATL sports fans.

As for "less chance for each (read: my) team to win the cup" thing...hahahaha. I'm a 'Nucks fan. We could whittle the league down to two teams and I would still not like our odds.

There will still be 16 teams entering the playoff tournament. Those are the only teams with a chance at the cup, anyway. Enjoy the game and embrace new fans.

Final thought, the Thrashers had great unis, too. I'd love to see them back.

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Atlanta can get another chance but they need to figure out the arena situation with Arizona first. Either they stick around or they relocate, that needs to be decided on before they do even more expansion.

However it’s a league run by Gary Bettman and it’s a southern market so this will probably happen while other markets wallow in financial purgatory

 

[StreetHawk]

No surprise that stuff regarding expansion is happening in the background. Don’t think the nhl is going to have another open bid process again. LV round likely the last.

Going into nba cities mostly from this point out. Atl, Hou, Utah,…. So either talking to nba owner which they recently did with smith and SLC or the interested party has to figure out a new arena away from the nba team which is what this Atl bid is doing.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Atlanta can get another chance but they need to figure out the arena situation with Arizona first. Either they stick around or they relocate, that needs to be decided on before they do even more expansion.

However it’s a league run by Gary Bettman and it’s a southern market so this will probably happen while other markets wallow in financial purgatory

Who exactly up north is currently offering a stadium deal and a $1 billion check like Atlanta and Salt Lake City?

 

[Darren McCord]

Atlanta can get another chance but they need to figure out the arena situation with Arizona first. Either they stick around or they relocate, that needs to be decided on before they do even more expansion.

However it’s a league run by Gary Bettman and it’s a southern market so this will probably happen while other markets wallow in financial purgatory

The atlanta stadium might be the solve for the Arizona probelm.

 

[9911]

The atlanta stadium might be the solve for the Arizona probelm.

AZ>SLC and ATL with an expansion team. Keeps the conferences balanced.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Here's some business math.

Canada is tapped out and not growing.

US market is relatively untapped and offers massive growth potential.

Source?

 

[dj4aces]

However it’s a league run by Gary Bettman and it’s a southern market so this will probably happen while other markets wallow in financial purgatory

Bettman might be the commissioner, but the BoG make all the decisions. So if the BoG wills it so, the league will come back to Atlanta, regardless of whichever hypothetical other markets might be "wallowing in financial purgatory". That's why revenue sharing exists, and is approved of by the BoG.

 

[TheKingPin]

Yo!!! A fellow flyers fan in Forsyth what’s up man!! I just moved to Cumming early last year from actually right by the Battery in Cobb. Me and my brother are big flyers fans since the thrashers were taken from us. Im off exit 13 fyi. Me and my brother are definitely getting season tickets for our two families

But yeah I’ve seen a Sabres flag flown around here before. Tons of people aren’t from around here. Youth programs and men’s leagues surprisingly strong.

Haha I feel like I more Flyers gear than around Philly. If you assume a good team like Vegas or Seattle then it will kill. Maybe they will be good before the Flyers! I had season tickets to the Flyers but a new stadium and team sounds a lot more attractive to me. I don’t think people realize how prime of an area it is. Nothing agaisnt the people of Quebec but I think this is a better option.

Would you ideally want a relocated team or a new team? Arizona has some prime talent to start from. I think I’d want a fresh team.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Oh? Why not?

I'd say that Toronto can actually support around 10 NHL teams. Or is Tampere that much more of a hockey town than Toronto? Maybe I should start referring to Tampere as the mecca of hockey.

So imagine 10 teams in Toronto, full sellout arenas. Lots of local rivalries.

Now compare that to 10 random teams in USA in markets where no one cares about hockey, such as Arizona and Atlanta. How is that the superior decision?

Yet, nobody from the Toronto area is coming up with a stadium deal and the check for $1 billion like Salt Lake City and Atlanta.

 

[dj4aces]

Yet, nobody from the Toronto area is coming up with a stadium deal and the check for $1 billion like Salt Lake City and Atlanta.

And even if they did, what are the chances MLSE lets a TOR2 join the league?