NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

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CantHaveTkachev

Jealousy
Nov 30, 2004
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I don't think you can keep using the crutch that Canada is better at hockey than the USA when the USA is doing just as good as Canada at supporting their teams, if not better. The top 7 teams in terms of % capacity of arena filled to start the season were American. There were 11 teams that averaged 100.0% or better, 10 of them were American. Vegas and Seattle, being the two most recent expansion teams, are among those 7-11 teams. Carolina, Dallas, Tampa and Nashville, all southern markets, are among those 7-11 teams.

Hockey is succeeding in southern markets, hockey is succeeding in the US. The only time hockey doesn't succeed is when there's severe dysfunction and/or the team just isn't good on the ice, and that goes for Canada just as much as it does the US.
huh? show me where I said anywhere Canada is "better" than the US at hockey...

I called it a "niche" sport in the US and that's a fact...there is not one city in the US where hockey team is the #1 team (maybe Minny but debatable...possibly Vegas)
yes, there's hardcore hockey fans, but it pails in comparison to the other big 3 leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB)....and the SEC in the south
 

FlyguyOX

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Jun 29, 2018
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The best place to put an arena would have been at Perimeter Mall. But it's not for sale. It also would have been viewed as too far north ~25 years ago. Atlanta is growing fast. You think Atlanta is a sprawl now, wait another 25 years. South Forsyth County will be right in the middle of things.
I was told this development was going to go at NorthPoint Mall as part of a renovation and/or demolishment. Looks like that person was off.
 
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Ezpz

No mad pls
Apr 16, 2013
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Talent pool is already diluted enough when guys like Tinordi have a regular role. There's not enough 20 starting goalies, let alone 36.
 
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dj4aces

An Intricate Piece of Infinity
Dec 17, 2007
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I think a point that is being missed in this thread is that neither Fulton County, The City of Atlanta (Already have an arena), or Cobb County (still miffed about the deal the Braves got) is going to subsidize a new arena, where as Forsyth is willing to... and that is what sets the location.

Let us also note that this is an election year. What looks like a good deal today may be gone with the wind next November. So, this either moves fast or it might not move at all.
If I recall correctly, the group did initially target the corpse of North Point Mall in Alpharetta/Fulton County, but were turned away. I could be mistaken though. For the out-of-towners, that's roughly six miles south of the current proposed location.
 

FlyguyOX

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This is a good post and, I think, very fair to what Atlanta is and isn’t.

Namely, it is not a traditionally-oriented city where everything converges on downtown. “Downtown” as a concept barely exists there, compared to most other cities. Downtown is a half-developed, poorly accessible area that one only goes if forced by business duties, or as an out-of-town tourist. It’s not really all that central to the cultural life of the city, and therefore not the default location for amenities.

I will be transparent and say, I think Atlanta sucks a lot for a city its size. It’s chaotic and poorly planned on every level, largely stemming from being so completely dominated by highways. On a practical level it’s more of a conglomeration of independent suburbs than an actual unified city with an identity and a heart. Living in Marietta or Norcross is only very nominally living “in Atlanta”.

This all makes it really tough to sell people on the idea of season tickets to a downtown arena. And having the arena out in the burbs makes it really tough to connect them with any sense of shared identity. It’s a weird dynamic. I think there’s potential there, and that Atlanta is just as viable as Tampa or Dallas, but it’s not as simple as slapping an arena in the clearly-defined downtown of those cities. This is closer to a Glendale or Ft Lauderdale type of situation where the organization actually needs to bring something marketable to the table if they want to be successful. “It’s hockey, buy our expensive tickets” is not going to get it done, there needs to be an actual competitive team on the ice this time.
Agree with a lot, but how is the concept any worse than Raleigh, who has created a "share identity"? I actually think the Atlanta location has WAYYYYY more appeal and things to do (I go to The Halcyon quite frequently for food and drinks, I even workout there) than the area surrounding the Raleigh stadium that just seemed smack dab in chain-restaurant-lidden suburbia. I couldn't find much of anything to do before or after I saw the Flyers play there.
 

AKL

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huh? show me where I said anywhere Canada is "better" than the US at hockey...

I called it a "niche" sport in the US and that's a fact...there is not one city in the US where hockey team is the #1 team (maybe Minny but debatable...possibly Vegas)
yes, there's hardcore hockey fans, but it pails in comparison to the other big 3 leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB)....and the SEC in the south

And all that is to compare it to Canada and say "see, Canada supports hockey more relative to other sports"

But the fact that there are bigger sports in the US doesn't matter, because within the scope of NHL attendance, the USA is doing just as good as Canada at any given time, and a far bigger factor is the on-ice product.

In terms of expansion and attendance, bringing up that "hockey is a niche sport" in America is entirely irrelevant. It serves no purpose in this discussion other than for Canadians to try to gatekeep hockey from the US.

Because when you get down to the numbers that matter, NHL hockey is succeeding all over the US at an equal level to that of Canada.
 

AtlantaWhaler

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Jul 3, 2009
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I think a point that is being missed in this thread is that neither Fulton County, The City of Atlanta (Already have an arena), or Cobb County (still miffed about the deal the Braves got) is going to subsidize a new arena, where as Forsyth is willing to... and that is what sets the location.

Let us also note that this is an election year. What looks like a good deal today may be gone with the wind next November. So, this either moves fast or it might not move at all.
Cobb County was more pissed at how shady Tim Lee pushed the legislation through without a vote. Once they punished him by costing him his job, nobody has cared at all. The development prints money and is hardly a tax burden.
 

brentashton

Registered User
Jan 21, 2018
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There are too many teams as it is. Talent pool is already stretched so thin. So many noncompetitive bottom feeders every single year...

We used to have a rule for wife regarding her clothes: For every 1 new thing she bought she had to get rid of 2 things she didn't wear anymore.

The NHL should be under the same rule.
I DO NOT want to see Gary Bettman naked.
 

AKL

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Cobb County was more pissed at how shady Tim Lee pushed the legislation through without a vote. Once they punished him by costing him his job, nobody has cared at all. The development prints money and is hardly a tax burden.

Just out of curiosity, again acknowledging I've never been to the Atlanta area and am not familiar with the locations, did they try looking closer to The Battery, or are they trying to develop their own version of it elsewhere? I missed most of the beginning of this topic.
 

#37

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Dec 29, 2004
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Cobb County was more pissed at how shady Tim Lee pushed the legislation through without a vote. Once they punished him by costing him his job, nobody has cared at all. The development prints money and is hardly a tax burden.
I have said they should name a road near the Battery 'Tim Lee Way', then they could have an intersection with a sign pointing to Tim Lee Way or the Highway.
 

CantHaveTkachev

Jealousy
Nov 30, 2004
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And all that is to compare it to Canada and say "see, Canada supports hockey more relative to other sports"
I mean it does...it may offend you but it's the truth...
look at the Sportsnet TV deal compared to the ESPN/TNT deal

But the fact that there are bigger sports in the US doesn't matter, because within the scope of NHL attendance, the USA is doing just as good as Canada at any given time, and a far bigger factor is the on-ice product.
I hope so, the US has 10 times the population of Canada

In terms of expansion and attendance, bringing up that "hockey is a niche sport" in America is entirely irrelevant. It serves no purpose in this discussion other than for Canadians to try to gatekeep hockey from the US.

Because when you get down to the numbers that matter, NHL hockey is succeeding all over the US at an equal level to that of Canada.
Calling it for what it is...a niche sport, is the truth
I never once said it wasn't successful or can't grow FFS

I'm sorry you're so offend with that word
 

AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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I mean it does...it may offend you but it's the truth...
look at the Sportsnet TV deal compared to the ESPN/TNT deal


I hope so, the US has 10 times the population of Canada


Calling it for what it is...a niche sport, is the truth
I never once said it wasn't successful or can't grow FFS

I'm sorry you're so offend with that word

It's not that it's offensive, I already understand hockey isn't the most popular sport here. The point is that hockey not being the most popular sport here is irrelevant to any meaningful conversation.
 

ZDH

Registered User
Mar 6, 2008
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This time it fails again.

But the 4th time boys. That's where it's at.
 

FlyguyOX

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Jun 29, 2018
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Just out of curiosity, again acknowledging I've never been to the Atlanta area and am not familiar with the locations, did they try looking closer to The Battery, or are they trying to develop their own version of it elsewhere? I missed most of the beginning of this topic.
The proposed location is pretty much central to all youth hockey programs. Just google ice rinks in Georgia, I circled the NHL arena location

1706815338791.png
 
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AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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The proposed location is pretty much central to all youth hockey programs. Just google ice rinks in Georgia, I circled the NHL arena location

View attachment 813655

So that was their intention from the start? To kind of build their own version of The Battery in a location that's more central to their target market?
 

FlyguyOX

Registered User
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So that was their intention from the start? To kind of build their own version of The Battery in a location that's more central to their target market?
I can't read their minds but it certainly seems logical to me.
 
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dj4aces

An Intricate Piece of Infinity
Dec 17, 2007
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Just out of curiosity, again acknowledging I've never been to the Atlanta area and am not familiar with the locations, did they try looking closer to The Battery, or are they trying to develop their own version of it elsewhere? I missed most of the beginning of this topic.
A lot of it was covered on the BoH board, I think that topic was started last March, so it's understandable that there's a lot to sift through in that thread either. However, I think it was determined there's no land available near The Battery for a facility like this to be constructed.

So that was their intention from the start? To kind of build their own version of The Battery in a location that's more central to their target market?
But more to this point, I think this is correct. It's where the season ticket holders are, mens league participation is highest, and where youth hockey is played.
 

Three On Zero

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I don't think you can keep using the crutch that Canada is better at hockey than the USA when the USA is doing just as good as Canada at supporting their teams, if not better. The top 7 teams in terms of % capacity of arena filled to start the season were American. There were 11 teams that averaged 100.0% or better, 10 of them were American. Vegas and Seattle, being the two most recent expansion teams, are among those 7-11 teams. Carolina, Dallas, Tampa and Nashville, all southern markets, are among those 7-11 teams.

Hockey is succeeding in southern markets, hockey is succeeding in the US. The only time hockey doesn't succeed is when there's severe dysfunction and/or the team just isn't good on the ice, and that goes for Canada just as much as it does the US.
Hockey is as much an American sport as it is a Canadian sport. Canadian fans just can’t come to grips that the US Is a much larger untapped market, currently Canada cannot support another Canadian franchise.
 

Mike Jones

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Apr 12, 2007
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Calgary

Calgary should return to their roots in Atlanta. It's the only way us Calgary taxpayers are going to recover our investment in the new arena. This past year, alone, our residential tax increase is going to be over 7% and it's only going to go higher. The Flames are a cash suck we can't afford and if they're going to insist on a taxpayer funded arena they have to go.
 
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AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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I can't read their minds but it certainly seems logical to me.

Me too, I just wasn't familiar with the process they've already been through, where they've looked, the roadblocks to any other potential locations, stuff like that. I know this has been in talks for a long time, but I never looked into any details before coming into this thread. Just excited by the prospect of having the Thrashers back.
 

FlyguyOX

Registered User
Jun 29, 2018
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A lot of it was covered on the BoH board, I think that topic was started last March, so it's understandable that there's a lot to sift through in that thread either. However, I think it was determined there's no land available near The Battery for a facility like this to be constructed.


But more to this point, I think this is correct. It's where the season ticket holders are, mens league participation is highest, and where youth hockey is played.
Yeah, there's an F-ton of money in and around Alpharetta, too
 

VivaLasVegas

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Atlanta people, you know your population base better than anyone here, and I know you're probably excited to have a team. But Forsyth County looks like a potential Glendale situation here. I.e. far from lots of people where they might not choose to deal with traffic to make the game.

A picture being worth a thousand words, and not taking any position on the issue myself, here is why they are not particularly concerned with those on the south side of Atlanta, or even city center, having easy access to the stadium.

Atlanta.jpg
 
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