League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Post-Season Edition

[Calicaps]

The NHL is entertainment. The Lightning stunk up the show doing something anyone could see was patently unfair. They embarrassed the league. There will be a price to be paid

well especially because they gloated about it after the fact. the league could have maybe ignored it given all the other stuff it has to fill the news cycle, but now? no way.

 

[Hivemind]

well especially because they gloated about it after the fact. the league could have maybe ignored it given all the other stuff it has to fill the news cycle, but now? no way.

The only people who noticed the Lightning “gloating” via their t-shirts in the parade are the die hard fans who already knew about the salary cap situation. Casual fans aren’t going to be aware of it. The Lightning’s shirts will do nothing to add more public pressure.

 

[Calicaps]

The only people who noticed the Lightning “gloating” via their t-shirts in the parade are the die hard fans who already knew about the salary cap situation. Casual fans aren’t going to be aware of it. The Lightning’s shirts will do nothing to add more public pressure.

LOL. You're cute.

 

[txpd]

well especially because they gloated about it after the fact. the league could have maybe ignored it given all the other stuff it has to fill the news cycle, but now? no way.

yup. I dont understand the taunting

 

[Hivemind]

LOL. You're cute.

Thanks. I know.
Do you have anything of substance to add?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If you didn't have half the board on ignore you'd see they did "cheat", by exploiting a loophole. Even if they didn't break the letter of the rule.

I returned the favor….much nicer around here without the QueenB.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

yup. I dont understand the taunting

Just speculating, but you know how very often every group of friends has their “asshole”, maybe that’s Kucherov?

Otherwise, it’s a lowbrow move for a professional athlete in a team sport IMO.

I’d expect it from Conor McGregor or someone in Pro Wrestling….not NHL hockey.

 

[AussieCapsFan]

LOL - Skinner agrees to waive his no movement clause so Buffalo can protect an extra forward.

If Buffalo think Seattle are going to pick up his 6 year contract at 9 million per they're dreaming.....

 

[Corby78]

The only people who noticed the Lightning “gloating” via their t-shirts in the parade are the die hard fans who already knew about the salary cap situation. Casual fans aren’t going to be aware of it. The Lightning’s shirts will do nothing to add more public pressure.

You don’t thing owners, GMs, league officials didn’t notice? I wouldn’t be surprised if the NHL doesn’t get some “fix it or we are doing this!” Emails. The caps could easily shut down Backstrom and Oshie halfway through the season, use the cap savings to add some players, still get a playoff spot and then bring them back.

 

[Langway]

Just speculating, but you know how very often every group of friends has their “asshole”, maybe that’s Kucherov?

It's not just him, he's just been most vocal. T-shirts were made. His agent amplified a lot of it on social media. Being a sore winner and generally adversarial is just...commonplace.

Nothing will change re: LTIR.

 

[Hivemind]

You don’t thing owners, GMs, league officials didn’t notice? I wouldn’t be surprised if the NHL doesn’t get some “fix it or we are doing this!” Emails. The caps could easily shut down Backstrom and Oshie halfway through the season, use the cap savings to add some players, still get a playoff spot and then bring them back.

Once again, the salary cap is there for cost certainty for the owners. It’s tied to hockey related revenue for that very reason. The “parity” it achieves is not its primary purpose. Tampa’s circumvention didn’t impact that cost certainty, so the owners aren’t going to care.


We’re going to see an “investigation” and then a sternly worded warning memo. Just like when the Caps traded Orpik to Colorado and then brought him back on a $1M deal after the Avs bought him out.

 

[Corby78]

Once again, the salary cap is there for cost certainty for the owners. It’s tied to hockey related revenue for that very reason. The “parity” it achieves is not its primary purpose. Tampa’s circumvention didn’t impact that cost certainty, so the owners aren’t going to care.


We’re going to see an “investigation” and then a sternly worded warning memo. Just like when the Caps traded Orpik to Colorado and then brought him back on a $1M deal after the Avs bought him out.

Your right owners, GMs, staffs, coaches, players don’t care if one team has an advantage. Infact nobody from another team has said anything…..

Ohh wait they have…..

 

[Hivemind]

Your right owners, GMs, staffs, coaches, players don’t care if one team has an advantage. Infact nobody from another team has said anything…..

Ohh wait they have…..

Cool. Let me know when someone who can actually do anything about it or has an opinion that matters in the process says something. (They haven’t).

The CBA defines how the relationship between LTIR and the salary cap works. The current CBA does not expire until 2026. Do you REALLY think someone is going to risk labor unrest by trying to modify the CBA mid-stream? Do you want a lockout over this?

 

[Calicaps]

Once again, the salary cap is there for cost certainty for the owners. It’s tied to hockey related revenue for that very reason. The “parity” it achieves is not its primary purpose. Tampa’s circumvention didn’t impact that cost certainty, so the owners aren’t going to care.


We’re going to see an “investigation” and then a sternly worded warning memo. Just like when the Caps traded Orpik to Colorado and then brought him back on a $1M deal after the Avs bought him out.

Nothing is better for revenue than winning a championship, with advancing in the playoffs coming in second. So yes, owners will object to this, especially those from teams that lost to Tampa in the playoff or that lost out on the playoffs because Tampa was able to ice a better RS roster than they should have.

The Orpik thing had no bearing on the team the Caps iced during their Cup run. It far more accurately fits your interpretation than adding a Conn Smythe candidate in R1G1 and winning a championship largely as a result.

 

[Anahome]

KNOCK OFF THE PERSONAL ATTACKS. THIS IS YOUR FIRST AND FINAL WARNING.



No but I am. You are welcome so long as you are not here to stir up trouble with the regular posters. So far, I'm skeptical.

I apologize if I made the Board think that way. I'm not a poster, but a regular reader since 2017. Analytical stuff posted by Langway and other posters is really enjoyable, and controversial comments by Melkor (Ovechkin Tooth) and maako are interesting as well. Hopefully, me explanation helps to understand my point of view. If I have another opinion that doesn' mean I want to stir up the Board.

 

[Corby78]

Cool. Let me know when someone who can actually do anything about it or has an opinion that matters in the process says something. (They haven’t).

The CBA defines how the relationship between LTIR and the salary cap works. The current CBA does not expire until 2026. Do you REALLY think someone is going to risk labor unrest by trying to modify the CBA mid-stream? Do you want a lockout over this?

So now we need a lockout to fix this? We’re exaggerating a bit aren’t we?
If the owners and players don’t like the loophole the NHL can fix it. We don’t need a new CBA. And I’m not saying it will get fixed I’m saying it should.

 

[Hivemind]

Nothing is better for revenue than winning a championship, with advancing in the playoffs coming in second. So yes, owners will object to this, especially those from teams that lost to Tampa in the playoff or that lost out on the playoffs because Tampa was able to ice a better RS roster than they should have.

The Orpik thing had no bearing on the team the Caps iced during their Cup run. It far more accurately fits your interpretation than adding a Conn Smythe candidate in R1G1 and winning a championship largely as a result.

The revenue boost of winning a Championship is granted to one team per year. No more, no less. The owners are smart enough to realize that. Adjusting these rules doesn’t meaningfully change collective revenue to adjust the total HRR, player escrow, or revenue sharing. It only meaningfully changes the bottom line of one of the 32 teams, and there will always be one team that benefits from that. Moreover, a full 1/3 of the league finished with a roster over the salary cap using LTIR exemptions.

Once again, the mechanisms that define the relationship between the salary cap and LTIR are defined in the CBA. As are the playoff bonuses and the fact the playoffs are uncapped. The CBA that was just extended until 2026. Do you think there’s enough interest to amend a standing CBA among BOTH owners and the players union? Do you think the players want to draw attention to one of the mechanisms in which they can gain extra paychecks above the 50/50 HRR split (thanks to LTIR being guaranteed payment, and owners not caring due to insurance on LTIR contracts)? Especially now that the NHLPA finally got caps on salary escrows?

Do you think the NHL only pays attention to cap circumvention executed by the cup winners?

 

[Hivemind]

So now we need a lockout to fix this? We’re exaggerating a bit aren’t we?
If the owners and players don’t like the loophole the NHL can fix it. We don’t need a new CBA. And I’m not saying it will get fixed I’m saying it should.

They would need to amend the CBA. That requires both the board of governors and the NHLPA, both from the leadership level and general bodies, voting to amend it. It’s not going to happen.

 

[Melkor]

The fact that someone actually believes the league would be interested in punishing the cap circumvention only if you won the cup using it is genuinely hilarious lol. You'd be disappointed if you find out that it's not how that works.

 

[searle]

LOL - Skinner agrees to waive his no movement clause so Buffalo can protect an extra forward.

If Buffalo think Seattle are going to pick up his 6 year contract at 9 million per they're dreaming.....

I think they had 3 key forwards they needed to protect and 2 slots to do it with until he agreed to go unprotected - it's more about him being a team player and limiting the damage the expansion draft will do to the team than actually moving his own contract, though I doubt he'd mind the change of scenery if Seattle did go mad and select him

 

[Calicaps]

Do you think the NHL only pays attention to cap circumvention executed by the cup winners?

How the f*** does what I said translate to “the league only cares about it when you win a cup”? It’s a matter of degrees. Owners spend a fortune to win championships. They do this for their egos and because they make shit-tons of money. So when one franchise cheats to win, they are not going to be happy. And worse still when that franchise gloats about cheating. That cries out to have the loophole closed.

By comparison, the Orpik’s trade and resign gambit didn’t f*** any teams out of cups or playoff berths so it only warranted a sternly worded memo.

in fact, my point is that the league cares about it in both (every) case but some are worse than others.

The fact that someone actually believes the league would be interested in punishing the cap circumvention only if you won the cup using it is genuinely hilarious lol. You'd be disappointed if you find out that it's not how that works.

No one thinks that.

 

[HTFN]

Thanks. I know.
Do you have anything of substance to add?

Anything too good and you'd just ignore list her, so like...

It's kind of a bummer to see you in here arguing against cherry picked content while other people are giving you the substance you want and you've got them ignored already.

 

[Hivemind]

Anything too good and you'd just ignore list her, so like...

It's kind of a bummer to see you in here arguing against cherry picked content while other people are giving you the substance you want and you've got them ignored already.

LOL

The people on my ignore list have done plenty to earn their spots there. I don't just ignore people because I disagree with them. I ignore them because they either spout blatant flamebait/troll takes (like a certain poster named after a Tolkein character, for instance), or because they engage in every conversation in bad faith. I don't think anyone wants to see me go page-after-page-after-page with certain posters around here, as they ignore everything that doesn't fit their narrative and spout open contempt at any evidence or analytics presented. It doesn't make it a rewarding experience for me to post here, and plenty of others don't find the non-stop bickering with those posters fun either. I also know for certain that I'm not alone in my feelings towards those posters, since I've discussed it via PM with multiple others on HFCaps.

It takes more than just disagreements to end up on my ignore list. I haven't agreed a whole lot with Cali or txpd lately, but both are usually attempting to make genuine points in good faith (usually) so it's worth engaging with them.

If there's a particular point that you would like to see me address, feel free to point it out.

How the f*** does what I said translate to “the league only cares about it when you win a cup”?

When you literally say "The Orpik thing had no bearing on the team the Caps iced during their Cup run" and you ALSO have a large portion of your argument resting on one team getting additional revenue from winning the Cup, I think the "translation" there isn't exactly a huge leap. You've based your argument around the Cup this whole time (and continue to do so), so it's easy to mistake your argument for being about who wins the Cup.

It’s a matter of degrees. Owners spend a fortune to win championships. They do this for their egos and because they make shit-tons of money. So when one franchise cheats to win, they are not going to be happy. And worse still when that franchise gloats about cheating. That cries out to have the loophole closed.

Except nobody cheated. They exploited a loophole, sure. But what they did is still legal, has been legal for a long time, and they aren't the only team to exploit that loophole. Hell, they aren't even the only team to win a cup thanks to getting a MVP-caliber player back for the playoffs after using their LTIR money to exceed the cap. The 2015 Blackhawks did this with Patrick Kane (who tied for the playoff lead in points that year). A couple teams raised a bit of a stink about it then, too. But nothing happened.

Fun fact, the team that lost to that 2015 Blackhawks team in the finals? Tampa Bay.

The league did nothing about it then, and they'll do little more than symbolic gestures this time as well. The "gloating" isn't highlighting anything to these owners and GMs that they don't already know. The owners won't risk getting into a CBA pissing match with the NHLPA over this. The players won't want to fix this, because LTIR is one of their ways to get paid in excess of the 50/50 HRR split, and LTIR'd players still want their playoff bonuses.

It's also an exceptionally rare situation. You need an injured superstar and a team that's good enough to still make the playoffs without said superstar for the remainder of the season (or the whole season in the case of Tampa). And by opting for this route, you close off any realistic chance of your LTIR'd star coming back before the playoffs to help you clinch your division or home ice advantage (or even to get into game shape and build chemistry). You aren't going to see teams decide to sideline star players like MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, or Panarin to try and load up beyond the salary cap. As Doug Armstrong said when asked why he didn't load up beyond the cap like the Blackhawks did in 2015 -

“To me, it was black and white because (Steen) wants to come back,” said Armstrong in the piece by Seravalli. “We weren’t going to add a piece better than Alex Steen. If we’ve got eight or nine games left, and he can help us secure home-ice, I’ll take Alex Steen before anybody that got traded at that deadline.” (And that's just Alex Steen, who while at his peak in 2015, is nowhere near the caliber of player the Lightning or Blackhawks sidelined)

So we have an incredibly rare loophole that's difficult to exploit, would require amending the CBA to close, and very little incentive from either the players or the owners to close it. There will be a surface level investigation to placate those who are upset, but unless we start to see some real comments promising action from the heads of the players union or Bill Daly/Gary Bettman there's very little evidence to suggest that anything meaningful will happen.

The LTIRment loophole is far more commonly abused, yet the league has only nibbled around the edges on that one as well. The league has even openly flaunted this one, both with Hossa's inclusion to the HHOF while still under contract and when the league hired Pronger as head of DoPS while he was still under contract with the Flyers (and later Coyotes).

 

[g00n]

Hilarious f***ing irony.

 

[Corby78]

@Hivemind: I think this is where we fundamentally don’t agree. I don’t believe this was just a coincidence or perfect storm. I believe that Tampa was not truthful about the health of their roster. Do I have undeniable proof? Of course not, but it’s how I read the tea leaves. And even if they were just the luckiest team out there, this playoff showed how the rule could be abused. We could easily hide Backstroms salary due to his hip and have him healthy game one. To me this shows it needs to be addressed. Not saying it’s easy or quick, but it needs to be looked at.