League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Post-Season Edition

[searle]

I'm in the camp of "I don't like it but I don't know how they'd change the rules in a way that wouldn't make an injured player a burden".

Any limits on long term IR probably would have had us with some of Kempny's contract still on the table while he's been out.

Yes, he probably took his time a bit coming back, but I still feel like until someone comes up with a specific idea that closes the loophole without boning teams with legit injuries I'd rather there be more flex than less when in comes to injuries Vs cap space

 

[um]

I'm in the camp of "I don't like it but I don't know how they'd change the rules in a way that wouldn't make an injured player a burden".

Any limits on long term IR probably would have had us with some of Kempny's contract still on the table while he's been out.

Yes, he probably took his time a bit coming back, but I still feel like until someone comes up with a specific idea that closes the loophole without boning teams with legit injuries I'd rather there be more flex than less when in comes to injuries Vs cap space

your roster on the ice should not be allowed to exceed the cap. LTIR benefits can remain.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

NHL needs to mirror MLB when it comes to freezing the roster for post season play. For MLB believe that a player had to be on the roster by September 1 in order to participate in post season play. NHL needs to adopt something similar say a week or two after the TDL, i.e. March 15th. Would also consider addressing the black aces as well. NHL roster could only be expanded from 23 players to 26 when the roster is frozen. Cap compliancy will still be required and players either have to be off LTIR by March 15th or they are done for the season and cannot compete in the post season.

 

[Melkor]

Everything should stay the same, that way teams would compete not only on the ice but off the ice too. And awards like GM of the year won't be handed out just for beautiful eyes but for something other guys are not able to see or pull off while not breaking the CBA rules.

 

[txpd]

I'm in the camp of "I don't like it but I don't know how they'd change the rules in a way that wouldn't make an injured player a burden".

Any limits on long term IR probably would have had us with some of Kempny's contract still on the table while he's been out.

Yes, he probably took his time a bit coming back, but I still feel like until someone comes up with a specific idea that closes the loophole without boning teams with legit injuries I'd rather there be more flex than less when in comes to injuries Vs cap space

In the NFL a player placed on IR is out for the season. If they made any player on LTIR after the final game of the season out for the playoffs, you would be covered. What would need to be worked thru would be purging salary cap to make space after the trade deadline. My thought on the surface would be to simply have a deactivated list.

The difference between a $2.5m player and a $9m player is epic enough that it needs to be addressed

 

[kicksavedave]

your roster on the ice should not be allowed to exceed the cap. LTIR benefits can remain.

This exactly. How hard could it be? The idea that "there is no salary cap in the playoffs" is kinda absurd. If a Kucherov can't play all season, he can play in the playoffs, but only as long as he fits under the cap. If you fill up your roster in the RS to the Cap, and then a Kuch comes back, you need to decide who to drop. There either is a cap or there isn't.

 

[kicksavedave]

In the NFL a player placed on IR is out for the season. If they made any player on LTIR after the final game of the season out for the playoffs, you would be covered. What would need to be worked thru would be purging salary cap to make space after the trade deadline. My thought on the surface would be to simply have a deactivated list.

The difference between a $2.5m player and a $9m player is epic enough that it needs to be addressed

The NFL now has short term IR (players can come back) and also NFL IR players still count towards the Cap, so they don't match the NHL's LTIR cap relief.

 

[txpd]

The NFL now has short term IR (players can come back) and also NFL IR players still count towards the Cap, so they don't match the NHL's LTIR cap relief.

As long as Danny owns the .....them, I dont really watch NFL stuff. So I missed that.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The NFL now has short term IR (players can come back) and also NFL IR players still count towards the Cap, so they don't match the NHL's LTIR cap relief.

correct, but those are COVID-related changes correct? Possibly to change back at some point?

NFL, NFLPA likely to keep in place modified IR rules, 16-man practice squads in 2021

Clarifying the 2020 injured reserve/COVID-19 rules - ProFootballTalk

 

[kicksavedave]

correct, but those are COVID-related changes correct? Possibly to change back at some point?

NFL, NFLPA likely to keep in place modified IR rules, 16-man practice squads in 2021

Clarifying the 2020 injured reserve/COVID-19 rules - ProFootballTalk

In 2012 it was 1 player could come back. In 2017 they upped it to 2 players. In 2020 they upped it to 3 players.

But they've also had PUP which always allowed players to come back. But in all cases players on IR or PUP had to fit under the Cap. Their replacements did too. PUP designations are only allowed during preseason. IR can be during the RS.

 

[txpd]

This exactly. How hard could it be? The idea that "there is no salary cap in the playoffs" is kinda absurdt.

There is a practical reason why they dont have a cap in the playoffs. They want participating teams to have enough spare players to ice a complete team. Because you have to be under the cap after the TDL til the end of the regular, the idea is that only minor leaguers that are spare players are the players stretching over the cap. The LTIR rule is there to keep teams in the regular season from getting killed by an injury to a star player. Tampa Bay used the rule to its advantage and changes are needed.

 

[kicksavedave]

There is a practical reason why they dont have a cap in the playoffs. They want participating teams to have enough spare players to ice a complete team. Because you have to be under the cap after the TDL til the end of the regular, the idea is that only minor leaguers that are spare players are the players stretching over the cap. The LTIR rule is there to keep teams in the regular season from getting killed by an injury to a star player. Tampa Bay used the rule to its advantage and changes are needed.

Well, if a player is hurt, they go on IR, their replacement takes their salary spot. When the player comes back, the replacement has to leave. That allows teams to field a complete roster, just not a complete roster of Kucherovs.

The cap applying to PO and RS is simple and fair and allows teams to replace injured players. It just doesn't allow them to keep the replacements AND the injured player at the same time in the POs.

 

[txpd]

Well, if a player is hurt, they go on IR, their replacement takes their salary spot. When the player comes back, the replacement has to leave. That allows teams to field a complete roster, just not a complete roster of Kucherovs.

The cap applying to PO and RS is simple and fair and allows teams to replace injured players. It just doesn't allow them to keep the replacements AND the injured player at the same time in the POs.

Oh sure. I agree. There is not a chance that its remotely the way the rules were created to allow a team to add a $9m player to a full salary cap team for the playoffs. Its a joke. I dont hold that against TB except for their attitude about it

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

In 2012 it was 1 player could come back. In 2017 they upped it to 2 players. In 2020 they upped it to 3 players.

But they've also had PUP which always allowed players to come back. But in all cases players on IR or PUP had to fit under the Cap. Their replacements did too. PUP designations are only allowed during preseason. IR can be during the RS.

more on that…

PUP, IR and NFI - exploring the different designations

The salary cap effectively curbed the abuse of limitless players on IR. However, another problem was created. As stated previously, those on IR often receive full pay for the season (some contracts include split pay, where their salary is reduced if on IR), but are forbidden to dress again for the entire season.

so some player contracts do pay at lower rates if they’re on IR.

 

[Calicaps]

your roster on the ice should not be allowed to exceed the cap. LTIR benefits can remain.

And/or as I suggested before, any player on the roster for the playoffs needs to have played some minimum number of RS games first. So say, the bolts would have had to fit Kuch under the cap for 10 games before the playoffs which would require waving or trading other pieces, or he couldn't play in the postseason.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Curious who came into the lineup for the Bolts all year to fill the ice time void at RW, and who had to sit the postseason as a result of Kucherov returning?

 

[kicksavedave]

Oh sure. I agree. There is not a chance that its remotely the way the rules were created to allow a team to add a $9m player to a full salary cap team for the playoffs. Its a joke. I dont hold that against TB except for their attitude about it

Agreed, they didn't cheat, the followed the rules. The rules just suck is all. But the gloating about it is lame on their part.

 

[g00n]

Agreed, they didn't cheat, the followed the rules. The rules just suck is all. But the gloating about it is lame on their part.

Note no mention of breaking rules in the primary definition. You can "cheat" and not technically break the rules if you're acting in a dishonest or unfair way to gain an advantage.

 

[txpd]

View attachment 453032

Note no mention of breaking rules in the primary definition. You can "cheat" and not technically break the rules if you're acting in a dishonest or unfair way to gain an advantage.

Thats true. In racing they say "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin'"

 

[g00n]

Thats true. In racing they say "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin'"

Dale Hunter agrees

 

[txpd]

Dale Hunter agrees

The NHL is entertainment. The Lightning stunk up the show doing something anyone could see was patently unfair. They embarrassed the league. There will be a price to be paid

 

[kicksavedave]

View attachment 453032

Note no mention of breaking rules in the primary definition. You can "cheat" and not technically break the rules if you're acting in a dishonest or unfair way to gain an advantage.

Semantics, for the win. Fine, they cheated and/but they followed the rules. Better?

 

[g00n]

Semantics, for the win. Fine, they cheated and/but they followed the rules. Better?

Yup. good.

 

[Hivemind]

Tampa didn’t cheat. They exploited a loophole.

Will the loophole be closed? Maybe, but probably not. The board of governors had incentive to close the back-driving contracts loophole since it impacted the real-dollars-owed vs cap hit, thus impacting the final placement of the split of Hockey Related Revenue and how much escrow they got from players. This loophole doesn’t impact their bottom line the same way, so it would take someone on the competition committee leading a personal crusade to close this one.

 

[g00n]

Tampa didn’t cheat. They exploited a loophole.

Will the loophole be closed? Maybe, but probably not. The board of governors had incentive to close the back-driving contracts loophole since it impacted the real-dollars-owed vs cap hit, thus impacting the final placement of the split of Hockey Related Revenue and how much escrow they got from players. This loophole doesn’t impact their bottom line the same way, so it would take someone on the competition committee leading a personal crusade to close this one.

If you didn't have half the board on ignore you'd see they did "cheat", by exploiting a loophole. Even if they didn't break the letter of the rule.