League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Post-Season Edition

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Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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@Hivemind: I think this is where we fundamentally don’t agree. I don’t believe this was just a coincidence or perfect storm. I believe that Tampa was not truthful about the health of their roster. Do I have undeniable proof? Of course not, but it’s how I read the tea leaves. And even if they were just the luckiest team out there, this playoff showed how the rule could be abused. We could easily hide Backstroms salary due to his hip and have him healthy game one. To me this shows it needs to be addressed. Not saying it’s easy or quick, but it needs to be looked at.
Kucherov had hip surgery on December 29, 2020. Are you disputing that?
Or are you disputing his recovery date?

I can buy that he was ready to come back prior to the start of the playoffs, but then you're getting into a murky territory regarding how you define if a player is "injured enough" to continue to qualify for LTIR. Action on that front would have far reaching consequences beyond just this debate, and the union would certainly have grounds to fight against that.
 
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Corby78

65 - 10 - 20
Jan 14, 2014
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Kucherov had hip surgery on December 29, 2020. Are you disputing that?
Or are you disputing his recovery date?

I can buy that he was ready to come back prior to the start of the playoffs, but then you're getting into a murky territory regarding how you define if a player is "injured enough" to continue to qualify for LTIR. Action on that front would have far reaching consequences beyond just this debate, and the union would certainly have grounds to fight against that.
Disputing the recovery, and I agree with the rest of your post
 
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HTFN

Registered User
Feb 8, 2009
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The people on my ignore list have done plenty to earn their spots there. I don't just ignore people because I disagree with them. I ignore them because they either spout blatant flamebait/troll takes (like a certain poster named after a Tolkein character, for instance), or because they engage in every conversation in bad faith. I don't think anyone wants to see me go page-after-page-after-page with certain posters around here, as they ignore everything that doesn't fit their narrative and spout open contempt at any evidence or analytics presented. It doesn't make it a rewarding experience for me to post here, and plenty of others don't find the non-stop bickering with those posters fun either. I also know for certain that I'm not alone in my feelings towards those posters, since I've discussed it via PM with multiple others on HFCaps.

It takes more than just disagreements to end up on my ignore list. I haven't agreed a whole lot with Cali or txpd lately, but both are usually attempting to make genuine points in good faith (usually) so it's worth engaging with them.

If there's a particular point that you would like to see me address, feel free to point it out.
lmfao, get it together. Getting disagreed with by people who believe in themselves sucks from time to time, handle it and stop walking around going "ohhh, no counter point? nobody wants this smoke" when you don't let half the board take you on. It's like you don't fully realize other people do go on reading their posts, and the more they acquit themselves the worse it looks for you. With most of them I'm less inclined to believe that quality posters are playing bad faith games with you, and more inclined to believe that you hit a point where it's easier to say that than it is to be uncomfortable.
 

IafrateOvie34

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May 14, 2009
12,350
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The people on my ignore list have done plenty to earn their spots there. I don't just ignore people because I disagree with them. I ignore them because they either spout blatant flamebait/troll takes (like a certain poster named after a Tolkein character, for instance), or because they engage in every conversation in bad faith. I don't think anyone wants to see me go page-after-page-after-page with certain posters around here, as they ignore everything that doesn't fit their narrative and spout open contempt at any evidence or analytics presented. It doesn't make it a rewarding experience for me to post here, and plenty of others don't find the non-stop bickering with those posters fun either. I also know for certain that I'm not alone in my feelings towards those posters, since I've discussed it via PM with multiple others on HFCaps.

It takes more than just disagreements to end up on my ignore list. I haven't agreed a whole lot with Cali or txpd lately, but both are usually attempting to make genuine points in good faith (usually) so it's worth engaging with them.

If there's a particular point that you would like to see me address, feel free to point it out.



When you literally say "The Orpik thing had no bearing on the team the Caps iced during their Cup run" and you ALSO have a large portion of your argument resting on one team getting additional revenue from winning the Cup, I think the "translation" there isn't exactly a huge leap. You've based your argument around the Cup this whole time (and continue to do so), so it's easy to mistake your argument for being about who wins the Cup.



Except nobody cheated. They exploited a loophole, sure. But what they did is still legal, has been legal for a long time, and they aren't the only team to exploit that loophole. Hell, they aren't even the only team to win a cup thanks to getting a MVP-caliber player back for the playoffs after using their LTIR money to exceed the cap. The 2015 Blackhawks did this with Patrick Kane (who tied for the playoff lead in points that year). A couple teams raised a bit of a stink about it then, too. But nothing happened.

Fun fact, the team that lost to that 2015 Blackhawks team in the finals? Tampa Bay.

The league did nothing about it then, and they'll do little more than symbolic gestures this time as well. The "gloating" isn't highlighting anything to these owners and GMs that they don't already know. The owners won't risk getting into a CBA pissing match with the NHLPA over this. The players won't want to fix this, because LTIR is one of their ways to get paid in excess of the 50/50 HRR split, and LTIR'd players still want their playoff bonuses.

It's also an exceptionally rare situation. You need an injured superstar and a team that's good enough to still make the playoffs without said superstar for the remainder of the season (or the whole season in the case of Tampa). And by opting for this route, you close off any realistic chance of your LTIR'd star coming back before the playoffs to help you clinch your division or home ice advantage (or even to get into game shape and build chemistry). You aren't going to see teams decide to sideline star players like MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, or Panarin to try and load up beyond the salary cap. As Doug Armstrong said when asked why he didn't load up beyond the cap like the Blackhawks did in 2015 -

“To me, it was black and white because (Steen) wants to come back,” said Armstrong in the piece by Seravalli. “We weren’t going to add a piece better than Alex Steen. If we’ve got eight or nine games left, and he can help us secure home-ice, I’ll take Alex Steen before anybody that got traded at that deadline.” (And that's just Alex Steen, who while at his peak in 2015, is nowhere near the caliber of player the Lightning or Blackhawks sidelined)

So we have an incredibly rare loophole that's difficult to exploit, would require amending the CBA to close, and very little incentive from either the players or the owners to close it. There will be a surface level investigation to placate those who are upset, but unless we start to see some real comments promising action from the heads of the players union or Bill Daly/Gary Bettman there's very little evidence to suggest that anything meaningful will happen.

The LTIRment loophole is far more commonly abused, yet the league has only nibbled around the edges on that one as well. The league has even openly flaunted this one, both with Hossa's inclusion to the HHOF while still under contract and when the league hired Pronger as head of DoPS while he was still under contract with the Flyers (and later Coyotes).

I do believe you because if you put people on ignore that you disagree with on hockey style, I for sure would be on it. As a poster and having posted with many members on this board going back to the ESPN forums, I appreciate the different perspectives and opinions of others. One of the things that ruined the ESPN board was lots of trolling by non Caps fans and not respecting other's opinions. I've said my fair share of stupid things, but that is just the emotional hockey fan in me. I grew up in the 80s :). It would be nice to see some old time posters from ESPN boards post on here more, especially those who posted more prospect information.
 
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Ridley Simon

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lmfao, get it together. Getting disagreed with by people who believe in themselves sucks from time to time, handle it and stop walking around going "ohhh, no counter point? nobody wants this smoke" when you don't let half the board take you on. It's like you don't fully realize other people do go on reading their posts, and the more they acquit themselves the worse it looks for you. With most of them I'm less inclined to believe that quality posters are playing bad faith games with you, and more inclined to believe that you hit a point where it's easier to say that than it is to be uncomfortable.
You probably just joined the list. It’s ironic how self assured Queen Bee seems, yet he needs to have 3-4 “other posters” (probably his other user names) agree with him on the topic of who he’s placed on ignore.

“I see”, said the blind man. Classic.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
31,310
15,951
You probably just joined the list. It’s ironic how self assured Queen Bee seems, yet he needs to have 3-4 “other posters” (probably his other user names) agree with him on the topic of who he’s placed on ignore.

“I see”, said the blind man. Classic.

Well he's now admitted they PM each other and obviously that factors into some of these brigade campaigns where they all suddenly chime in to support whoever is churning the thread. But we already knew that.
 

AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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Feb 18, 2012
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District of Champions
Islanders find their way out of the Leddy situation, and Panik at 50% salary isn’t a bad deal. He never was the player we hoped for, but at half the price he’s worth it.
Eh, while I agree the price wasn’t bad there’s not a forward in the lineup from last season I’d sit in favor of Panik. Panik was big and strong and looked the part but was mostly useless except for a stretch where he looked good on the 4th line but then again so did Hagelin when Panik departed. Hopefully Trotz will play him on the top line like he did with Komarov.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
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New Bern, NC
Eh, while I agree the price wasn’t bad there’s not a forward in the lineup from last season I’d sit in favor of Panik. Panik was big and strong and looked the part but was mostly useless except for a stretch where he looked good on the 4th line but then again so did Hagelin when Panik departed. Hopefully Trotz will play him on the top line like he did with Komarov.

IIRC Hagelin Dowd and Hathaway were a line all season. Panik played on the 4th line with Dowd the season before but the roles of the 3rd and 4th lines that season were very different than this past one.
 

AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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IIRC Hagelin Dowd and Hathaway were a line all season. Panik played on the 4th line with Dowd the season before but the roles of the 3rd and 4th lines that season were very different than this past one.
That's more or less what I meant. I can't remember but I think Panik got a shot at keeping his job this year because he finished strong last year but he was not good so he was replaced. Hags Dowd and Hathaway were the 4th line for the overwhelming majority of this year, if not all of last year.
 

AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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Feb 18, 2012
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This Sharks vs Jets / NWO vs WCW / [insert other terribly manufactured faction battle] garbage where we have Team A HFCaps vs Team B HFCaps needs to stop. Some of you are driving away posters who want to post valuable content because you can't play nice in the sandbox with others. This board is very lax, especially compared to others or to the mains, in terms of handing out warnings, infractions, thread bans, etc but this place has too frequently become by and large unreadable so that's going to change if things don't change. And PMs can be reported for violating site rules as well.
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
33,007
10,227


3pm. eastern trade freeze today before protection lists are submitted at 5.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
14,222
15,859


3pm. eastern trade freeze today before protection lists are submitted at 5.


The Blues are also considering leaving Vince Dunn exposed, which seems questionable to me. I guess they committed to Faulk but there’s no need for them to lose a young talent for free. They need to get a good return for Dunn in a trade, or pay Seattle to not select him.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
14,222
15,859
Things are starting to happen:



Evolving Hockey pretty much nailed this contract: their model predicted 8 years at $8.539 million AAV.
 
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Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
33,007
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PIT trades McCann to TOR for Hallander and a seventh. Really valued him that little eh? Plus whatever else they'll lose. Weird one, even if there's value in the opened cap space.



Holy smokes.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
14,222
15,859
Ellis for Philippe Myers and Nolan Patrick? Flyers getting much better with this trade.

Surprised the Penguins didn't get better value out of McCann either, though I imagine they'll be active in replacing him.
 
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